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Thomas48
Guest
Just curious but which day does your church celebrate? In the Syro Malabar Church Clean Monday is celebrated and it represents the start of the Lenten Season.
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MorEphrem
Guest
Because the Maronites have to outdo the Latins in being Latin, we do “Ash Monday” 
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malphono
Guest
That’s true, at least to a point, yet the formal Syriac name is still traiyn halyo.Because the Maronites have to outdo the Latins in being Latin, we do “Ash Monday”
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MichaelinMD
Guest
So…is that with or without the ashes?Because the Maronites have to outdo the Latins in being Latin, we do “Ash Monday”
As my late mother-in-law of blessed memory used to say about Ash Wednesday in the Byzantine (Ruthenian) Catholic Church, “We don’t do that!!”
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malphono
Guest
With. What we have is an adaptation of the Latin usage, meaning that it’s not exactly the same but it is similar. Although it may have been introduced somewhat earlier, IIRC, the practice was imported in the late 16th C, at about the same time as the traditional B’outho d’Nineweh (Rogation of the Ninevites) was unfortunately suppressed.
I suppose I should add here that I’ve heard tell (including from at least one Antiochian Orthodox person), of certain Melkite and AOC parishes that impose ashes on Clean Monday as well. I’ve never seen it personally, so I don’t know how true it is.
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shlomo3amrooh
Guest
My Parish priest simply calls it “Pure Monday” and crosses us with oil not ash
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Thomas48
Guest
I think Maronites and Malabar Catholics are the only ones who have mixed the use of ash and Clean Monday.
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malphono
Guest
AFAIK, yes. And of course the reason is latinization. Up until recently, The Syro-Malabar Church held the distinction of being the most latinized. But whereas the Syro-Malabars, particularly under mar George, have moved to shed many of the latinizations, (although I suppose the ashes are a small hold-over from those days), not so the Maronites. For us, it’s rather in reverse, what with the never-ending Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinizations. And it just keeps getting worse.
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dzheremi
Guest
I know it’s none of my business, but it seems very wrong to me that any Syriac Church should not observe the Rogation of the Ninevites. Even the Copts observe it (though we generally call it “Jonah’s Fast” instead), and they’re not in any way Syriac. How sad.
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MorEphrem
Guest
You’re very much free to comment upon it. Yes, yes it is a shame. How stupid I felt when my Syriac Orthodox friend wished me a sawmo brikho for the Ninevite Fast and I had to tell him we abrogated it because it’s not Latin.
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Vico
Guest
Byzantine Catholic Church has a Liturgy of the Presanctified Gifts for Clean Monday, (of course with no ashes). Some parishes do not have it.
The variable portions on Clean Monday:
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Sixth Hour
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- Isaiah 1:1-20
- Psalm 140 (Tone 3)
- Four Stichera used at Lamp-lighting Psalm and Theotokion
- Prokeimenon I (Tone 6): Psalm 3: 9, 2
- Reading I: Genesis 1:11-13
- Prokeimenon II (Tone 5): Psalm 4: 4, 2
- Reading II: Proverbs 1:1-20
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Aramis
Guest
Ruthenian - Pure Monday. (severe fast!)
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malphono
Guest
Sad indeed. There’s one aspect of the B’outho d’Nineweh, though, that I find kind of amusing: the timing. Notice that it falls 3 weeks before Clean Monday, and that it just happens to be coincident with the beginning of Septuagesima, which, of course IS Latin.
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ag_vn
Guest
What is the situation in the Syriac Catholic Church? Is the Rogation of the Ninevites observed or suppressed?
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Symeon
Guest
In our Russian Greek-Catholic parish we chant the Canon of St. Andrew of Crete on Clean Monday. There’s no “Ash” Wednesday, of course, just the first of the usual Presanctified Liturgies.
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SyroMalankara
Guest
Malankara Syriacs observe the Nineveh Fast, as well as S’bkono (Forgiveness Monday) Liturgy (although it tends to be practiced immediately following the previous Sunday Holy Qurbono due to time constraints/attendence). No ashes, only prostrations, reconciliation and shlomo (peace).
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Vico
Guest
It is impressive that you do the traditional Compline.
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