Cleveland Plain Dealer butchers the Church

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The Cleveland Plain Dealer ran an article today about the Church since Vatican II. Horribly biased (on the liberal side) to say the least. blog.cleveland.com/metro/2009/01/vatican_ii_reforms_set_in_moti.html

I can’t figure out which part of the article is my favorite; the interviewing of a Future Church “nun” as accurate and relevant testimony, or saying that John XXIII “proclaimed it was time to drag the church out of the Dark Ages and into the modern world.” Help me choose, guys! :hmmm:
 
I vote for the “nun”.
“You went from a guy with his back to you, speaking in a language you didn’t understand, to where you were one of the celebrants,” said Schenk. “You went from a spectator to a player. It was all very exciting and new.”
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:mad:
 
The howls of the wolves will grow louder, but soon they will fade.
 
Fr. Z tore that article to sheds. When will journalist learn?
 
What a moronic article. Someone was really obsessed with women covering their heads. I don’t think it took a Ecumenical council for priests to offer communion to women whose heads weren’t covered. And this obsession people have over the priest with his back to the church as some sort of personal affront is laughable too. Gee, the priest with his hands in the Orans position staring at the missal making no eye contact really makes me feel like I am a part of the action too… Because of stupid lectors and Eucharistic ministers, if anything, the priest is less involved. In fact - he could come in, do the homily and the consecration, and then disappear and he wouldn’t be missed.

Don’t take this as my dislike for the OF. But to call it some sort of beacon of light in comparison to the EF’s darkness is idiotic.
 
What a great response!!! Couldn’t have said it better myself. Thanks for the link

It is amazing to me that so many people who hate (yes I said HATE) the Church so much found nothing better to do with their lives than pursue a vocation within the Church so they could more effectively spread their bitterness from within. You would think there were no protestant religions pre V-II that these people could go to. Personally, I think they just didn’t have the guts to leave the church so just bastardized it from inside.

But, as you can tell, the tide is turing in tradition’s favor - and not false tradition, but to the end of creating a stronger more vibrant and inclusive Church which stands on it past to build its future.

The folks who want to use perverted V-II interpretations as a means to water down the liturgy and tradition of the Church are starting to lose steam; absurd articles like this prove it.
 
I hope it’s OK with you Magnum, but I’ve chosen to quote from the link/version which includes Fr. Zhulsdorf’s commentary (w/commentary in red highlights) because I found it a little easier (thks FCEGM) to read :

“…But the newly empowered laity would speak up, Not a problem if their shepherds would and lead them and formed them. But they DIDN’T.] unleashing a host of hot-button issues that today remain subjects of fierce debate: Ordination of women, marriage for priests, gay sexual intercourse and the use of contraception—all, to various degrees, not approved by the church hierarchy. [This phrase makes it sound as if the “hierarchy” can simply approve things, as if there is no role for the Church’s tradition, or of reflection on natural law or Scripture.]…”
I would even hesitate to say horribly biased on the liberal side. These are better described IMO as people who have practically stepped outside of the Church. For example, there is no such thing as gay sexual intercourse. This is an attempt to impose one’s own agenda (what a coincidence!.. the very same thing they claim to be pooh poohing) on others. Sexual intercourse is defined as copulation between members of the opposite sex. What they’re referring to already has been defined adequately using less nebulous terms.

One sentence of a particular sermon I heard from a priest up here at St. Joseph’s Oratory and which has always stayed with me: " We humans are created in God’s image, but we have this tendency to try and re-create God in our own image." [Fr. Real Frechette C.S.C.]

I believe we’re seeing here on a parallel, traces of the fanatical present in their attempts to re-create the Church in their own image. It can happen easily when we refuse to submit to authority. I find I have less of a tendency to do this personally if I avail myself of the sacrament of Confession as needed, and if I do what I can to ***" pray [esp the holy rosary] ,fast, and obey."… ***🙂
 
I dont see how feeding the hungry has any to do with changing the Liturgy or the Tradition. can anyone see the disastrous consequences from all the changes? couldnt it just been sad: Catholics lets be more active in the world affairs without changing the Traditions handed on to us from the beginning?

i feel as if we have been thrown at the wolves without any protection.

correct if am wrong.
 
wisdomseeker said:
I dont see how feeding the hungry has any to do with changing the Liturgy or the Tradition. can anyone see the disastrous consequences from all the changes? couldnt it just been sad: Catholics lets be more active in the world affairs without changing the Traditions handed on to us from the beginning?

i feel as if we have been thrown at the wolves without any protection.

correct if am wrong.
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One would think that the church had never founded hospitals, orphanages, schools or did anything to help people who were hungry or homeless before VII according to this article.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
One would think that the church had never founded hospitals, orphanages, schools or did anything to help people who were hungry or homeless before VII according to this article.
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very true. the Catholic Church the builder of civilization. people seem to forget. instead of reminds of past good, it was decided that changes would do much better works. we see now it was not such a good idea. or was it?

these changes have created monsters. disobedience and freedom for doing what?

i remember my priest making comments about the holy father on VII. he was kind of afraid that the pope would stop VII. he was happy that it was not the case.

i am always in trouble with him because i talk too much. i must say he is a gentle man. he puts up with me.

:highprayer: :byzsoc:
 
You sure that original article was from a Catholic? It sounds more like the “Catholic Church” I grew up with as a Southern Baptist. I wonder if this O’Malley figure is aware all Catholics go to Hell? Sheesh, if you don’t want to be Catholic then why can’t you just leave the Church!? People like me left Protestantism to join the Church for a reason, and it wasn’t so we could be told to act like Protestants. :mad:

That’s my rant…as for the “favorite” quote or whatever, I think I’d have to go with how we all apparently celebrate Mass together, every last one of us in the congregation - or would he rather we call it the audience? or the commune? or the coven?

Fooey. :mad:
 
My “new” **favorite quote by 3 Sanctus **(really made me LOL , so well put and right to the point 🙂 ) :
3Sanctus said:
…People like me left Protestantism to join the Church for a reason, and it wasn’t so we could be told to act like Protestants. :mad:

Fooey. :mad:
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👍 👍 👍
 
Yeah, Fr. Z really tore that article apart!

Good thing these whiny liberals are going to shuffle off this mortal coil…
 
Thanks, NeedImprovement. 😃 😛

I figure I at least always know what NOT to do… …like attend the local NO parish that looks like a Protestant Church with a…oh that’s a little processional crucifix behind the altar…I think… Lol.
 
3Sanctus said:
Thanks, NeedImprovement. 😃 😛

I figure I at least always know what NOT to do… … Lol.
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Which places you more than a few steps ahead of me (😃 ) , I always seem to run myself face-first into a wall sooner or later…:o

A considerable amount of our fellow members posting in this thread subtly indicated their senses of humour were still intact. I think that may be the most positive sign of all … considering what we’re required to endure sometimes…really enjoyed reading everyone’s posts here.

Thanks.
 
Maybe you should wear a bicycle helmet just in case, NeedImprovement. 😉
 
:hmmm:

I might have to opt for the goalie’s mask instead … not so much for the additional facial protection, but just so no one can accuse me of…(from Magnum V8 - the OP’s original link provided) :

…"We have educated people in the congregations today who don’t just say, 'Yes sir, yes sir….’

I’m a lot less worried about someone accusing me of being “educated” … just never happens…🙂
 
I guess complaining about people saying, “Yes sir, yes sir,” is the closest they could get to a legitimate argument fo priestesses - then they’d be saying, “Yes ma’am, yes ma’am,” instead. 😃

Speaking of priestesses, I tried to point out to my Episcopalian friend once that they have priestesses, but he insisted female priests aren’t priestesses. :rolleyes: Go figure, lol.
 
NeedImprovement, is that because you’re not educated or because song-and-dance-Mess Catholics value knowledge more than they value Jesus?

That’s kinda mean I guess…but thoroughly tongue-in-cheek. 😉
 
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