Clarification on pre-Vatican II Fasting

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Hello. For this Lent, I have decided to fast “pre-Vatican II” style. My understanding is that every day (except Holy Days and Sundays) are days of fast. I am allowed to eat one meal, and two snacks that together are not equal to or greater than the meal. The main meal may contain meat (unless it is Friday, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday (we’re past that), or Holy Saturday).

Am I missing something?

Thank you.

God bless. :blessyou:
 
How is this any different from the present regulations on fasting? 🤷
 
It’s the bit about fasting every day except holy days and Sundays that’s different.
Again, how is this any different? We are still obligated to fast every day except Sunday and holy days, which are solemn feasts that allow for dispensation from fasting, such as St. Joseph, March 19.
 
Again, how is this any different? We are still obligated to fast every day except Sunday and holy days, which are solemn feasts that allow for dispensation from fasting, such as St. Joseph, March 19.
I do not know where you are getting this. Maybe you live in a different country, but in the United States, one only has to fast on Good Friday and Ash Wednesday, and abstain on all Fridays (unless it’s a Holy Day).

Source: usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/lent/catholic-information-on-lenten-fast-and-abstinence.cfm
 
I do not know where you are getting this. Maybe you live in a different country, but in the United States, one only has to -]fast/-] ABSTAIN on Good Friday and Ash Wednesday, and abstain on all Fridays (unless it’s a Holy Day).

Source: usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/lent/catholic-information-on-lenten-fast-and-abstinence.cfm
From your source:
For members of the Latin Catholic Church, the norms on fasting are obligatory from age 18 until age 59. When fasting, a person is permitted to eat one full meal. Two smaller meals may also be taken, but not to equal a full meal. The norms concerning abstinence from meat are binding upon members of the Latin Catholic Church from age 14 onwards.
Disclaimer: The regulations may have changed from daily fasting in recent years, but I am not bound since I am over 59 years old, so I have not been obligated to fast, even though I do fast on Ash Wed. and Good Friday. I apologize if this is so.
 
I apologize, bben. Since I am over 59 and have not been obligated to fast, I was not aware of the relaxation of this requirement to fast daily during lent. I think you are correct. However, I still enter the spirit of lent with fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, and have begun the traditional practice once again this year, as you have, doing so as far as I am able.
 
Sirach2;11780337**:
I apologize, bben
. Since I am over 59 and have not been obligated to fast, I was not aware of the relaxation of this requirement to fast daily during lent. I think you are correct. However, I still enter the spirit of lent with fasting on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, and have begun the traditional practice once again this year, as you have, doing so as far as I am able.

You’re fine. 👍
 
I thought that the pre Vat II fast was also a fast from meat for 40 days.
 
I thought that the pre Vat II fast was also a fast from meat for 40 days.
At the time, the United States had an indult, allowing Catholics to eat meat at their one, main meal during Lent (unless it was a Friday, etc.).
 
Hello. For this Lent, I have decided to fast “pre-Vatican II” style. My understanding is that every day (except Holy Days and Sundays) are days of fast. I am allowed to eat one meal, and two snacks that together are not equal to or greater than the meal. The main meal may contain meat (unless it is Friday, Good Friday, Ash Wednesday (we’re past that), or Holy Saturday).

Am I missing something?

Thank you.

God bless. :blessyou:
Aha, thought the fast was everyday during Lent but was informed I was wrong. So it was pre-Vatican II, thought my childhood memories were really askew. God bless you in your endeavor. 👍
 
Aha, thought the fast was everyday during Lent but was informed I was wrong. So it was pre-Vatican II, thought my childhood memories were really askew. God bless you in your endeavor. 👍
I’m not sure exactly when the relaxation was introduced, but I seriously doubt it was as far back as Vatican II, which would make it in the 1960’s. AFAIK, it seems to have been introduced with the new Canon law in 1983. Anyone know for sure?

In this thread in Liturgy & Sacraments, some are talking about this as though the daily obligation is still in force regarding fasting daily. So confusing for many!
 
I’m not sure exactly when the relaxation was introduced, but I seriously doubt it was as far back as Vatican II, which would make it in the 1960’s. AFAIK, it seems to have been introduced with the new Canon law in 1983. Anyone know for sure?

In this thread in Liturgy & Sacraments, some are talking about this as though the daily obligation is still in force regarding fasting daily. So confusing for many!
  1. Canon Law 1917 Canon 1252.
    § 1. The law of abstinence alone is to be observed on all Fridays.
    § 2. The law of abstinence and fast together is to be observed on Ash Wednesday, the Fridays and Saturdays of Lent, the Ember days [all day], and on the Vigils of Pentecost, the Assumption, All Saints, and the Nativity.
    § 3. The law of fast alone is to be observed on the other days of Lent.
    § 4. On Sundays and days of obligation the law ceases except on a feast of obligation during Lent; and the vigils are not anticipated; likewise the law ceases on Holy Saturday at noon.
Ember Days per Pope Gregory VII were Wednesday, Friday, and Saturday after each of these:
  • Saint Lucia 13 December
  • Ash Wednesday
  • Pentecost
  • Exaltation of the Cross 14 September
newadvent.org/cathen/05399b.htm
Vatican II: 11 October 1962–8 December 1965
  1. Then came February 17, 1966 Apostolic Constitution *Paenitemini *-- “These prescriptions which, by way of exception, are promulgated by means of L’Osservatore Romano, become effective on Ash Wednesday of this year, that is to say on the 23rd of the present month.”
    vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19660217_paenitemini_en.html
Excerpt:2. The prescriptions of ecclesiastical law regarding penitence are totally reorganized according to the following norms:

II. 1. The time of Lent preserves its penitential character. The days of penitence to be observed under obligation throughout the Church are all Fridays and Ash Wednesday, that is to say the first days of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent), according to the diversity of the rites. Their substantial observance binds gravely.

II. 2. Apart from the faculties referred to in VI and VIII regarding the manner of fulfilling the precept of penitence on such days, abstinence is to be observed on every Friday which does not fall on a day of obligation, while abstinence and fast is to be observed on Ash Wednesday or, according to the various practices of the rites, on the first day of “Grande Quaresima” (Great Lent) and on Good Friday.

III. 1. The law of abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, the products of milk or condiments made of animal fat.

III. 2. The law of fasting allows only one full meal a day, but does not prohibit taking some food in the morning and evening, observing—as far as quantity and quality are concerned—approved local custom.

IV. To the law of abstinence those are bound who have completed their 14th year of age. To the law of fast those of the faithful are bound who have completed their 21st year and up until the beginning of their 60th year.

As regards those of a lesser age, pastors of souls and parents should see to it with particular care that they are educated to a true sense of penitence.
3. Then came Canon Law 1983:Canon 1250.
The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent. Canon 1251. Abstinence from meat or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and Fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

Canon 1252.
The law of abstinence binds those who have completed their fourteenth year. The law of fasting binds those who have attained their majority, until the beginning of their sixtieth year. Pastors of souls and parents are to ensure that even those who by reason of their age are not bound by the law of fasting and abstinence, are taught the true meaning of penance.

Canon 1253.
The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.
 
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Vico:
Canon 1253.
The Episcopal Conference can determine more particular ways in which fasting and abstinence are to be observed. In place of abstinence or fasting it can substitute, in whole or in part, other forms of penance, especially works of charity and exercises of piety.
Arrgh…What is the Episcopal Conference’s determination? My diocesan website simply says this, but nothing at all about the “daily” requirement to fast:
• **Fasting: **Catholics in the United States, from the day after their 18th birthday until the day after their 59th birthday, are obliged to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.
Church law allows for only one full meal a day, but does not prohibit the taking of some food in the morning and evening. The combined quantity of the two meals should not exceed the quantity eaten at the full meal. The drinking of ordinary liquids does not break the fast. Note: People taking medication or with health concerns should follow their doctor’s advice on fasting.

Catholics are also reminded they should fast from solid food for one hour before receiving the Eucharist.
 
Arrgh…What is the Episcopal Conference’s determination? My diocesan website simply says this, but nothing at all about the “daily” requirement to fast:
Fast and abstain days are now Ash Wednesday, and Good Friday. Simple abstainance from meat, during Lent, is now obligatory on each Friday.

USCCB:
12. Wherefore, we ask, urgently and prayerfully, that we, as people of God, make of the entire Lenten Season a period of special penitential observance. Following the instructions of the Holy See, we declare that the obligation both to fast and to abstain from meat, an obligation observed under a more strict formality by our fathers in the faith, still binds on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday. No Catholic Christian will lightly excuse himself from so hallowed an obligation on the Wednesday which solemnly opens the Lenten season and on that Friday called “Good” because on that day Christ suffered in the flesh and died for our sins.
  1. In keeping with the letter and spirit of Pope Paul’s Constitution Poenitemini, we preserved for our dioceses the tradition of abstinence from meat on each of the Fridays of Lent, confident that no Catholic Christian will lightly hold himself excused from this penitential practice.
    usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence.cfm
    **
Canon 1253 - Observance of Fast and Abstinence **
Complementary Norm: Norms II and IV of Paenitemini (February 17, 1966) are almost identical to the canons cited. The November 18, 1966 norms of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops on penitential observance for the Liturgical Year continue in force since they are law and are not contrary to the Code (canon 6).

Approved: Administrative Committee, September 1983

Promulgated: Memorandum to All Bishops, October 21, 1983

Amended: “… the age of fasting is from the completion of the twenty-first year to the beginning of the sixtieth” (Paenitemini, norm IV) is amended to read “‘… the age of fasting is from the completion of the eighteenth year to the beginning of the sixtieth’ in accord with canon 97.”

Promulgated: Memorandum to All Diocesan Bishops, February 29, 1984

(See On Penance and Abstinence, Pastoral Statement of the National Conference of Catholic Bishops, November 18, 1966)

usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/canon-law/complementary-norms/canons-1252-and-1253-observance-of-fast-and-abstinence.cfm
 
Thanks, Vico.

For the life of me, I cannot remember having fasted for several years now, even prior to becoming 59. So I must have been familiar with the new regulations, but my memory is not cooperating with me in this regard. :o I would never have disregarded the obligation to fast.
 
At the time, the United States had an indult, allowing Catholics to eat meat at their one, main meal during Lent (unless it was a Friday, etc.).
Yes, those days were called semi-abstinence and indicated with a half of a fish on some of the wall calendars. Fridays and Ash Wednesday had a full fish. 🙂
 
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