Clearing the Altar

[VincentO]

I’ve been going round churches in the city, just to see how mass is celebrated around the place.

Yesterday I attended a parish which is run by the redemptorists. A beautiful church indeed but a couple of things caught my eye during mass.

Firstly, the Eucaristic Ministers were given the host in their hand before the priest received communion - they then received at the same time as he.

Secondly, while the priest was distributing communion, another gentleman who was serving mass, cleared the altar. He also proceeded to remove the chalices to the side table, with the purificator over the top of them. The vessels weren’t purified by the priest.

On another note, in Scotland the priest always says

‘Pray my brothers and sisters that OUR sacrifice may be acceptable…etc’, but the priest said ‘my sacrifice and yours’.

On consulting my missal, this is what they say in England and Wales! But this is just a minor thing - it did make me wonder why is was different though!

So…weekly moan over!

Vince

 

[Deacon_Ed]

VincentO:

I’ve been going round churches in the city, just to see how mass is celebrated around the place.

Yesterday I attended a parish which is run by the redemptorists. A beautiful church indeed but a couple of things caught my eye during mass.

Firstly, the Eucaristic Ministers were given the host in their hand before the priest received communion - they then received at the same time as he.

This is a violation of the current guidelines for the celebration of Mass. They should not even be where they can receive the Blessed Sacrament until after the priest has communicated.

VincentO:

Secondly, while the priest was distributing communion, another gentleman who was serving mass, cleared the altar. He also proceeded to remove the chalices to the side table, with the purificator over the top of them. The vessels weren’t purified by the priest.

This is permitted in the GIRM so it’s not a violation.

VincentO:

On another note, in Scotland the priest always says

‘Pray my brothers and sisters that OUR sacrifice may be acceptable…etc’, but the priest said ‘my sacrifice and yours’.

On consulting my missal, this is what they say in England and Wales! But this is just a minor thing - it did make me wonder why is was different though!

So…weekly moan over!

Vince

The “…our sacrifice…” is the correct form. The priest was clearly changing the words of the Mass which is contrary to the discipline of the Church.

Deacon Ed

 

[VincentO]

Deacon Ed:

The “…our sacrifice…” is the correct form. The priest was clearly changing the words of the Mass which is contrary to the discipline of the Church.

Deacon Ed

Thanks for the quick reply!

Strange that my Roman Missal allows ‘my sacrifice and yours’ in England and Wales. I’ve seen this in other versions of the Missal we use in the UK too.

It seems to have been ‘approved’ looking at the inside front cover, although I have not idea what ‘Concordat cum originali’ or ‘Imprimi Protest’ mean. It certainly looks official!

Wonder why this might be? Any ideas?

 

[Servulus]

The reason for the difference is one of translation. We have to remember that both are English translations of a prayer originally written in Latin. Clearly, “our sacrifice” and “my sacrifice and yours” can be taken to mean the same thing. Having said that, let’s look at the text in the original Latin:

“Oràte, fratres, ut *meum ac vestrum sacrificium *acceptàbile fit apud
Deum Patrem omnipotèntem.” (emphasis added for this post)

The literal translation is “my(singular) and your(plural) sacrifice”

Using the same structure, the literal translation of “our sacrifice” would be “nostrum sacrificium”.

Without knowing the complete background, it’s difficult at best to know why the prayer was written that way. Logically, though, there must have been a reason.

Food for thought.

 

[Podo2004]

VincentO:

I’ve been going round churches in the city, just to see how mass is celebrated around the place.

Yesterday I attended a parish which is run by the redemptorists. A beautiful church indeed but a couple of things caught my eye during mass.

Firstly, the Eucaristic Ministers were given the host in their hand before the priest received communion - they then received at the same time as he.

Secondly, while the priest was distributing communion, another gentleman who was serving mass, cleared the altar. He also proceeded to remove the chalices to the side table, with the purificator over the top of them. The vessels weren’t purified by the priest.

On another note, in Scotland the priest always says

‘Pray my brothers and sisters that OUR sacrifice may be acceptable…etc’, but the priest said ‘my sacrifice and yours’.

On consulting my missal, this is what they say in England and Wales! But this is just a minor thing - it did make me wonder why is was different though!

So…weekly moan over!

Vince

they clear the table and give the EMC and servers the hosts at my parish before, i don’t see anything wrong with that. I’m just curious which city did you go too?


Podo The Hobbit

 

[JimG]

While “our sacrifice” is the way it is currently translated from the Latin; as pointed out by Servulus, it is really a mistranslation. I’m hoping that in any new English translation it will be corrected.

“My sacrifice and yours,” can be construed to more correctly distinguish the sacrifice that is taking place on the altar, confected by the priest acting in persona Christi, and the sacrifice of ourselves that we join to his.

A minor detail, perhaps. I can live with either translation, but I’d prefer the more accurate one.

JimG

 

[Podo2004]

JimG:

While “our sacrifice” is the way it is currently translated from the Latin; as pointed out by Servulus, it is really a mistranslation. I’m hoping that in any new English translation it will be corrected.

“My sacrifice and yours,” can be construed to more correctly distinguish the sacrifice that is taking place on the altar, confected by the priest acting in persona Christi, and the sacrifice of ourselves that we join to his.

A minor detail, perhaps. I can live with either translation, but I’d prefer the more accurate one.

JimG

I prefer the original translation(the accurate) one too. But as you said it’s a minor detail


Podo The Hobbit

 

[Illini]

The fact that the UK version of “my sacrifice and yours” corresponds to the Latin original is pleasantly surprising! I hear the impending new translation will use “my sacrifice and yours.”

-Illini

 

[VincentO]

Podo2004:

they clear the table and give the EMC and servers the hosts at my parish before, i don’t see anything wrong with that. I’m just curious which city did you go too?


Podo The Hobbit

I’ve been going to different, but all local parishes in Edinburgh, Scotland.

On another note

1.‘my sacrificice and yours’ = England,
2. ‘our sacrifice’ = Scotland

Just to point out that Scotland and England are both in the UK. Don’t worry, I just get my knickers in a twist about nationality on a regular basis

Peace!

Vince

 

[Pious]

Just to point out that although in the Roman Missal for Ireland, England, Scotland & Wales it states:

Priest: Pray, brethren, that our sacrifice may be* acceptable to God the Almighty Father.

• In England and Wales: ‘my sacrifice and yours’.

I can gladly say that in my Parish the Priest says ‘our sacrifice’ and not ‘my sacrifice and yours’.

Why it is written in the Missal, I do not know; maybe the Priest’s in England and Wales did say ‘my sacrifice and yours’ in times gone by, but the Priest here in my Parish in Wales definitly says ‘our sacrifice’.

Yours in the Spirit

Pious.