Clerical narcissism and lent

[YoungTradCath]

To Ad lib has never been allowed. It is illicit to change the words of the Mass, that is what the Roman Missal, or previously the Sacramentary, is for. The words of the Mass have been chosen by the Church for a reason. It’s not up to the parish priest to make it better, or more his style.

Of course it’s allowed. Or, rather, it was. The Missal used to say “in these or similar words” everywhere. In practice, that meant, “whatever words you want.”

I don’t know if the Ecce agnus dei was allowed to be ad libbed, but I do know that many parts were allowed such.

 

[Cathryn]

Of course it’s allowed. Or, rather, it was. The Missal used to say “in these or similar words” everywhere. In practice, that meant, “whatever words you want.”

I don’t know if the Ecce agnus dei was allowed to be ad libbed, but I do know that many parts were allowed such.

A general greeting is quite different than the words of the Mass. Main prayers of the Mass have not been allowed to be ad libbed.

 

[Cathryn]

sacrosanctum concilium #22: (1) regulation of the sacred liturgy depends solely on the authority of the church, that is, on the apostolic see, and, as laws may determine, on the bishop. (2) in virtue of power conceded by law, the regulation of the liturgy within certain defined limits belongs also to various kinds of bishops’ conferences, legitimately established, with competence in given territories. (3) therefore no other person, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the liturgy on his own authority.

promulgated by his holiness pope paul vi on december 4, 1963

 

[christofirst]

To Ad lib has never been allowed. It is illicit to change the words of the Mass, that is what the Roman Missal, or previously the Sacramentary, is for. The words of the Mass have been chosen by the Church for a reason. It’s not up to the parish priest to make it better, or more his style.

This has always been my understanding as well. For me, this was the real point Weigel was making (like his style or not; it had not occurred to me that he rubbed so many the wrong way)

The criticism is not aimed at priests who are struggling to learn the new revision. I certainly have every sympathy for them. It is for those who continue to ad-lib their own words where the rubrics state otherwise, or worse, refuse to follow the new revision at all (I have encountered one priest like this, but that was early on. Hopefully, he has since come around.)

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

To Ad lib has never been allowed. It is illicit to change the words of the Mass, that is what the Roman Missal, or previously the Sacramentary, is for. The words of the Mass have been chosen by the Church for a reason. It’s not up to the parish priest to make it better, or more his style.

Certain parts of a the former Roman Missal did in fact say “in these of similar words.” It wasn’t everywhere but there were more than a few instances.

 

[Cathryn]

Certain parts of a the former Roman Missal did in fact say “in these of similar words.” It wasn’t everywhere but there were more than a few instances.

They however were some introductions to prayers and not the prayers themselves and certainly not the AgnusDei.

 

[YoungTradCath]

They however were some introductions to prayers and not the prayers themselves and certainly not the AgnusDei.

Not the Agnus Dei, the Ecce agnus dei. “Behold the lamb of God, behold Him Who takes away the sins of the world…”

 

[Cathryn]

Not the Agnus Dei, the Ecce agnus dei. “Behold the lamb of God, behold Him Who takes away the sins of the world…”

There is nothing wrong with calling the “Agnus Dei”, the “Agnus Dei”. Or if using English, “Lamb of God”. Church documents use this as the name of the prayer. “Ecce Agnus Dei” would be required when the priest prays the prayer. And this prayer has never been allowed to be ad libbed.

Here is the Church using the name “Agnus Dei”. There are other documents as well, and Agnus Dei is used.

Redemptionis Sacramentum
On certain matters to be observed or to be avoided
regarding the Most Holy Eucharist

[73.] In the celebration of Holy Mass the breaking of the Eucharistic Bread – done only by the Priest celebrant, if necessary with the help of a Deacon or of a concelebrant – begins after the exchange of peace, while the Agnus Dei is being recited. For the gesture of breaking bread “carried out by Christ at the Last Supper, which in apostolic times gave the whole eucharistic action its name, signifies that the faithful, though they are many, are made one Body in the communion of the one Bread of Life who is Christ, who died and rose for the world’s salvation” (cf. 1 Cor 10,17).[153] For this reason the rite must be carried out with great reverence.[154] Even so, it should be brief. The abuse that has prevailed in some places, by which this rite is unnecessarily prolonged and given undue emphasis, with laypersons also helping in contradiction to the norms, should be corrected with all haste.[155]

 

[YoungTradCath]

There is nothing wrong with calling the “Agnus Dei”, the “Agnus Dei”. Or if using English, “Lamb of God”. Church documents use this as the name of the prayer. “Ecce Agnus Dei” would be required when the priest prays the prayer. And this prayer has never been allowed to be ad libbed.

Here is the Church using the name “Agnus Dei”. There are other documents as well, and Agnus Dei is used.

Redemptionis Sacramentum
On certain matters to be observed or to be avoided
regarding the Most Holy Eucharist

[73.] In the celebration of Holy Mass the breaking of the Eucharistic Bread – done only by the Priest celebrant, if necessary with the help of a Deacon or of a concelebrant – begins after the exchange of peace, while the Agnus Dei is being recited. For the gesture of breaking bread “carried out by Christ at the Last Supper, which in apostolic times gave the whole eucharistic action its name, signifies that the faithful, though they are many, are made one Body in the communion of the one Bread of Life who is Christ, who died and rose for the world’s salvation” (cf. 1 Cor 10,17).[153] For this reason the rite must be carried out with great reverence.[154] Even so, it should be brief. The abuse that has prevailed in some places, by which this rite is unnecessarily prolonged and given undue emphasis, with laypersons also helping in contradiction to the norms, should be corrected with all haste.[155]

The Agnus Dei and the Ecce agnus dei are two different things. The Agnus Dei is, “Lamb of God, you take away the sins of the world, have mercy on us…” The Ecce agnus dei is, “Behold the Lamb of God, behold Him Who takes away the sins of the world…”

 

[Cathryn]

You are correct. At the same time, the priest has never been allowed to change the words of the Ecce Agnus Dei or any of the actual prayers of the Mass.

 

[TigerKitty]

What about adding “rites” to the end of the Mass, after communion and before the final blessing? We moved and are at a new parish now, and after the collective prayer at the end of communion, we have: 1) 5-10 min of announcements, 2) having parisioners with birthdays for the week stand up and then blessing them and singing happy birthday, 3) having those with wedding anniversaries stand up and blessing them, 4) report on how much money was collected last week, 5) a joke told by the priest. This all adds about 15 min to the end of Mass - before the final blessing!!! I would seriously leave after communion, but I don’t out of respect for the blessed sacrament.

I thought the point was to end communion and then have the final blessing to send people out into the world, taking Christ with them, as soon as possible after communion.

I’m ready to pull my hair out. I get angry at the “abuse” of the liturgy. It seems “gratuitous” to me, and detracts from the liturgy. When I tell my husband how it bothers me, he tells me to “be nice” and don’t make waves.

Should I voice my concerns to the priest? We’ve only been there a few months, and we can WALK to the church, but I’m seriously considering driving to the next parish over.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

What about adding “rites” to the end of the Mass, after communion and before the final blessing? We moved and are at a new parish now, and after the collective prayer at the end of communion, we have: 1) 5-10 min of announcements, 2) having parisioners with birthdays for the week stand up and then blessing them and singing happy birthday, 3) having those with wedding anniversaries stand up and blessing them, 4) report on how much money was collected last week, 5) a joke told by the priest. This all adds about 15 min to the end of Mass - before the final blessing!!! I would seriously leave after communion, but I don’t out of respect for the blessed sacrament.

After the Prayer after Communion is the appropriate place, according to the GIRM, to have announcements. However, they should be “brief”:

1. When the prayer after Communion is concluded, brief announcements to the people may be made, if they are needed.

 

[christofirst]

Here’s an example from my neck of the woods: One of our priests will not say the word “men” while saying the Nicene Creed during Mass. “For us men and for our salvation…”, but he always says, “For us and for our salvation…”

I know him to be a good and holy priest, a gentle soul with many years of service to the Church. He leaves the word out because he considers it sexist and offensive to women (he said as much years ago). In this case I think the provocative term “narcisistic” would apply, because he is putting his opinion before the wisdom of the Church; the common knowledge that here the term “men” refers to both sexes.

 

[promethius]

After the Prayer after Communion is the appropriate place, according to the GIRM, to have announcements. However, they should be “brief”:

1. When the prayer after Communion is concluded, brief announcements to the people may be made, if they are needed.

You beat me to it, Father!

I would only add to your response that, while announcements should be brief, this is not because the goal is to shuffle people out of the sanctuary as swiftly as possible so that they can “go out while they’re still united to Jesus”…

 

[TigerKitty]

Thank you for the reference to the GIRM. I was not aware that announcements were allowed at that time…

 

[joanofarc2008]

Coming from the South - I think brief can often be a relative term and sometimes we need to look at things in the context of the community we are in.

 

[promethius]

Coming from the South - I think brief can often be a relative term and sometimes we need to look at things in the context of the community we are in.

This is true. In those countries where people can’t read and they walk MILES to get to mass, and the mass turns into an all day affair with communal meals and such afterwards, 15-20 minutes for announcements is probably not only relatively brief, but also NECESSARY to maintain functionality of the church.

We Americans are always in such a rush…

 

[jmcrae]

Thank you for the reference to the GIRM. I was not aware that announcements were allowed at that time…

It is the proper place for them, in fact.

But people only remember the first one and the last one, so if they are to be effective, there should only be two of them - and they need to be short and memorable. For the rest, there is the Bulletin, and everyone should take a Bulletin with them, and read it, and participate in one or two mid-week activities each week - at least one, to make friends and be joined in a very real way with your parish, and not more than two, so as to avoid burn-out.