Cleaning and Psychology

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anglewannabe
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
A

Anglewannabe

Guest
I posted an earlier thread about keeping a small apartment clean and got a lot of good practical tips. Now I want to talk about the emotional issues behind cleaning.

For example, I use to have a few roommates that ALWAYS had to have everything perfectly clean and in order. It was obvious that it was an issue where they needed to always look good on the outside. I even remember one lady who use to come to my apartment and if a door on a kitchen cupboard was off the hinges and I still had not had time to do anything about it would literally panic and say ‘Get your superintendent in here right now to fix this’. It was suggested to me that this woman got her self esteem from having a ‘good’ home that she could not understand me waiting a couple of weeks to do anything about it.

I suspect I am the opposite of all those people. If there is one thing I can not stand, is pretending that everything is OK when it is not. As a kid/teenager, I always resented people telling me how good my parents were when they had NO idea what went on behind closed doors. Or often, when I would want to do something, my mom’s first response would be ‘what would the neighbours think?’ As if that matter !

So I am starting to think that not cleaning my apartment in some ways is part of my issue of wanting everything on the inside to be perfect before the outside can look good

Angie
 
Anglewannabe said:
So I am starting to think that not cleaning my apartment in some ways is part of my issue of wanting everything on the inside to be perfect before the outside can look good

Angie
Click to expand...
It’s a good possibility. As a self declared “messie”, I have found several good books out there that talk about the various reasons behind our issue with doing what seems “normal” and “easy” to others (aka “cleanies”). I suggest checking your public library for books by Cindy Glovinsky or Sandra Felton.

((Hugs))
 
Two books that might help are Living a Beautiful Life by Alexandria Stoddard and The Household Organizer (if it’s still in print). I’m with you. I didn’t post on the other thread because even I have the same problems. No, my parents never said, “What will the neighbors think?” but I don’t like people telling me what to do even if I have been in positions of authority and expect others to follow what I tell them to do. 😊
My mother had high expectations in terms of cleanliness and neatness when I was growing up that I could never seem to meet. I don’t remember if the comment comes from the Household Organizer, or another book, that “your mother was right.”
The Household Organizer teaches minimum maintenance, the method that a school janitor uses to keep a school clean, and applies it to keeping a house clean in as little as 30 minutes a day. Even better than the Household Organizer are the tools and techniques that you can learn from The Clean Team, especially Jeff Campbell’s books on Speed Cleaning. thecleanteam.com/
That’s about technique. Alexandria Stoddard’s books are more about attitude. She is an interior designer. Her books are more about personal design and taking care of yourself and taking care of your home as part of taking care of yourself, and a reflection of self. While the Household Organizer would clean from the outside in, beginning with what the neighbors see, Alexandra Stoddard would clean from the inside out, beginning with the closets. Where she differs from the self-help books like the Household Organizer and Speed Cleaning is the addition of extras, in the splurges that she would have you give yourself such as the weekly bouquet of flowers. You don’t need to live like a Spartan.
At the moment, my apartment is a bit tossed about. I go through spurts in which my place is meticulous and everything is exactly where it should be. After a couple of months, I slack off and know that I dare not invite anybody over to see my place. It’s not like I don’t know what to do. It’s simply a matter of making it a part of my regular routine.
 
Flylady is very good on the psychological side and not beating up on yourself. One of her catch phrases is, you aren’t behind–just begin where you are.
 
I have one very organized, very neat grandma and my mom, who is definitely a messie. The ironic thing is that my grandma values neatness and cleanliness for its own sake and just can’t stand seeing something not right (I once had to stop her from sweeping up the leaves that were falling in a very steady stream on our patio–you could have spent all day and the next several days just sweeping). In my grandma’s case, it is not done for other people.

On the other hand, there’s my mom (my grandma’s DIL). She, on the other hand, is all about keeping up appearances, but she generally only cleans when other people are coming. So, given her embarrassment about the state of her house, she rarely invites people over, which means that the house gets worse, which means that she doesn’t have people over, which means that she doesn’t clean or organize, etc. Pretty much a spiral of doom. She has gotten better recently, after a daughter told her no grandkids would be visiting if things didn’t improve (the kitty litter/cobweb/cat hair situation was getting frightening).

I am not the housekeeper my grandma still is, but one thing I have done is to move beyond the gotta-clean-company-coming thing. We need a clean house not because company is coming, but because we deserve a clean, pleasant, orderly home.
 
Anglewannabe said:
I posted an earlier thread about keeping a small apartment clean and got a lot of good practical tips. Now I want to talk about the emotional issues behind cleaning.

For example, I use to have a few roommates that ALWAYS had to have everything perfectly clean and in order. It was obvious that it was an issue where they needed to always look good on the outside. I even remember one lady who use to come to my apartment and if a door on a kitchen cupboard was off the hinges and I still had not had time to do anything about it would literally panic and say ‘Get your superintendent in here right now to fix this’. It was suggested to me that this woman got her self esteem from having a ‘good’ home that she could not understand me waiting a couple of weeks to do anything about it.

I suspect I am the opposite of all those people. If there is one thing I can not stand, is pretending that everything is OK when it is not. As a kid/teenager, I always resented people telling me how good my parents were when they had NO idea what went on behind closed doors. Or often, when I would want to do something, my mom’s first response would be ‘what would the neighbours think?’ As if that matter !

So I am starting to think that not cleaning my apartment in some ways is part of my issue of wanting everything on the inside to be perfect before the outside can look good

Angie
Click to expand...
I think this is possible, and since you are aware of it, you could be on a good road to being more consistent with your cleaning. I actually had a similar issue and now have found a balance. I no longer find it necessary to be a neat freak nor do I tend to let things go until it looks like a disaster area.

Try for a middle ground and relax a little. I do live with my sister now, and we have banged heads a bit because she is the "neat beyond words, do it yesterday, scrub constantly,vacuum every hour, dust every minute girl. Her illness has slowed this way down, but she expects me to pick up the slack. I won’t.

I like to live in my house, not put it on display as a show place. We are resolving the issues slowly and out of necessity.

I guess I see no reason to be an absolute slob, but I don’t want people to be afraid to use the couch if they come in either. I want to live.
 
I became a neat freak when I got my first apartment.Growing up in a large family,while our house was cleaned once a week it was often in a state of disarray.I was always taken in with the beautiful bur homey feeling homes on "Father Knows Best,Leave it to Beaver,etc.
I am still a neat freak,but it is for my own enjoyment,what is it ionic,is all three of my daughters are pretty messy.😛
 
Anglewannabe said:
I posted an earlier thread about keeping a small apartment clean and got a lot of good practical tips. Now I want to talk about the emotional issues behind cleaning.

For example, I use to have a few roommates that ALWAYS had to have everything perfectly clean and in order. It was obvious that it was an issue where they needed to always look good on the outside. I even remember one lady who use to come to my apartment and if a door on a kitchen cupboard was off the hinges and I still had not had time to do anything about it would literally panic and say ‘Get your superintendent in here right now to fix this’. It was suggested to me that this woman got her self esteem from having a ‘good’ home that she could not understand me waiting a couple of weeks to do anything about it.

I suspect I am the opposite of all those people. If there is one thing I can not stand, is pretending that everything is OK when it is not. As a kid/teenager, I always resented people telling me how good my parents were when they had NO idea what went on behind closed doors. Or often, when I would want to do something, my mom’s first response would be ‘what would the neighbours think?’ As if that matter !

So I am starting to think that not cleaning my apartment in some ways is part of my issue of wanting everything on the inside to be perfect before the outside can look good

Angie
Click to expand...
There is some “reward” for being messy in your life, otherwise you would not be that way. It’s the same for any behavior - otherwise you would not do it.

The question for you then is, what are the benefits TO YOU for being “messy”. Well, it obviously distinguishes you as different from your roommate and your mother. You say a friend had self-esteem issues about having a good, clean home. Is your self-esteem tied to having a different point of view? Are you feeling “superior” because you are not a clean freak? What is the reason you don’t care what the neighbors think?

Are you a person who entertains a lot or is your living space a refuge from the world? Is having a “messy” place an excuse with not interacting with people? That could determine how you handle your living space.

Also, why is this bothering you in the first place? You are an adult and unless you are living with someone else or violating safety and health codes , you are free to have your living space the way you want it to be.
 
I like Peter Walsh’s book, It’s All Too Much.

The book is more about clutter elimination than organizing. It’s an excellent book that helps us to evaluate our attitudes towards our “stuff.”

I personally feel “lighter” physically and emotionally when I have a neat home. Messiness makes me feel out of sorts and “heavy.” I know others who feel “empty” and “sad” when things are neat and de-cluttered. Not me!
 
My husband, whom I love dearly!, has to have a clean house or else he feels anxious. I think a lot of it derives from his mothers home. It was rarely clean and there was a lot of chaos in the home (to the point where we are currently not speaking to his parents because of the chaos continuing). To him, a mess is chaos and it reminds him of his parents and the stress associated to his childhood.

Now, our house is never perfect. We have four children under 10, and live in a small house. I try my best though cause I know it trigger for his anxiety. I don’t mind a small mess or cabinets askew, but the husband cannot deal with it at all.
 
MessyMom said:
My husband, whom I love dearly!, has to have a clean house or else he feels anxious. I think a lot of it derives from his mothers home. It was rarely clean and there was a lot of chaos in the home (to the point where we are currently not speaking to his parents because of the chaos continuing). To him, a mess is chaos and it reminds him of his parents and the stress associated to his childhood.

Now, our house is never perfect. We have four children under 10, and live in a small house. I try my best though cause I know it trigger for his anxiety. I don’t mind a small mess or cabinets askew, but the husband cannot deal with it at all.
Click to expand...
I can relate to how your husband feels. I grew up in a similar home. I still speak to my parents, but they live over 2000 miles away and I haven’t visited their home in years. The last time I visited, I spent half of the 10 days I was there doing nothing but cleaning because I could not put my baby son anywhere. My dad shops compulsively and my mom can’t throw anything away. While trying to dig out piles of paperwork, I found fast food receipts from when I was in high school, which means that not only were they almost a decade old, but that they had brought them with them when they moved.

I tend to freak out more than the average person about clutter. I am a resolute thrower-awayer. My husband keeps telling me I’m going to miss something, but I haven’t yet. (He’s a saver, but in his house saved things had a purpose and were put into labelled boxes. I could get behind that, if I knew I would use the thing.)
 
pensmama87 said:

“The last time I visited, I spent half of the 10 days I was there doing nothing but cleaning because I could not put my baby son anywhere.”

I totally understand. I had to spend a late night cleaning a bathroom on my arrival a couple years back, because I couldn’t set down my toothbrush with all the cat hair and the bathtub was unusable (i.e. trying to bathe in it would have left me dirtier than when I started). On another visit, I discovered that a BB gun had been left more or less at my 3-year-old’s eye level and within her reach in the bedroom that we were supposed to sleep in.
 
Anglewannabe said:
For example, I use to have a few roommates that ALWAYS had to have everything perfectly clean and in order. It was obvious that it was an issue where they needed to always look good on the outside.
Click to expand...
This may have been true of your roommates, but it certainly isn’t true of all people who function better in a neat and clean environment. My dh and I are both generally organized, clean people. When there is clutter and mess around I start to feel out of control and anxious. It’s much more pronounced in him, and I do the best I can to keep things in order so that he doesn’t panic! It isn’t about appearance for us, but for a sense of control and orderliness. I loathe mess and sloppy things around, it makes me fidget and want to start tidying up. It’s just a personality thing. One way isn’t better than another, unless it is a husband and wife who are on opposite poles. Then it can be trouble!
 
Xantippe said:
pensmama87 said:

“The last time I visited, I spent half of the 10 days I was there doing nothing but cleaning because I could not put my baby son anywhere.”

I totally understand. I had to spend a late night cleaning a bathroom on my arrival a couple years back, because I couldn’t set down my toothbrush with all the cat hair and the bathtub was unusable (i.e. trying to bathe in it would have left me dirtier than when I started). On another visit, I discovered that a BB gun had been left more or less at my 3-year-old’s eye level and within her reach in the bedroom that we were supposed to sleep in.
Click to expand...
Yep, you definitely understand! :eek: The BB gun is, thankfully, not the kind of thing I would have to deal with, but there’s pet hair and dust bunnies aplenty, but the piles of clutter assault the eye more. My mother was shocked at the layers of dirt under everything and even though I’m not sure it changed much after I left, she at least understood why I was so nuts about going through everything. My son had just started to crawl and it gave me the heebie jeebies thinking about him on their carpet.

I’ll admit too to wanting to have things look nice for company, and I do have perfectionistic tendencies, but absolutely I want my house to be neat and clean all of the time. I enjoy living in it a lot more because it’s so much more peaceful to have an orderly home. I like being able to find something when I need it, or even explaining easily to my husband or my kids where something is. My 2 year old is old enough now that I can ask him to get me something and he knows where to check.

There is one housekeeping blog I’ve read where the author discussed how she knew she had a big problem when she realized that she and her family could leave, have their house robbed while they were gone, and come back - and it would probably take her a while to realize anything was missing. I actually suggested it to my mom and she likes the approach - it’s called A Slob Comes Clean.
 
savedbygrace71 said:
This may have been true of your roommates, but it certainly isn’t true of all people who function better in a neat and clean environment. My dh and I are both generally organized, clean people. When there is clutter and mess around I start to feel out of control and anxious.
Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying and I trust that when you go to a friend’s who is not as organized as you, you have no problem with it. But my roommates would always make comments such as 'how can you live like that when I actually kept my bedroom door closed :confused:
 
I’m trying to remember the exact wording, but it fits in with the above posts. When two people live together, a person is considered messy if he or she is not as neat or clean as the other person.
I did like using Bonnie’s Household Organizer. Using the minimum maintenance system meant I didn’t have do everything everyday. I never needed to spend more than 30 minutes a day cleaning house. At the time that I came across the book I lived in a two story townhouse, so I would clean upstairs one day and downstairs the next. I even used the idea gleaned from a women’s magazine of housework as exercise so dress the part and go at it for the aerobic workout. Time is up and you are done. Stop. The same thing for larger projects. Set aside two hours Saturday morning. Work hard for the two hours. Time is up. Stop. Go no further. Go have fun. Come back to the same point the next week. In other words, your weekend GI Party has a time limit, and if you don’t get everything done, don’t worry. You can come back to it the next day. In the meantime, you are doing a minimum maintenance routine that is enough to keep healthy, and you need not worry if the in-laws unexpectedly drop by.
I learned even more from Jeff Campbell’s books and like using the products from the Clean Team. I don’t want to spend any more time than necessary cleaning.

At the moment I am going through a messy phase. I was thinking about the years when I owned my own house and realized how neat and clean it was most of the time. My dishes were clean, not building up in the sink as they are now. I learned that putting items on a bookcase can make them look neater than when they are on the floor. Basically, I think there is just something about caring for something that is yours as opposed to something that is not. I will take better care of my own things because I choose to rather than out of obligation.
When I used Bonnie’s Household Organizer, I had a family to care for, and was going to school at the same time. I currently live alone.
 
Monicad said:
I understand what you mean, but I would resist going so far as to infer that people who are neat are somehow phony or putting on a show for others. I don’t say that to put you down, I speak from my own life. I used to think that being messy made me more “genuine” in a way I was rather prideful about it actually. I look back at that way of thinking and realize I was wrong, at least about the people in my life anyway.

I would encourage you to approach things not from trying to organize or trying to impress or anything like that. Instead approach things from a SPIRITUAL perspective. That is what helped me the most.

Remember we are supposed to imitate Jesus Christ. Look at how God created the Universe, you will see that our God is a God of ORDER. The stars, our bodies, the constellations, atoms, molecules, everything in the universe is in order as God is a God of order. This is why I think it is a beautiful prayer and gift to God to try and bring order to your life! If we wait until we are perfect on the inside to try and bring order to our surroundings we will be waiting forever. When I wash dishes I make it my prayer to Jesus, thanking him for my food. When I make my bed I make it my prayer to Jesus, thanking him for my warm blankets. When I fold my clothes I make it my prayer to Jesus, thanking him for my warm clothes. When I clean my home I make it my prayer to Jesus, trying to bring order to my home as he brings order to the universe as chaos only robs me of some of my peace.

When I take my clothes and throw them on the floor I believe that is somewhat disrespectful, because my clothes are a beautiful gift from God. So I try and approach taking care of my things not trying to be organized but to give glory and honor to God and enrich my spiritual life it really helped me, hope that makes sense. God bless you!
Click to expand...
It helps me when I think about it this way. God is not a God of disorder.
In order to this, I need to be in the moment, in the now.
As I wrote in my last post, when I owned a house, I found it easier to keep things neat than when I am renting. I found that purchasing a small bookcase meant I could put things off the floor. Being off the floor in itself made things appear neater. I have enough background to know how to do what needs to be done. It’s a matter of doing it.
I have read about people who love puttering. I have never been one of those people. They see the simple joy of hanging clothes on the line. These simple acts can be acts of prayer. It is not that I find housework distasteful. I definitely enjoy the results of my efforts. It’s a pleasure to come home to place that smells clean and to see a well made bed.
What I liked about Alexandra Stoddard’s books is her grace notes. You can use beautiful decorative boxes and vases to organize rather than impersonal white bank boxes. It is about developing a space that reflects who I am as much a it is about being neat, tidy, and organized. Once I care for myself, and that includes the environment in which I live, it is easier for me to give to others, and to show hospitality.
 
Dacinom said:
I understand what you mean, but I would resist going so far as to infer that people who are neat are somehow phony or putting on a show for others.
Click to expand...
For the record, I did not mean to say all neat people have issues. I have lived with other neat people who simply liked things clean and never though to get heir self-esteem from it. I am simply trying to point out that for some people cleaningliness is related to emotional issues and I am the opposite of some of my past roommates
 
Anglewannabe said:

“I am simply trying to point out that for some people cleaningliness is related to emotional issues and I am the opposite of some of my past roommates”

And extreme messiness may also be related to emotional or psychiatric issues.
 
The op is correct-cleaning or not cleaning has psychological roots.

When extreme in either case, it can be traced to a feeling of lack of control in other areas of the persons life. Based on personality etc., a person will want to show control in their personal enviornment either way. The more stress, the more a person cleans or doesn’t.
The guilt comes in when it opposses learned responses from parents about cleanliness.
Extreme cleaning or not can be a form of ocd as well, or rebellion.

There is no cleaniless scale. When it causes guilt either way, it has roots somewhere.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top