J
japhy
Guest
Yes, pages 198-199.
- Status
F
FAB
Guest
It’s to bad, that out of this document, you come away with only this one quote. He speaks of the exhuberance of the liturgy and works out to balance out the liturgy as a work of art and as an approiate worship of God. Although I didn’t have time to read the document word for word, the warning about applause seem to be what I previously indicated, what is done in the liturgy should always be for the greater Glory of God and not for an individual ego, or it does only become a performance.To which I fully agree.
Peace,
FAB
S
Seatuck
Guest
Thanks
S
snhs
Guest
Would you have preferred me to quote the whole book? I’m afraid it would have taken a while to type, not to mention possibly violating copyright laws.
But perhaps I’m being unfair, can you cite any part of the book, or indeed any of his other writings where Pope Benedict has given approval for applauding for “human achievement” during the Liturgy?
This is the second or third attempt you’ve made at rationalising away the Pope’s statement. The Pope used the word “Whenever” as in any time when applause breaks out for human achievement, not ‘whenever applause breaks out for human achievement, except when that applause for human achievement is not generated for an individual ego or a performance’ as you are trying to maintain.
Just for clarity have you decided to retract your earlier position that “showing approval for anothers accoplishment, or joy brings us closer to that fullfilment”? That is exactly what the Pope tells us “is a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment” after all.
F
FAB
Guest
Not to be rude, but this just not worth continuing. The book was written when Benidict was a Cardinal, although an imporpartant and impressive document, it doesn’t rise to the level of a Papal letter. It did not set doctrine. There is much to draw from the document on the liturgy and perhaps he will institute some of it as pope, but not without consulation with his fellow bishops. Showing others approval is important, I still stand by it, making certain the liturgy is not entertainment, also very important, I agree. we’ll have to let it stand at that. Seems to be such a little thing to get upset about.
Peace,
FAB
D
Digitonomy
Guest
When I quickly scanned this forum, I thought I saw the title “Clapping: Decisive Sacrament in End-Times” 
How do you square this with the instruction to applaud at an ordination mass?
J
japhy
Guest
From what I have heard, the rubrics actually call for the bishop to ask the people to show their assent to God’s selection of those men to the priesthood (by their applause).When I quickly scanned this forum, I thought I saw the title “Clapping: Decisive Sacrament in End-Times”
S
snhs
Guest
You know these tactics really would be laughable if it weren’t for the fact they are so incredibly predictable. Firstly you question the context, then make a blatant and horribly transparent attempt to misinterpret it so it fits your view on the subject. Once those have been dealt with you make a claim that his position has been misrepresented through an insufficiently lengthy quotation, despite the fact you are unable to provide any documentary evidence to support it, and persist in the same willfully flawed misinterpretation of what he has actually said. Then when those have also been answered you simply dismiss it because it’s not an infallible proclamation made in his Pontificate while persisting in the delusion that it somehow backs up your view on the subject. In case it hasn’t occurred to you the Pope is the same person he was when he was a Cardinal. All of his previous writings didn’t suddenly become redundant upon the announcement “Habemus Papam”, and in the absence of more up to date writings on this topic we can take it to be the view of the Pope.
The Pope considered it sufficient to be “a sure sign that the essence of the liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment”, maybe you would like to trivialise that, after all it is such a “little thing” as you put it?
I have the same understanding of it as Japhy.
D
Digitonomy
Guest
I’ll grant that is not technically at odds with what the cardinal said. However, it’s such a fine distinction between this and other occasions of applause that few will see the subtle difference.
One could easily argue that he is applauding to show his assent to God’s grace that has allowed the priest to be promoted to another parish, or that he is showing his assent to God’s gift of remarkable voices and singing ability demonstrated in the last choir piece.
- Status