Clerical Crisis of Identity

[Philothea53]

Of course you are correct about the inherrant identity of a priest. But really, I think what you are asking for is not practical and quite inhuman to expect of any person.

I used to work for a priest that, I’m sure, anyone here would have loved - you would have considered him to be highly “orthodox” I’m certain. Let me put it this way: He subscribed to Adoramus and used to encourage me to read it. Even he didn’t wear a collar all the time; going out to dinner or even attending a late evening meeting at the parish he often simply wore a dress shirt and a pair of slacks. Everyone at the parish knew who and what he is and gave him respect. And when going out somewhere where one is not functioning as a priest, there is no real need for it. Even if someone was dying and they needed to give the sacrament of anointing, a priest could still do that in jeans and a t-shirt if they must.

Deacons are also clerics, but most work secular jobs and do not wear their collars there.

I am an advocate of priests and deacons wearing them around the church for the most part. But expecting them to do so at all times because they are “always on the job” is really not fair to them.

Wearing their clerics around the church is preaching to the choir, isn’t it? They serve no purpose other than proclaiming their presence as men of God. To not wear them in public - away from the Church building - says to me they are ashamed or afraid or unwilling to be engaged or … gosh, I really don’t know why they wouldn’t. They are Priests 24/7/365.

 

[Conciliar]

Hi PGA,

As I said in my OP, I had a real priest in mind. He works in a Catholic health care facility and wears secular clothing most of the time. It is not uncommon for the elderly to whom he ministers to ask him for a priest until they get to know him. A family memebr / visitor may never come to know he is a priest. His aim is to be thought of as just another member of the team. He insists on being called by his first name, and won’t let it go for those who prefer to call him “Father.”

This is not the priest you described. I have a good friend who is a priest. He rarely wears clerics to a restaurant. I get it. I ws thinking of a particular cleric who really does seem to see his role as an occupation, and has not appeared to have come to see his priesthood in the light of ontological configuration to Christ. This an identity crisis.

 

[StephenB]

Wearing their clerics around the church is preaching to the choir, isn’t it? They serve no purpose other than proclaiming their presence as men of God. To not wear them in public - away from the Church building - says to me they are ashamed or afraid or unwilling to be engaged or … gosh, I really don’t know why they wouldn’t. They are Priests 24/7/365.

I’m glad I read your post first, because that WAS exactly the phrase I was going to use! (“preaching” to the choir)

Is there codified material on the dress code for a priest outside his sacramental functions?

 

[PatienceAndLove]

Is there codified material on the dress code for a priest outside his sacramental functions?

If not, there should be.

 

[StephenB]

If not, there should be.

I suspect there is and it isn’t in the book of ISAYSO. I seem to recall reading it some where - I think in a CA magazine monthly Q&A from Fr. Peter somebody or another…YEARS ago.
Someone probably knows whom I am referring to,

 

[PatienceAndLove]

There is another thread regarding deacons wearing clericals.

There seems to be a consensus that deacons should be allowed to wear them, but I guess we need to get our priests back in the first.

And not even starting on the older nuns!

 

[Philothea53]

I went searching for some insight on what the ‘rules’ of dress are for Priests and I found this at a very anti-Catholic site. I have added my changes in bold. You can see by reading without the bold, that this man who obviously has many negative feelings about the Church, equates the wearing of the collar with being a Catholic Priest. Why don’t our Priests? I wish I knew.

“Now may I ask what real man of God wouldn’t want to wear this Roman Collar and give out to the world that he is now dressed appropriately to administer the seven sacraments of the Roman Catholic Church? For that is the signal this gives to all Catholics when they see a man so dressed. What real man of God wouldn’t wear this Roman Collar and serve communion and by his dress signify the bread and wine actually become the flesh and blood of Jesus? What real man of God wouldn’t want to give the signal to all Catholics (and -]Anglicans/-] ** the world** for that matter), that by wearing the Roman collar he is ready to baptize into the trinity, perform confirmation of children as Catholics, hear confessions and give penance? All of this stands behind the wearing of this Roman dress ornament.”

 

[feargalmac]

Canon 284 states “Clerics are to wear suitable ecclesiastical dress, in accordance with the norms established by the Episcopal Conference and legitimate local custom.”
The USCCB in a letter from 1998 states “Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.”

To be honest I don’t know what the Irish Bishops have said but I reckon it’s the same.

 

[StephenB]

Canon 284 states “Clerics are to wear suitable ecclesiastical dress, in accordance with the norms established by the Episcopal Conference and legitimate local custom.”
The USCCB in a letter from 1998 states “Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.”

To be honest I don’t know what the Irish Bishops have said but I reckon it’s the same.

Buidhe

Appreciate the info - I thought there was something!

 

[prv]

Canon 284 states “Clerics are to wear suitable ecclesiastical dress, in accordance with the norms established by the Episcopal Conference and legitimate local custom.”
The USCCB in a letter from 1998 states “Outside liturgical functions, a black suit and Roman collar are the usual attire for priests. The use of the cassock is at the discretion of the cleric.”

To be honest I don’t know what the Irish Bishops have said but I reckon it’s the same.

Usual attire…not perpetual. Also, it says “in accordance with the norms established by the Episcopal Conference and legitimate local custom”, not the preferences of what the parishioners want, whether it be clericals or not. (Not attacking the author of this post.)

 

[prv]

I wish everybody would get over what they want a priest to look like.

 

[PatienceAndLove]

I wish everybody would get over what they want a priest to look like.

I don’t think it is so much what we think they should look like, but rather discussing if the wearing of the clerics is a “uniform” or an “defining” part of the priesthood.

 

[Conciliar]

I wish everybody would get over what they want a priest to look like.

For my part, I prefer they look and act like the understand who they are. That’s all.

 

[Philothea53]

For my part, I prefer they look and act like the understand who they are. That’s all.

And in their collars.

 

[Jeanette_L]

I’m new to the Catholic faith, so I know next to nothing about rules…, but I do know that there is something extremely comforting in seeing a priest wear his collar in public situations outside of Church. To know that if something unexpected, urgent should happen, you could identify and turn to this priest with confidence, without waiver.

I find it sad that more non-Catholic ministers are opting to wear them as more Catholics opt out, regardless whether it is permitted or not.

 

[Philothea53]

I’m new to the Catholic faith, so I know next to nothing about rules…, but I do know that there is something extremely comforting in seeing a priest wear his collar in public situations outside of Church. To know that if something unexpected, urgent should happen, you could identify and turn to this priest with confidence, without waiver.

I find it sad that more non-Catholic ministers are opting to wear them as more Catholics opt out, regardless whether it is permitted or not.

Amen, Sister!

I have a cross in my car that says, “I am Catholic. In case of emergency, call a Priest.” Wow, praying I’m not involved in an emergency

 

[chicago]

This has become a clerical dress thread, but to return to the original topic for a moment, Cardinal George insightfully commented a few years back that he thought things have changed in understanding clerical identity. We used to understand clearly what it was that a priest “does”, he noted, but perhaps not the depths of who a priest “is”. Today we have a much better theological appreciation of the nature of the priesthood, but there seems to be ambiguity and consternation as to what practical role he should be performing in the parish and life of the Church. This is made all the more challenging by the addition of many more lay people who are involved in various apostolates and areas of service to the Church.

I do think that the two concepts of who a priest is and what he does need to be better reconciled.

 

[Jeanette_L]

This has become a clerical dress thread, but to return to the original topic for a moment, Cardinal George insightfully commented a few years back that he thought things have changed in understanding clerical identity. We used to understand clearly what it was that a priest “does”, he noted, but perhaps not the depths of who a priest “is”. Today we have a much better theological appreciation of the nature of the priesthood, but there seems to be ambiguity and consternation as to what practical role he should be performing in the parish and life of the Church. This is made all the more challenging by the addition of many more lay people who are involved in various apostolates and areas of service to the Church.

I do think that the two concepts of who a priest is and what he does need to be better reconciled.

And part of the issue is - because there is a shortage of priests, the burden placed upon them is tremendous. They usually have much larger parishes to serve and are overwhelmed with the demands placed upon them. Hopefully, this is going to be a short term issue, although that doesn’t help the priests we have now.

 

[Conciliar]

And part of the issue is - because there is a shortage of priests, the burden placed upon them is tremendous. They usually have much larger parishes to serve and are overwhelmed with the demands placed upon them. Hopefully, this is going to be a short term issue, although that doesn’t help the priests we have now.

One problem feeds the other, I believe. What I mean is this - one of the ways in which God calls young men to the priesthood is through the example of their parish priest. The more priests shy away from their authentic identity, the less likely they are to attract vocations. Can it be proven? I don’t know, but my intuition tells me that Father “Consensus Builder / Delegator / Govern by Committee / Offend No One” doesn’t stir the desire to answer a calling to the priesthood like Father “Teacher / Leader / Sanctifier” does. Far fewer would look at the former and say, “I want to be like him,” and the ones that do, perpetuate the crisis.

 

[scylla]

Your right, too many Priests are emasculated by their fear of being real men, as that would offend some people. So they end up being cowardly, non-judgemental, non-confrontive, people pleasers.

The nuns end up shedding their habits, looking like butch lesbians and trying to act like Priests.

So where is the Priest role model today? Is there one?

Scylla