Cleric - its ok to beat woman and force them to have sex

[dolphinlove]

au.news.yahoo.com/a/-//5275032/cleric-preaches-beating-women-and-forcing-sex/

An Islamic cleric from Melbourne has told followers it is permitted to force their wives to have sex with them and to hit them.

The lecture, titled “The Keys to a Successful Marriage” was delivered a few years ago but had recently been placed on the internet.

Samir Abu Hamza, who runs the Islamic Information and Services Network of Australasia in Coburg, said Islamic law permitted men to hit their disobedient wives as a last resort.

“You’ll beat them… but this is the last resort after you have advised them for a long, long time, then you smack them, you beat them.”

For the rest of the article, refer to the link above

 

[jakasaki]

Hi DolphinLove…

I was just reading the same article posted in:

Cleric: Rape, beating OK for wives

AN AUSTRALIAN Islamic cleric has told his male followers it is permissable to force their wives to have sex and to hit them if they are disobedient.

news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,24945652-5001021,00.html

Terrible, terrible stuff. Stories like these make me so mad…

Not only these clerics preach hate against the west, they also preach against their own women. Shame!

Best regards,
Pam
New York

 

[R_not]

Would this type of thing be against the law there or in the USA? Basically for clerics to incite this type of behavior of its adherents?

I was just wondering.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Salaam/peace

The Keys to a Successful Marriage"

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, ( Chapter Women/ An-Nisa 4:19)

“Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers.”
From the last sermon of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)

Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition
**

The Myth and The Reality **

By: Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D.-

Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/

 

[R_not]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, ( Chapter Women/ An-Nisa 4:19)

“Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers.”
From the last sermon of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)

Women in Islam Versus Women in the Judaeo-Christian Tradition
**

The Myth and The Reality **

By: Sherif Abdel Azim, Ph.D.-

Queens University, Kingston, Ontario, Canada

islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/

does that apply to the temporary marriages for sex only?

does that apply to women who don’t have 4 witnesses to their rapists?

here is a good article of a muslim woman that woke up to the denigration of women in islam!

A quote from the article:

I feel disgusted! I cannot imagine my six year old, or any six year old girl to be married to a 50 year old guy NO matter how religious that person is.

I am a woman and I don’t have a “short memory,” as Muhammad said. I am not “deficient in intelligence” either. I have outsmarted many guys in my life. All my life I have studied on scholarship and right now I am perusing a degree again on scholarship. Then how can our prophet say we women have short memory and deficient in intelligence? This is scientifically wrong.

Now considering that a girl is raped. Where in the world can she find 4 men to testify in her case? Rape is not a circus that people will be invited to watch. It’s usually done in an isolated place where no one can see. Say a girl was raped and gets pregnant. She needs 4 witnesses to prove she was raped and usually there isn’t even one. But the proof that she had sex out of the wedlock is there in her womb. Then what will happen according to Islamic law? She can’t provide any proof of rape. So she will be accused of adultery and stoned to death. Does this sound just or logical? No it doesn’t - at least to those who have a heart and a brain.

You forget that beating is allowed in islam so does ‘treat your women well’ mean that you have forgotten to tell us that beating is ok? I notice you leave a lot out of your explanations of things.

Since sharia laws doesn’t care if women are ‘honor killed’ in every country that it is the law - how do you explain that women have no recourse to fight that in the courts? Or be protected from it? The only countries that muslim women are protected are in our Western countries. Well, not so in some places in Europe and the UK since they are letting muslims practice sharia laws and that means they hand women back to their owners who are being abused.

Please don’t tell me that it is not in the koran - I am talking about sharia laws that the muslims follow and those laws don’t have any provisions for women being beaten, killed, or tortured. Women cannot even vote to change those laws. How come?

Why do you consider ownership a freedom? That is slavery, and rape if the woman is given to men by their owner/father against their will. And that does indeed happen.

And women in islam are in the koran as being “deficient in intelligence”. That is per mohammed. and he also said that hell is mostly full of women.

women in islam

A quote:

In order to consider this question fully, the obstacles to such liberation must be addressed: Qur’anic verses such as 4:34 (which enjoins wife-beating) and those that make a woman’s testimony (2:282) and inheritance (4:11) worth half of a man’s do indeed involve Islamic teachings, not just cultural practices. There are also numerous ahadith that reflect poorly on women, including one in which Muhammad declares that most of hell’s population is female and that women are deficient in intelligence and piety (Bukhari, I:6:304).

Sura 4:34, which has recently been advanced as a valid principle for conduct by Muslim spokesmen in Turkey, Spain, and elsewhere, makes for an atmosphere in which abuse of women is epidemic. The Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences, for example, has determined that over nine out of ten Pakistani wives have been struck, beaten, or abused sexually for offenses on the order of cooking an unsatisfactory meal. It is the Qur’anic mandate for this abuse that makes it hard for me to accept Mr. El-Mallah’s contention that where women suffer in the Islamic world, it is because of a “lack of good Islamic understanding.”

Sorry, but I do not believe you muslim woman. Maybe your owner is kind to you, but it is not the case in far too many muslim women’s lives under sharia law.

 

[kellie]

Would this type of thing be against the law there or in the USA? Basically for clerics to incite this type of behavior of its adherents?

I was just wondering.

I live in Melbourne where this cleric lives, and this is the law about incitement …

**Crimes Act 1958 - SECT 321G **

Incitement321G. Incitement(1) Subject to this Act, where a person in Victoria or elsewhere incites anyother person to pursue a course of conduct which will involve the commissionof an offence by- (a) the person incited; (b) the inciter; or (c) both the inciter and the person incited-if the inciting is acted on in accordance with the inciter’s intention, theinciter is guilty of the indictable offence of incitement.(2) For a person to be guilty under subsection (1) of incitement the person- (a) must intend that the offence the subject of the incitement be committed; and (b) must intend or believe that any fact or circumstance the existence of which is an element of the offence in question will exist at the time when the conduct constituting the offence is to take place.(3) A person may be guilty under subsection (1) of incitement notwithstandingthe existence of facts of which the person is unaware which make commission ofthe offence in question by the course of conduct incited impossible.
austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s321g.html

The only thing his defence would say is he hasnt actually told his followers to go out and perform the crime of rape. By the way, I abhor what he has told his community. Religion or not, we are all humans, regardless of gender, and should all be treated the same

 

[dolphinlove]

to add further to what Kellie said, our prime minister has come out and added his views to what the cleric said, and he is not happy…
the link to the site is not working at the moment, but he has not condoned what the cleric has said.

 

[Prime]

“Treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers.”
From the last sermon of Prophet Mohammed (pbuh)

I understand we should allow possible cultural/contextual differential meanings here.
Does treating women “well and be kind to them” in this context include beating?

 

[chrisse]

Here’s the link to his talk posted on the internet :

au.youtube.com/watch?v=M2z_2dMecFM

On the beating he does stress that it must be light. However, defenders of this hideous example of allah’s law ignore some obvious issues -

1. A man is given the right to hit his wife. This is not a right any person should have over another.
   Unfortunately, that is not the end of it …
2. The offence to the man could be anything he wants to find offensive.
3. There is no protection for the woman against those men who will beat their wives and physically harm them.
4. There is no punishment for the man if he does so.

The end result of this wretched revelation into the ears of mohammet is legalised abuse of another person. Disgusting.

And no doubt CAF’s very own Aunt Gemina’s will jump in and defend it.

 

[Deconi]

Assault is the act of intentionally applying or attempting to apply force to the person of another, directly or indirectly, or THREATENING by any act or gesture to apply such force to the person of another, if the person making the threat has, or causes the other to believe on reasonable grounds that s/he has, present ability to effect his/ her purpose;…

Crimes Act. New Zealand Law.

Australian Law also has a corresponding meaning of ASSAULT.

As can be seen, there is no ‘escape clause’ for ANY REASON, whether religion, custom, gender or age!..although these can be submitted as mitigating factors during ‘Defences.’

Pretty simple.

 

[aldgh]

I just heard about this in the news today. Please remember:

1. He is not an Imam
2. He is condemned by Imam’s here in Aus. about what he said.
3. He does not preach at a Mosque, in fact i think his speech was just in a basement.

Although, I completely disagree with his message. And, I also believe the Imams themselves said that he has misinterpreted the Koran.

 

[R_not]

hypocracies in islam

Muslim spokespersons claim moral purity in their fight against ‘decadent’ Westerners. Indeed, if a Muslim is told an infidel slept with a nine years old girl, they would condemn him for being a pedophile. But mention the Prophet Mohammed slept with a girl of the same age, and watch him overact with all kinds of rationalizations such as ‘girls in those days matured fast’ or ‘it was normal and acceptable in that culture’, etc. Apparently it was also normal in those days to rape a widow the same night you slaughtered her beloved husband in an unprovoked raid. To normal thinking feeling human beings, the phrase ‘most merciful’ would not seem to apply to either of these divinely sanctioned acts by Muhammad, yet somehow that contradiction is lost to Muslims.

What I find ironic is that muslim women keep defending the indefensible. On a different website I read a quote from an ex-muslim, Wafa Sultan,

When I examined the Koran, the hadith, and the Islamic books under a microscope, I came to the absolute conviction that it is impossible – impossible! – for any human being to read the biography of Muhammad and believe in it, and yet emerge a psychologically and mentally healthy person.

The Muslim is an irrational creature ruled by instincts. Those teachings have deprived him of his mind, incited his emotions, and reduced him to the level of an inferior creature that cannot control himself or react to events rationally.

It is like negative logic. But even negative logic is logical where defending the indefensible is not. Maybe I should say that it is more like the absence of logic.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Abu Hamza? Is that the same guy who keeps getting lambasted on the UK? Did he go visit Australia now? The guy with the missing hand?

Seriously, people.

Do you learn your laws from yahoo.com? I sure hope not. Then why would anyone consider it an authority about someone else’s laws?

 

[jakasaki]

Abu Hamza? Is that the same guy who keeps getting lambasted on the UK? Did he go visit Australia now? The guy with the missing hand?

Seriously, people.

Do you learn your laws from yahoo.com? I sure hope not. Then why would anyone consider it an authority about someone else’s laws?

Good afternoon Sister Amy -

No, it’s **not **Abu Hamza, it’s Samir Abu Hamza, different guy. If you open my post/reply, you will see a picture of the guy and it is not the guy with the missing/hook hand.

Regards,
Pam
New York

 

[Sister_Amy]

Good afternoon Sister Amy -

No, it’s **not **Abu Hamza, it’s Samir Abu Hamza, different guy. If you open my post/reply, you will see a picture of the guy and it is not the guy with the missing/hook hand.

Regards,
Pam
New York

Since “Abu Hamza” is a kunya, and “Samir” is a first name, it could have been the same person. That’s why I asked. Thanks for answering!

Although I still don’t think it’s worthwhile at all to take laws from yahoo news.

 

[emarc]

Since “Abu Hamza” is a kunya, and “Samir” is a first name, it could have been the same person. That’s why I asked. Thanks for answering!

Although I still don’t think it’s worthwhile at all to take laws from yahoo news.

yahoo is the messenger, but the message is about islam teaching.
God bless.

 

[dolphinlove]

Abu Hamza? Is that the same guy who keeps getting lambasted on the UK? Did he go visit Australia now? The guy with the missing hand?

Seriously, people.

Do you learn your laws from yahoo.com? I sure hope not. Then why would anyone consider it an authority about someone else’s laws?

do i need to add the hadith that says its ok to hit a woman ‘lightly’??

 

[R_not]

yahoo is the messenger, but the message is about islam teaching.
God bless.

this is just a strategy by muslims, and quite often their apologists. They try to bash the messenger in order to deflect the problems that islam has.

 

[emarc]

can’t the govt deport him?
God bless.

 

[Prime]

I wonder what will happen to the same guy if he was a Catholic doing the same thing in a Muslim country?
How fast will they kill him?
But that’s another story because ‘fair’ is not an option here.