Clarification on sunday mass and vigil for days of obligation

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buc_fan33 said:
I just want to share one thing as it always comes up in relation to this question. TECHNICALLY, yes, “any Mass in any Catholic rite” satisfies the obligation. And we’re given the standard, “You could go to a funeral Mass on Sunday and it would count for your obligation.” Fine. All well and good. (As an aside, if you know a priest who has so few Masses that he has time to celebrate an additional funeral liturgy on Sunday, please, by all means, send him my way. But, I digress…)

The readings don’t matter. True enough. But, I would argue that they DO matter. They don’t matter in the sense of meeting the obligation, but our faith is more than just following a bunch of obligations and rules. It’s about following the Person of Jesus Christ, becoming His disciple, entering into the entire mystery of His life, death, and resurrection.

So, what’s the point? The point is that the faithful have an obligation to go to Mass on the 4th Sunday of Advent AND on Christmas. While technically, you could go to two Christmas Masses (say, 5:00 Sunday and 10:00 P.M. Sunday) and meet both of your obligations, such an attitude, short of absolute necessity, seems to me to reek of legalism. Such a person, however well intentioned, will simply not have entered into the mystery of the 4th Sunday of Advent. That person will have met his or her obligation, but neglected the more serious aspect of discipleship…entering into the mystery.

Go to Mass Saturday evening or Sunday morning. It isn’t going to kill you. And if it does, what a great way to go!
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Yes.

I sometimes try to clarify that there is a canonical obligation to attend Mass and then there is a spiritual/moral obligation. Satisfying the first does not always satisfy the second.
 
Actually, Mary Mother of God is a day of obligation. It’s just that, in some feasts, the obligation is waived because of them falling on a monday in a calendar year.
 
ok, didn’t really want to get in to this, but I don’t live alone. I live with people who can make certain things very difficult as far as when they want to do things.

so for scheduling purposes, I wanted to know all the options available. I realize some scenarios are obviously better than others, but I’d rather be aware and not commit mortal sin on Christmas day, if I can avoid it
 
Angel honey, you do whatever you are able. We know both your mobility and parental challenges, and God does too. Particularly on a holiday when your regular transportation may be difficult or unavailable and public transportation running on holiday schedule.

If you are UNABLE to attend mass twice, there is no obligation. If you are able, great.

People are going off on tangents without knowing your full situation. Go to whatever masses you can on those two weekends, and do not be troubled about what you are not able to do. Be at peace, you are not sinning!!
 
Agreed. I’m writing in generalities. The specifics of a given situation could well change the analysis, as it sounds is the case here. 1ke is correct.
 
1ke my priest says attending the anticipatory Christmas mass after vespers hour and then again Christmas day is akin to attending Mass twice on Christmas and failing to fulfill Sunday advent 4 obligation. He pointed out that no single Mass can fulfill two obligations and that the mass and obligation are directly tied to the Collect, intentions, prayer over the offerings, preface, and prayer after communion not to mention the readings which are intimately tied with each Sunday Mass.

I believe my bishop told me this years ago as well.
 
Here it is in a nutshell.
Q: This year the 4th Sunday of Advent (December 23rd/24th) comes right before Christmas. Do we have to come to Mass twice?
A: Yes. This is on Jesus’ gift list this year.
Q: How can we fulfill our Holy Day obligations?
A: We have five options. Come to Mass:
(1) Saturday PM & Sunday PM (Christmas Eve)
(2) Saturday PM & Monday AM (Christmas Day)
(3) Sunday PM & Monday AM
(4) Sunday AM & Sunday PM
(5) Sunday AM & Monday AM
Q: Will the Solemnity of Mary the Mother of God also be a Holy Day of Obligation?
A: No. New Year’s Day is not a Holy Day of Obligation in 2018. (Because it falls on Monday in 2018)
 
Yes, but Option 3 (or Option 6 which isn’t listed…Sunday PM and Sunday PM back to back) meets the LETTER of the law, but fails to meet the SPIRIT of the law. Again, acknowledging that I’m answering in GENERAL and not to the specifics of the OP’s case, all things being equal, we need to take into account BOTH the canonical obligation, and the spiritual/moral obligation.

The faithful have the obligation to assist at Mass on the 4th Sunday of Advent. Period. Now, in extenuating circumstances, as it sounds like the OP may be dealing with, does it suffice to satisfy the letter of the law if those circumstances prevent one from satisfying the spirit of the law? Yes. Absolutely. Circumstances can even remove an obligation entirely. E.g. first responders, the elderly, the sick, if you are dealing with a snowstorm, etcetera.

But, again, all things being, the Church (and more importantly Jesus) want us to grow as disciples. Disciples aren’t just looking to check off a box. Rather, disciples want to live as Jesus lived. That means going to Mass on the 4th Sunday of Advent. Might that cause some hardship for people who are accustomed to going Sunday evening? Yes, certainly. But, is it worth it to enter into the liturgy of the 4th Sunday of Advent? Yes! Because that liturgy continues the preparation of the heart to receive all that the Lord desires to give us at the great feast of Christmas.

Going to two Christmas Masses may meet the letter of the law. But, ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL it does not meet the moral obligations on the faithful. My strong advice…if you can get to Mass Saturday evening or Sunday morning, then do so.
 
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One more thing…The Solemnity of Mary, the Mother of God, is not a Holy Day of Obligation in the Dioceses of the United States due to falling on a Monday. However, it might be in other parts of the world. Each bishop’s conference sets its own HDOs.
 
deacon3b said:
1ke my priest says attending the anticipatory Christmas mass after vespers hour and then again Christmas day is akin to attending Mass twice on Christmas and failing to fulfill Sunday advent 4 obligation.
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Your priest is incorrect.
deacon3b said:
He pointed out that no single Mass can fulfill two obligations
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That is correct. However it is not a single mass it is two masses.
deacon3b said:
the mass and obligation are directly tied to the Collect, intentions, prayer over the offerings, preface, and prayer after communion not to mention the readings which are intimately tied with each Sunday Mass.
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It is here that he errs, entirely.
 
Um, some parishes have Sunday evening Masses. We have some 5:30 and 6:30 PM Masses every Sunday in our city. So, if they are referring to Sunday Masses on Sunday evening (and not Christmas Vigil Masses) then Option 3 is okay and that what is meant. And why are we getting so detailed about this? I think OP just wanted to know what the options were. 😉
 
deacon3b said:
… the mass and obligation are directly tied to the Collect, intentions, prayer over the offerings, preface, and prayer after communion not to mention the readings which are intimately tied with each Sunday Mass.

I believe my bishop told me this years ago as well.
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Nowhere does the Church say this.

Canon Law says “any Mass.” Why would Canon Law say “any Mass” if the Church did not intend to say “any Mass” ???

I’m quite sure that the bishop himself celebrates many Masses on Sunday that do not follow the Sunday propers and readings schedule. There are all kinds of reasons this isn’t done. Dedication of a new church building. Ordinations (diaconate most likely if on Sunday), Solemn Profession, Confirmation. Sometimes other Solemnities replace Sunday such as Sts Peter & Paul or the Lateran Basilica. I doubt the bishop tells people that they must attend a second Mass that same day if they attend one of the above.

EDIT: yes, they are tied to “each Sunday Mass” They are important. But they are not tied to the Sunday Mass obligation. The obligation is still fulfilled by attending any Mass.
 
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FrDavid96 said:
I’m quite sure that the bishop himself celebrates many Masses on Sunday that do not follow the Sunday propers and readings schedule. There are all kinds of reasons this isn’t done. Dedication of a new church building. Ordinations (diaconate most likely if on Sunday), Solemn Profession, Confirmation. Sometimes other Solemnities replace Sunday such as Sts Peter & Paul or the Lateran Basilica. I doubt the bishop tells people that they must attend a second Mass that same day if they attend one of the above.
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I was just about to bring this up myself. I am not a bishop, but I have many times attended church dedications, patronal feasts, and other occasions when a different Mass setting replaced the Nth Sunday of Ordinary Time. And I do not believe that by doing so I have exhibited any kind of spirtitual/moral failure, as I might infer from your previous post:
FrDavid96 said:
Yes.

I sometimes try to clarify that there is a canonical obligation to attend Mass and then there is a spiritual/moral obligation. Satisfying the first does not always satisfy the second.
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I can understand the “feeling” that there is a “spiritual/moral obligation” but I don’t think the assertion is really supportable beyond that “feeling”?
Aside
Heck, I myself have a “feeling” that makes me uncomfortable fulfilling my obligations on the evening before a holy day without a “good reason” – But that feeling is mine alone. I Absolutely Do Not propose to others they should not avail themselves of the latitude permitted them by the Church.
 
Titivillus said:
I was just about to bring this up myself. I am not a bishop, but I have many times attended …
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(Why does this bring to mind that commercial in which the actor says, “I’m not a bishop, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night!” 😊 )
And I do not believe that by doing so I have exhibited any kind of spirtitual/moral failure, as I might infer from your previous post:
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Indeed, you have not. There is no obligation to attend these celebrations, so the obligation you’re fulfilling – when attending these at the same time as a prescribed obligation for a single obligation of Mass attendance – is not only validly fulfilled, but also fulfilled “morally and spiritually.”
Aside
Heck, I myself …
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Wait… an ‘aside’?!? Wow – cool! I didn’t know that was a tag, here!
 
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All this said – it was historically considered a laudable custom to attend ALL the Christmas Masses.

The Von Trapps, for example, used to enjoy going to Midnight Mass, early morning Mass, 9 AM Mass, and noon Mass on Christmas. (IIRC, they only went to Communion at midnight Mass, so they were getting plenty of food during the day to fortify them for all those Masses!)

But yeah, that custom’s not for everyone. Very joyful, no doubt, but strenuous!
 
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well my pastor just wrote in this week’s bulletin that the Christmas eve masses don’t count for sunday.

I’m just so confused
 
Angel, your pastor is mistaken. It happens. He may have been aiming that at people looking for the two for one scenario, meaning it doesn’t fulfill both.

It most certainly does fulfill Sunday if you go to another Mass for Christmas. Or it fulfills Christmas if you go to another for Sunday.

Go to Mass on Saturday evening or Sunday morning and celebrate the liturgy for the fourth Sunday of Advent if you can. If Sunday evening is the only mass you can go to for your Sunday obligation, it still fulfills it. Then go to another mass for Christmas obligation.

And as we’ve already mentioned to you— given your transportation challenges if you cannot go to two masses, then go to whatever mass you can and do not be troubled as God does not expect the impossible.
 
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Christmas on Monday is a little bit awkward

i usually go to 5 PM mass on saturday to fulfill Sunday obligation; attend HDOO as required

in my parish there will be no saturday vigil Mass for the 4th Sunday of Advent

SOOO; i guess i must try to get to Mass sometime during the day Sunday

then back to Mass Sunday night for the Christmas vigil

a marathon 🙂
 
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1ke said:
Angel, your pastor is mistaken. It happens. He may have been aiming that at people looking for the two for one scenario, meaning it doesn’t fulfill both.

It most certainly does fulfill Sunday if you go to another Mass for Christmas. Or it fulfills Christmas if you go to another for Sunday.

Go to Mass on Saturday evening or Sunday morning and celebrate the liturgy for the fourth Sunday of Advent if you can. If Sunday evening is the only mass you can go to for your Sunday obligation, it still fulfills it. Then go to another mass for Christmas obligation.

And as we’ve already mentioned to you— given your transportation challenges if you cannot go to two masses, then go to whatever mass you can and do not be troubled as God does not expect the impossible.
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This bears repeating. Thank you.
 
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