Clerical Crisis of Identity

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There is an identity crisis evident in far too many of the clergy - bishops, priests, deacons - who don’t seem to know who they are. It plays out in dfferent ways in the details, but I am talking about:

Bishops who see themselves more as administrators, consensus builders and peacekeepers than the shepherd whose threefold office is to teach, sanctify, and govern.

Priests who think it is an act of humilty to insist on being addressed by his first name, who dresses in secular clothing whenever possible, and who generally wish to be looked upon as just another member of the Church. i.e. He totally discounts his role as the bishop’s helper in his threefold office. (I am thinking of a real person here, BTW. Admittedly an extreme example.)

Deacons who have a similar problem with false humilty and will gladly sit and watch laity distribute Communion, and who generally act more like a layman with special permissions than a member of the hierarchy.

The permanent diaconate has a special challenge in living out their identity, I must say. From bishops who forbid them (even though he is truly able) to wear clerics, to priests who view permanent deacons as “wanna be preists;” these men have some additional obstacles.

I think many of the problems we see in certain parishes and dioceses can be attributed to this crisis of clerical identity. At its root is a failure to identify oneself according to the authority and worthiness of Christ to whom they are ontologically configured. Any thoughts?
 
This is an exceptionally good point. :tiphat: I’m a seminarian, so I can attest that it is a complicated problem, because even as a seminarian, I am touched by the seemingly endless factioning and complaining that occurs in the Church. (Sometimes the issues don’t have a simple answer; every issue is not a matter of faith/morals or an “open-and-shut” disciplinary matter like self-Communicating and liturgical dance.) These controversies can create a real temptation to our bishops and priests to just want to build a consensus and make peace.

Unfortunately, as you point out, such a compromises often spill into issues where there IS a right answer and we end up with a spineless Catholicism–what George Weigel calls “Catholic Lite.”
It also causes many liturgical abuses, such as those that you mention.

My generation seems to be better about understanding priestly identity (seminary formation has grown much better than it used to be in this area), but many of my brethren fall into the identity crisis that you mention about permanent deacons, regarding them as “wannabe priests”. This sort of arrogant dismissal only serves to make the problem worse.

Please, let us pray for our deacons, priests, and bishops.
 
This is an absolutely excellent thread. You hit this dead on!. Never have I thought of these “goings on” as an identity crisis but boy, that’s exactly what it is!!! This kind of thing runs rampant in my own parish. Satan is doing a good job of confusing the Lord’s chosen priests. They just want to be “one of the guys” so to speak. Not only that but they are getting into all kinds activist rolls, whatever they feel strongly about. What ever happened to spiritually leading God’s people in their own parishes?
 
Conciliar said:
There is an identity crisis evident in far too many of the clergy - bishops, priests, deacons - who don’t seem to know who they are. It plays out in dfferent ways in the details, but I am talking about:

Bishops who see themselves more as administrators, consensus builders and peacekeepers than the shepherd whose threefold office is to teach, sanctify, and govern.

Fair enough. But don’t think that playing politics isn’t part of his job. Don’t fool yourself - even the pope does it.

Priests who think it is an act of humilty to insist on being addressed by his first name, who dresses in secular clothing whenever possible, and who generally wish to be looked upon as just another member of the Church. i.e. He totally discounts his role as the bishop’s helper in his threefold office. (I am thinking of a real person here, BTW. Admittedly an extreme example.)

If a priest prefers to be addressed by his own name, there’s nothing wrong with that. Dressing in secular clothing is also acceptable - do you think a police officer wants to be in uniform when off the job?

A priest has a unique mark of ordination and a unique ministry in the Church. But other than that, he’s just a man. Get over him. He puts his pants on one leg at a time, goes to the bathroom, sometimes longs for sexual contact, and enjoys a good steak dinner just like you and me.

Deacons who have a similar problem with false humilty and will gladly sit and watch laity distribute Communion, and who generally act more like a layman with special permissions than a member of the hierarchy.

This is usually not the deacon’s problem - but the problem of the pastor or bishop to whom he is obedient.
The permanent diaconate has a special challenge in living out their identity, I must say. From bishops who forbid them (even though he is truly able) to wear clerics, to priests who view permanent deacons as “wanna be preists;” these men have some additional obstacles. Very true.

I think many of the problems we see in certain parishes and dioceses can be attributed to this crisis of clerical identity. At its root is a failure to identify oneself according to the authority and worthiness of Christ to whom they are ontologically configured. Any thoughts?
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Conciliar said:
There is an identity crisis evident in far too many of the clergy - bishops, priests, deacons - who don’t seem to know who they are. It plays out in dfferent ways in the details, but I am talking about:

Bishops who see themselves more as administrators, consensus builders and peacekeepers than the shepherd whose threefold office is to teach, sanctify, and govern.

Priests who think it is an act of humilty to insist on being addressed by his first name, who dresses in secular clothing whenever possible, and who generally wish to be looked upon as just another member of the Church. i.e. He totally discounts his role as the bishop’s helper in his threefold office. (I am thinking of a real person here, BTW. Admittedly an extreme example.)

Deacons who have a similar problem with false humilty and will gladly sit and watch laity distribute Communion, and who generally act more like a layman with special permissions than a member of the hierarchy.

The permanent diaconate has a special challenge in living out their identity, I must say. From bishops who forbid them (even though he is truly able) to wear clerics, to priests who view permanent deacons as “wanna be preists;” these men have some additional obstacles.

I think many of the problems we see in certain parishes and dioceses can be attributed to this crisis of clerical identity. At its root is a failure to identify oneself according to the authority and worthiness of Christ to whom they are ontologically configured. Any thoughts?
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Thank you for saying so well what I wasn’t able to get across (apparently) on another thread.
 
PaixGioiaAmor,

You’ve demonstrated in other threads how little you know about the Mass (“it is where we tell our story”) and the Eucharist (singing songs together during the preparation makes for communion), all with incredible arrogance and an elitist attitude that certainly isn’t born out of academic accumen. You call yourself a liturgist, yet you’re really an organist who took an “intense 1 week” seminar in liturgy! (See PGS’s intro thread.)

If it is true that your pastor deemed you competent to “do liturgy” in your parish as you claim in your intro, I can see why you think that a priest is “just another man.” It’s not a big stretch here to assume that he suffers with the identity crisis I mention.

Now we can add the effects of the sacament of Holy Orders to the list of things that you know very little about.
 
If a priest prefers to be addressed by his own name, there’s nothing wrong with that. Dressing in secular clothing is also acceptable - do you think a police officer wants to be in uniform when off the job?
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RE a priest dressing in secular clothing: I think priests are required to wear clerical clothing. It isn’t the same as a policeman who puts on a uniform and takes it off - the priest has to be in uniform all the time. Always ready to do the will of God. To administer the last rites or to hear a confession.
A priest has a unique mark of ordination and a unique ministry in the Church. But other than that, he’s just a man. Get over him. He puts his pants on one leg at a time, goes to the bathroom, sometimes longs for sexual contact, and enjoys a good steak dinner just like you and me.
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I’d rather not hear about a priest “longing for sexual contact” (you did say “longs” but it would have been troublesome to construct the sentence around that verb) if you don’t mind. As for the rest - while he is still human he has a special position in the Church. He can’t just pretend that he isn’t a priest when he’s “off duty”. He shouldn’t be addressed by his first name, except maybe by his close family and friends - certainly not by parishioners.

Catholig
 
I think there is a worse “crisis of identity” among instituted ministers than among ordained ministers. Particularly for instituted lectors.

Things that should happen, according to the liturgical books, but often do not are:
“101. In the absence of an instituted lector, other laypersons may be commissioned to proclaim the readings from Sacred Scripture.” (2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal)

“… an instituted reader must wear the distinctive vestment of their office when they go to the lectern to read the word of God. Those who carry out the ministry of reader just for the occasion or even regularly but without institution may go to the lectern in ordinary attire…” (General Introduction to the Lectionary for Mass, n 54.)

“Whenever necessary, the reader should see to the preparation of any members of the faithful who may be appointed to proclaim the readings from Sacred Scripture in liturgical celebrations. But in celebrations presided over by the bishop it is fitting that readers formally instituted proclaim the readings and, if several readers, are present, they should divide the readings accordingly.” (Ceremonial of Bishops, n. 31).

Before men can become ordained ministers they must become instituted ministers. Often they are taught, presented with the example and themselves encouraged to give the example that the instituted ministries do not matter – the above rules need not be followed. So it is not surprising that many, later, also fail to follow the rules about their roles as deacons, priests and bishops.
 
Catholig said:
RE a priest dressing in secular clothing: I think priests are required to wear clerical clothing. It isn’t the same as a policeman who puts on a uniform and takes it off - the priest has to be in uniform all the time. Always ready to do the will of God. To administer the last rites or to hear a confession.

I’d rather not hear about a priest “longing for sexual contact” (you did say “longs” but it would have been troublesome to construct the sentence around that verb) if you don’t mind. As for the rest - while he is still human he has a special position in the Church. He can’t just pretend that he isn’t a priest when he’s “off duty”. He shouldn’t be addressed by his first name, except maybe by his close family and friends - certainly not by parishioners.

Catholig
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Amen and Amen.
 
John_Lilburne said:
Before men can become ordained ministers they must become instituted ministers. Often they are taught, presented with the example and themselves encouraged to give the example that the instituted ministries do not matter – the above rules need not be followed. So it is not surprising that many, later, also fail to follow the rules about their roles as deacons, priests and bishops.
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What is an instituted minister, such as the instituted lector?
How do they function within the hierarchy?
 
Very well said Conciliar.
He totally discounts his role as the bishop’s helper in his threefold office. (I am thinking of a real person here, BTW. Admittedly an extreme example.)
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Do you know my Parish Priest:D

Unfortunately, it’s not just priests that have this crisis of identity. I rarely see nuns walking through our town although there are two convents with I think ten or twelve nuns in each.
 
PatienceAndLove said:
What is an instituted minister, such as the instituted lector?
How do they function within the hierarchy?
Click to expand...
Only men can be instituted as lectors, not women. There is a ceremony for this institution, which normally has a bishop presiding.
A description of the function of the instituted lector is in the 1972 Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam:
“5. The reader is appointed for a function proper to him, that of reading the word of God in the liturgical assembly. Accordingly, he is to proclaim the readings from sacred Scripture, except for the gospel in the Mass and other sacred celebrations; he is to recite the psalm between the readings when there is no psalmist; he is to present the intentions for the general intercessions in the absence of a deacon or cantor; he is to direct the singing and the participation by the faithful; he is to instruct the faithful for the worthy reception of the sacraments. He may also, insofar as may be necessary, take care of preparing other faithful who are appointed on a temporary basis to read the Scriptures in liturgical celebrations. That he may more fittingly and perfectly fulfill these functions, he is to meditate assiduously on sacred Scripture.”
The full text is at romanrite.com/Churchdoc.html .

I have written more about them at romanrite.com/Lectors.html including some of my experience as one.
 
John_Lilburne said:
Only men can be instituted as lectors, not women. There is a ceremony for this institution, which normally has a bishop presiding.
A description of the function of the instituted lector is in the 1972 Motu Proprio Ministeria Quaedam:
“5. The reader is appointed for a function proper to him, that of reading the word of God in the liturgical assembly. Accordingly, he is to proclaim the readings from sacred Scripture, except for the gospel in the Mass and other sacred celebrations; he is to recite the psalm between the readings when there is no psalmist; he is to present the intentions for the general intercessions in the absence of a deacon or cantor; he is to direct the singing and the participation by the faithful; he is to instruct the faithful for the worthy reception of the sacraments. He may also, insofar as may be necessary, take care of preparing other faithful who are appointed on a temporary basis to read the Scriptures in liturgical celebrations. That he may more fittingly and perfectly fulfill these functions, he is to meditate assiduously on sacred Scripture.”
The full text is at romanrite.com/Churchdoc.html .

I have written more about them at romanrite.com/Lectors.html including some of my experience as one.
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Boy, this surely doesn’t happen in my parish! We have women lectors regularly. Excuse my ignorance, but I really have never heard this.😊 If there are not enough men to serve as lectors, then am I correct to assume that either a deacon or a priest is to do this?
 
Teelynn said:
Boy, this surely doesn’t happen in my parish! We have women lectors regularly. Excuse my ignorance, but I really have never heard this.😊 If there are not enough men to serve as lectors, then am I correct to assume that either a deacon or a priest is to do this?
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Part of the “crisis of identity” for instituted lectors is that little is taught about them.
Regarding who can do the jobs of instituted lectors, the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal has:
“208. If a deacon is not present, his proper duties are to be carried out by some of the concelebrants.
In the absence also of other ministers, their proper parts may be entrusted to other suitable members of the faithful; otherwise, they are carried out by some of the concelebrants.”
It also has in the description of “Mass Without a Deacon”:
“135. If no lector is present, the priest himself proclaims all the readings and the Psalm, standing at the ambo.”
 
The majority of Bishops in the United States do not institute as Lectors.

I called my diocese about this and they said that the reason they do not institute Lectors\Acolytes is because it “excludes people”.

I wonder why there is a crisis of identity? The reason is because the identity of the Priesthood and instituted ministers is being constantly attacked. If you can make the Priesthood vague and unfocused then you can allow women to be Priests as no clear identity means it can be redefined.

Attack the identity to redefine it. Evil doesn’t care about education, identity or truth. It seeks to make truth ambiguous and redefine it.

God Bless
Scylla
 
Conciliar said:
PaixGioiaAmor,

You’ve demonstrated in other threads how little you know about the Mass (“it is where we tell our story”) and the Eucharist (singing songs together during the preparation makes for communion), all with incredible arrogance and an elitist attitude that certainly isn’t born out of academic accumen. You call yourself a liturgist, yet you’re really an organist who took an “intense 1 week” seminar in liturgy! (See PGS’s intro thread.)

You trashing me on what you perceive to be my “lack of training” is akin to mocking your arresting officer for not being an expert on the law because his police academy was only two months.

How many hours of classes on liturgy have you had? Have you had 5, 12 hour days of instruction? Have you had continuing education every year in 8 hour intervals? Have you taken liturgy classes offered by your diocese? Have you read on the subject extensively? Have you worked in parishes for 11 years? I have done all of the above.

Or did you read some Adoramus bulletins, watch EWTN, and join these message boards?

If it is true that your pastor deemed you competent to “do liturgy” in your parish as you claim in your intro, I can see why you think that a priest is “just another man.” It’s not a big stretch here to assume that he suffers with the identity crisis I mention.

Now we can add the effects of the sacament of Holy Orders to the list of things that you know very little about.
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Your opinion doesn’t phase me. I will continue to do my job and you will continue to write letters to the bishop about me that are destined for the trash can.
 
It behooves us all to remember that forums are a place for dialogue, discussion and sharing, and that these are to be conducted in an arena of common civility and charity to one another.

One of the best ways to accomplish that is to remove personalization from posts and address content.

It may also be helpful for some to review Post 3 - Helpful Hints for Posting here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=17511
  1. Don’t jump threads. If you get involved in an argument in one thread, it’s considered poor manners to restart the previous argument in the middle of an unrelated thread…
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PaixGioiaAmor said:
But don’t think that playing politics isn’t part of his job. Don’t fool yourself - even the pope does it. Dressing in secular clothing is also acceptable - do you think a police officer wants to be in uniform when off the job?
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Politics is the art or science of Government (Websters Dictionary) Our Holy Father, as head of The Vatican State, of course has to engage in politics.

Your sentence on secular clothing really shows the crises of identity the thread refers to. The priesthood is not a nine to five job or shift work. When I got married (Sacrament) and had kids, I was on duty 24/7. My kids don’t call me by my first name, they call me dad. When a man is ordained (Sacrament), he too is “on duty” 24/7. He has chosen to be a shepard to his flock, like I am to my family. His clerical attire is not just a uniform, but a sign, a pointer to God. When we see a priest or nun in religious clothing our thoughts are lifted to our Lord and Saviour.
 
feargalmac said:
Politics is the art or science of Government (Websters Dictionary) Our Holy Father, as head of The Vatican State, of course has to engage in politics.

Your sentence on secular clothing really shows the crises of identity the thread refers to. The priesthood is not a nine to five job or shift work. When I got married (Sacrament) and had kids, I was on duty 24/7. My kids don’t call me by my first name, they call me dad. When a man is ordained (Sacrament), he too is “on duty” 24/7. He has chosen to be a shepard to his flock, like I am to my family. His clerical attire is not just a uniform, but a sign, a pointer to God. When we see a priest or nun in religious clothing our thoughts are lifted to our Lord and Saviour.
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Marriage is a very good illustration. Of course, far more fitting than a police officer or any other job. Does a husband sometimes get a break? Sure. Do parents sometimes get away without kids? Yea, but they are always who they are. Priests likewise deserve rest from their labors.

I am referring to priests who dress in secular clothing as a matter of choice - even when functioning in their ministry.

“Police officer” is what someone does. “Priest” is who someone is. Since too many clerics seem to struggle with this disctinction, it’s no wonder certain laity do as well.
 
Conciliar said:
Marriage is a very good illustration. Of course, far more fitting than a police officer or any other job. Does a husband sometimes get a break? Sure. Do parents sometimes get away without kids? Yea, but they are always who they are. Priests likewise deserve rest from their labors.

I am referring to priests who dress in secular clothing as a matter of choice - even when functioning in their ministry.

“Police officer” is what someone does. “Priest” is who someone is. Since too many clerics seem to struggle with this disctinction, it’s no wonder certain laity do as well.
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Of course you are correct about the inherrant identity of a priest. But really, I think what you are asking for is not practical and quite inhuman to expect of any person.

I used to work for a priest that, I’m sure, anyone here would have loved - you would have considered him to be highly “orthodox” I’m certain. Let me put it this way: He subscribed to Adoramus and used to encourage me to read it. Even he didn’t wear a collar all the time; going out to dinner or even attending a late evening meeting at the parish he often simply wore a dress shirt and a pair of slacks. Everyone at the parish knew who and what he is and gave him respect. And when going out somewhere where one is not functioning as a priest, there is no real need for it. Even if someone was dying and they needed to give the sacrament of anointing, a priest could still do that in jeans and a t-shirt if they must.

Deacons are also clerics, but most work secular jobs and do not wear their collars there.

I am an advocate of priests and deacons wearing them around the church for the most part. But expecting them to do so at all times because they are “always on the job” is really not fair to them.
 
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