Cleansing Sacred Vessels

[mattheus09]

When I don’t go to the TLM, I go to my home parish. At that parish, even after the Holy See said that EMHC could not cleanse Sacred Vessels, my parish still does it. Actually, all of the parishes that I have been to recently in my diocese do it. I have asked a member of the parish staff, and she said that our local bishop (I do not wish to name him) had sent a letter to all of the pastors in the diocese telling them to not change anything until they receive further direction from the USCCB and the Holy See. Is this bishop correct in doing this?

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

When I don’t go to the TLM, I go to my home parish. At that parish, even after the Holy See said that EMHC could not cleanse Sacred Vessels, my parish still does it. Actually, all of the parishes that I have been to recently in my diocese do it. I have asked a member of the parish staff, and she said that our local bishop (I do not wish to name him) had sent a letter to all of the pastors in the diocese telling them to not change anything until they receive further direction from the USCCB and the Holy See. Is this bishop correct in doing this?

Well that would be ok however the USCCB has already received a response from the Holy See, and the answer was NO, EMHC may not purify the Sacred vessels.

 

[angiegirl67]

I agree with Bro. the Holy See has already said how things are supposed to be handled.

Just this last weekend at my parish, we noticed that the vessels were being purified after Mass by the EM’s. It was a Mass that our Msgr presided over. But the Masses that our very by the book conservative associate pastor presides over the purification is being done correctly. Anyone have any suggestions about that? Do not mean to hijack… so if you think I am I will move this to a new thread.

 

[Beno]

My former parish still has the EMHC’s (which they improperly call “Eucharistic Ministers”) take the glass vessels into the sacristy where they consume what’s left of the Precious Blood and then purify and cleanse the vessels there.

But hopefully this will be changing so that the remaining Blood is consumed at the altar and the vessels are purified by the priest at the altar or credence table.

I have written a letter to the church to correct much of what is being done improperly. So far, my efforts have helped them to stop using instrumental music during the Eucharistic Prayer, and helped them to use a Eucharistic bread recipe using only with wheat and flour instead of their former recipe using oil, salt, honey, and a bit of baking soda. They will also be getting gold/metal Eucharistic vessels. I’m looking forward to them putting the holy water back into the fonts during Lent as well. Now I’m hoping that the priest discontinues with asking first communicants to gather around the altar during the consecration, and hoping that EMHC’s will wait until the priest self-communicates before approaching the altar.

Thanks to everyone for your continued dispensing of applicable knowledge.

 

[John_Lilburne]

When I don’t go to the TLM, I go to my home parish. At that parish, even after the Holy See said that EMHC could not cleanse Sacred Vessels, my parish still does it. Actually, all of the parishes that I have been to recently in my diocese do it. I have asked a member of the parish staff, and she said that our local bishop (I do not wish to name him) had sent a letter to all of the pastors in the diocese telling them to not change anything until they receive further direction from the USCCB and the Holy See. Is this bishop correct in doing this?

The direction has already been received from the USCCB and the Holy See. The letter from Cardinal Arinze can be downloaded from usccb.org/liturgy/ . It is also at jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/10/cdw_on_purifica.html .

It includes, from Cardinal Arinze:
“…I have put the whole matter before the Holy Father in an audience which he granted me on 9 June 2006, and received instructions to reply as follows: …
4. Paragraph 279 of the General Instruction of the Roman Missal directs that the sacred vessels are to be purified by the priest, the deacon or an instituted acolyte. The status of this text as legislation has recently been clarified by the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts. It does not seem feasible, therefore, for the Congregation to grant the requested indult from this directive in the general law of the Latin Church.
5. This letter is therefore a request to the members of the Bishops’ Conference of the United Status of America to prepare the necessary explanations and catechetical materials for your clergy and people so that henceforth the General Instruction of the Roman Missal, no. 279, as found in the editio typicatia of the Roman Missal, will be observed throughout its territories. …”

The Bishop’s Conference is the USCCB. It has prepared the requested explanations and catechetical materials.

So anyone failing to follow these instructions in on a collision course with the Pope, Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments and the USCCB.

I have written more about this is at romanrite.com/purifications.html .

 

[Lance]

At our church the any remaining Holy Blood is consumed by the Extraordinary Minister(s) at the credence table and the Hosts are taken to the Tabernacle which is in the back of the church. The vessels are taken to the work sacristy where the priest cleanses them. The EMHC’s are not to do it. I thought the pope and bishops were very clear in their instructions.

 

[mystified]

At the small chapel where I attended an indult Mass Sunday, I noticed a bulletin posted prominently beside the sacristy door stating clearly that the EMs were NOT to perform the purification per the GIRM and a notice from the bishops’ conference.
It is interesting that this church with eight NO Masses in English each week is following the rules in a diocese where the bishop (in charity, no name) has said nothing would change, essentially, until further notice.

 

[Brendan]

Here are the responses from Cardinal Mahony (LA) and Bishop Brown (Orange Co.)

To: Pastors, Administrators, Deacons, Parish Staffs, and Principals
From: Msgr. Royal M. Vadakin, Moderator of the Curia/Vicar General
Date: October 27, 2006
Subject: Holy Communion: An Update

Cardinal Roger Mahony and the Auxiliary Bishops of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles would like all in the Archdiocese to be made aware of what follows in this update.

You may wish to share this with your parishioners and those who find this policy update clarifying and of assistance in the celebration of the Eucharist.

Cardinal Mahony and the Auxiliary Bishops of the Archdiocese of Los Angeles have received a letter written on Oct. 23 by Bishop William S. Skylstad, President of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops, notifying bishops of a change in the indult – or church permission – in effect since 2002 which allows extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion to help cleanse cups and plates when there are not enough priests or deacons to do so.

According to his letter, Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the Vatican Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, asked Pope Benedict XVI about the matter during a June 9 audience, “and received a response in the negative.”

Receiving Holy Communion under both kinds remains a “more complete” sign of the sacrament’s meaning and continues to be the norm in the Archdiocese of Los Angeles. Until Cardinal Mahony and the auxiliary bishops have the opportunity to discuss the new recommendations, both locally and at the general meeting of the USCCB in November, no changes will be made regarding the present policy for the distribution of Holy Communion and/or the purification of the sacred vessels.

closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/2006/10/memo-from-los-angeles-archdiocese-re.html

I haven’t heard any update on this from LA, Considering that they were going to discuss it at the USCCB meeting last Nov, and then amonst themselves, I wonder if they have found the time to bring it up.

And I really like the term they used “recommendations”

 

[Windmill]

If everyone who is an EMHC in this country were to refuse to purify vessels, then there would be no problem.

 

[Lance]

If everyone who is an EMHC in this country were to refuse to purify vessels, then there would be no problem.

Excellent point. Lets get the word out to them that they should not be doing something reserved for the priest.

 

[John_Lilburne]

If everyone who is an EMHC in this country were to refuse to purify vessels, then there would be no problem.

An instituted acolyte is an EMHC. An instituted acolyte is permitted to purify vessels.
From the 2004 Instruction Redemptionis Sacramentum “[155.] In addition to the ordinary ministers there is the formally instituted acolyte, who by virtue of his institution is an extraordinary minister of Holy Communion even outside the celebration of Mass. …”.
So perhaps: “If everyone who is an EMHC, but not an instituted acolyte, were to refuse to purify vessels, then there would be no problem.”

 

[Windmill]

“If everyone who is an EMHC, but not an instituted acolyte, were to refuse to purify vessels, then there would be no problem.”

True, but since only adult males can be instituted acolytes, not many parishes are into that. The vast majority of instituted acolytes are seminarians preparing for the priesthood.

So, technically, by law, you are right. Practically, it is a virtually hypothetical situation.

 

[John_Lilburne]

True, but since only adult males can be instituted acolytes, not many parishes are into that. The vast majority of instituted acolytes are seminarians preparing for the priesthood.

So, technically, by law, you are right. Practically, it is a virtually hypothetical situation.

The indult has been refused, so Catholic educators need to explain why some lay people cannot do the purifications but others can. So they need to explain what institued acolytes are. Then there is the question why is this “a virtually hypothethetical situation”? Why isn’t there much implementation of the 1972 Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam “3. Ministries may be assigned to lay Christians; hence they are no longer to be considered as reserved to candidates for the sacrament of orders.” There is not a good answer. The more people who are aware of it, the more likely there is to be better implementation.

 

[turtleoompa]

I even wrote the Bishop about it at our parish.I am an EMHC who has stepped down because of our many abuses ( the EMHC purifying, The glass vessels, The pouring of the precious blood into cups after consecration, The EMHC being on the altar while the priest takes communion). The Bishop’s secretary wanted to know our name and address so he could write us a letter. It has been 3 months and we have yet to receive his response.

 

[CatQuilt]

Our priests have begun doing this (they are wonderful and holy priests) but as a side question, when should one end kneeling? I kneel until the celebrant priest is finished with everything, getting hosts back to the tabernacle and now doing the purification.

Is that correct?

 

[ChemicalBean]

The indult has been refused, so Catholic educators need to explain why some lay people cannot do the purifications but others can. So they need to explain what institued acolytes are. Then there is the question why is this “a virtually hypothethetical situation”? Why isn’t there much implementation of the 1972 Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam “3. Ministries may be assigned to lay Christians; hence they are no longer to be considered as reserved to candidates for the sacrament of orders.” There is not a good answer. The more people who are aware of it, the more likely there is to be better implementation.

Exactly. But the part you didn’t mention is why it says that these Ministries may be assigned to lay Christians, and then describes the duties of the ministries, and then turns around and says it the church reserves the ministries only to men. Are women not lay Christians, too? This seems like blatent discrimination against women (this is not scripturally founded and no longer within the tradition of orders). The church would have some ‘splainin’ to do!

 

[John_Lilburne]

Our priests have begun doing this (they are wonderful and holy priests) but as a side question, when should one end kneeling? I kneel until the celebrant priest is finished with everything, getting hosts back to the tabernacle and now doing the purification.

Is that correct?

I see the kneeling as an option at some Masses, but not a requirement.

From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :
“42. … A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.
43. The faithful should stand … from the invitation, Orate, fratres (Pray, brethren), before the prayer over the offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated below. … and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.”

From the Ceremonial of Bishops, which applies if a bishop is the celebrant of a Stational Mass:
“166 When the bishop returns to the chair after the communion, he puts on the skullcap and, if need be, washes his hands. All are seated and a period of prayerful silence may follow, or a song of praise or a psalm may be sung.”
(Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 60).

 

[John_Lilburne]

Exactly. But the part you didn’t mention is why it says that these Ministries may be assigned to lay Christians, and then describes the duties of the ministries, and then turns around and says it the church reserves the ministries only to men. Are women not lay Christians, too? This seems like blatent discrimination against women (this is not scripturally founded and no longer within the tradition of orders). The church would have some ‘splainin’ to do!

What should people in the church do? Con people into believing that there is no such thing as instituted acolytes, that Paul VI did not issue the Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam? Or explain that the Catholic Church recognises different roles for men and women, not just regarding ordination, but in other ministries, such as instituted lectors and acolytes?

 

[ChemicalBean]

What should people in the church do? Con people into believing that there is no such thing as instituted acolytes, that Paul VI did not issue the Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam? Or explain that the Catholic Church recognises different roles for men and women, not just regarding ordination, but in other ministries, such as instituted lectors and acolytes?

I’m with you, the Church should promote instituted ministries. But along with it, it should not restrict those ministries to men only. People will always try to pull the tradition card (gender roles) when discussing ordained ministry, but acolyte is a lay role, which in theory should be able to be filled by any properly disposed lay person. Furthermore, look at the title of this thread: When was the last time that “doing the dishes” wasn’t traditionally women’s work?

 

[love4mary]

There are times when too much wine is pour for the consecration, and our pastor has insisted that the EM’s consume the Precious Blood Before placing the Chalice on the Altar. He of course will purify them.

We have 4 chalices and 2 masses on Sunday and he has told us that if he had to consume all the Precious Blood himself, he would become “drunk”. Remember, the alcohol level is still present even though its now the Precious Blood.