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idolatry
Guest
Are you saying that there is no real blood and flesh after all?
Are you a Catholic?
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Are you a Catholic?
L
Linusthe2nd
Guest
It is real blood and a real body, but glorified. A glorified body is not limited or restricted by time, space, place or any material thing. A glorified body is physical but not material as we think of earthly, material things. A glorified body can be visible or invisible, it can pass through solid materials, it can travel billions of miles at a mere exercise of the will. But Christ’s glorified body has other powers not common to the kind of glorified bodies we will have. He is wholely present, now, in every consecrated host anywhere on the planet and at the right hand of the Father at the same moment. And we could mention others.
Linus2nd
Linus2nd
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idolatry
Guest
Your understanding of real flesh and real blood is quite different
Do you think that Christ’s sacrifice on an altar produces glorified blood, which isn’t real?
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
Christ’s body being glorified would mean that his blood, since it is part of his body, is glorified as well. Who can say more about the nature of a glorified body than I have said, we have not been glorified ourselves. One thing we know it is not like an earthly body which has not been glorified. Nor is it like a hunk of meet at the meat market. All we know is what the Church has taught and from seen Christ’s glorified body after the Resurrection.
Linus2nd
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idolatry
Guest
Jesus gave his disciples real blood at the last supper, which wasn’t glorified
Are you really telling me that we are eating a glorified body?
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
I take it that you are not Catholic. The words of consecration pronounced by Christ at the Last Supper were " …this is my body…and …this is my blood…" Yet we know that what he gave the Apostles was what appeared to be bread and wine. But since Christ said " body " and " blood, " we know that the bread and wine were only appearances. This is what the Catholic Church teaches. It teaches what Christ said. You can look up the " Real Presence " in the Catechism in the link below.
Linus2nd
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idolatry
Guest
Are you suggesting that when Jesus was lying when he said; this is my body?
What makes you think that I am not a questioning Catholic?
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
When Jesus said " this is my body " he was telling the truth but he was holding in his hand what to you and me and to all people would appear as a piece of bread. But by the words " this is my body " Christ changed the bread into his body. But the accidents of the bread remained, it still looked like bread, it had all the physical characteristics of bread, but it was not bread. Because by the words " this is my body, " the substance of the bread was changed into the body of Christ and only the accidents of the bread remained, but they remained in no subject. Rather they provided a " veil " or covering for Christ’s body.
Linus2nd
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idolatry
Guest
The substance was changed not in the body of Christ but in His future body?
The Miracle of Lanciano confirmed that is was human flesh
Some one here has been trying to deceive me
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
What part of real and substantial presence of Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity you don’t understand about this practicing Catholic has commented here?
I would sure love to hear your response idolatry
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idolatry
Guest
What do you think it is; the glorified body or real blood and flesh?What part of real and substantial presence of Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity you don’t understand about this practicing Catholic has commented here?
I would sure love to here your response idolatry
There are different opinions on this thread
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
Future body? Nothing is impossible for God. Consider the mystery of the Transfiguration, when Christ revealed His light of His glorified body in the presence of Moses and Elijah.
Don’t confuse a miracle of the Eucharist to unbelievers at Lanciano that is worthy of belief witnessed by a private revelation that is not binding on all believers.
It is the consecrated Host in Eucharist instituted by Jesus Christ which is binding on all believers.
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
No one here is trying to decieve you. If this is indeed the body and blood of Christ, it is the Resurrected and glorified body and blood of Christ which Christ has decided to make visible. Instead of the bread and wine " covering " or hiding the body and blood, now the body and blood cover or hide the accidents of bread and wine. And remember, Christ’s glorified body can take on the properties of a non-glorified body. Didn’t Thomas put his finger in the side of Christ, yet it was Christ’s glorified body that he touched because it was his Resurrected.body. Remember what the Church teaches, the glorified body is not restricted by time, place, distance, or earthly material.
Linus2nd
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Gabriel_of_12
Guest
My personal faith says Jesus is fully human and fully divine. The answer to your question derives from things visible that are revealed from the invisible when it is both. The governing laws of space of time do not dictate themselves over their creator the invisible God from which space and time are subject and in obedience to God.
Thus the Eucharist is more real and more true flesh and blood that is Truth which far exceeds our understanding of human flesh and human blood subjected to corruption. The real True body and blood of Jesus Christ is Truth that penetrates creation in a real and substantial presence that veils God’s Essence with God’s presence in Eucharist is eternally existing.
In short all things visible and invisible are subject to Jesus body, blood, soul and divinity present in His Eucharist. When God the Father has placed all powers and principalities under His feet.
The flesh and blood of which Catholics consume are the true and real body, blood of Jesus Chris, which is never subject to corruption. This flesh and blood in Eucharist is the real and true flesh and blood that not only gives eternal life, but is the eternal life.
Flesh and blood that has subjected itself to corruption is not the true real flesh and blood of Jesus Christ. For the body and blood of Jesus Christ did not subject itself to corruption, because Jesus rose from the dead in His full body. And in His resurrected state, continued to celebrate His True presence in the breaking of bread when His disciples recognized Him in Eucharist on the road to Emmaus.
The Gospels reveal Jesus celebrating His true body and blood presence in Eucharist in both realities first within space and time, and then from an eternal reality, in His eternal resurrected true body and blood presence. When the first Eucharist is instituted by Christ. Those that follow are never another or different Eucharist, but the same and one Eucharist celebrated at the last supper once and for all.
Jesus concludes and fulfills the Passover celebration from the last supper in Eucharist when He states; “It is finished”.
The Eucharist remains a mystery, from which God reveals His True presence, when we can say; God dwells with the human race.
When you stated a future body? This raises the question that appears to relate to two different Eucharist. When there is never two different Eucharist. There is only one Eucharist and the Eucharist we celebrate is the same Eucharist Jesus instituted with His disciples. There is never a past or future Eucharist. The Work is done, “it is finished”.
Peace be with you
G
Gabriel_of_12
Guest
All valid Eucharist celebrated in Liturgy is that same **PRESENT Eucharist **Jesus instituted at the last supper. There can never be a past or future Eucharist, just as there can never be a past or future Jesus. Jesus is always present at all times in His Eucharist body, blood, soul and divinity. Jesus is the same yesterday, today and for ever more.
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thinkandmull
Guest
Linus, saying Jesus rolls over our tongue and down our throats, touching us with His face feet and robe (lol) sounds ridiculous. By the way, its heresy, because the Eucharist is only the Body of Christ and His Divinity, not also a robe. Therefore I see now evidence that Jesus is touched. I like to think of it as if the space where the bread once was is not empowered by the full presence of Jesus, and the “bread” that remains is just appearance. Descartes thought the same thing
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
If you think I am wrong why not read Thomas on the Eucharist. I think he will say the same thing.
Pax
Linus2nd
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thinkandmull
Guest
Where does Aquinas say (let alone prove) that we touch Jesus’s skin with our tongues, throats, esophaguses, and stomachs? That’s offensive
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Linusthe2nd
Guest
What do you think " this is my body…this is my biood " means? When the Church we receive the " whole Christ, " what do you think she means?
And Thomas does describe what the Church means, but he does so in a non-sensational, more respectful manner. When speaking of Christ we should refrain from sensationalism.
But I’ll let you find the passages yourself. Go to the S.T and look up the Eucharist.
Pax
Linus2nd
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Richca
Guest
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats* my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. (John 6: 53-57).
These are the words of Truth itself for Jesus said “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life,” so we cannot doubt for a minute that we truly and really eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ which the Catholic Church has always understood about the eucharist.
At the Last Supper, the apostles ate the non-glorified body of Christ and drank his non-glorified blood for Jesus had not yet been resurrected from the dead.
Since Jesus’ resurrection, we partake of his glorified body in the eucharist. This does not mean we don’t eat the real flesh and body of Christ or drink his real blood as if the glorified body and blood of Christ is not material or made out of matter. Christ’s glorified body is not a spirit as his soul or divinity are, but it is material though now it is incorruptible and taken on other supernatural qualities by which as St Paul says it is a spiritual body. It is spiritual in the sense that the body is totally subject to the spiritual soul and because of the aforementioned supernatural qualities. It is not spiritual in the sense that it is immaterial. A body is material by definition and it would be a contradiction in terms for a body to be immaterial at the same time.
Christ is true God and true man. Jesus has a complete human nature and human nature is that which is composed of a body and soul otherwise it could not be said that Jesus is a true man.
Jesus’ resurrection and the resurrection we hope for is not going to destroy our human nature but perfect it. We hope to arise with our material bodies at the resurrection. Our bodies are an essential part of being a human being.
When we go to communion, the priest says “The body of Christ” and “The blood of Christ.” We really and truly partake of the body and blood of Christ that the apostles saw and touched after Jesus’ resurrection. Jesus told them "Look at my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me and see, because a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you can see I have.” (Luke 24:39).
We can also consider that Adam and Eve would not have died if they had not sinned. They would now be living in the material bodies that God created them with; bodies He formed from the dust or soil of the ground. Earth was considered one of the elements in those days. The Baltimore Catechism says that after a period of probation, Adam and Eve would have been transplanted to heaven where there bodies would have been glorified if they had not sinned.
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