Close Baptist friends vs. MY Catholic faith

[fdesales]

The Jews had nothing to do with the removal of the Gospels. The extra books found in the Alexandrian canon, but not in the Palestinian canon are call the Apocrypha by the Protestants.

I am not speaking about the Apocrypha. My tactic is to transcend such talk by undermining the entire idea that we must “follow the Jews” in determining what is the Canon. My logic goes beyond arguing about the Alexandrian v the Palestinian canon (if there was such a thing in the first century…)

The Jews did not, nor continue to accept, the idea that the Gospels are Sacred Scriptures. Thus, Christians must declare Jewish determinations on such issues as moot.

The idea of “canon” is whether a community accepts “X” as God’s Word. Scriptures, even the Gospels, are not self-authenticating. They require men, led by the Spirit, to determine if “X” is indeed from God. The Jews felt that the Gospels of the NT were not inspired by God.

THUS, my statement is correct, the Jews decided in the first century that the Gospels were not Sacred, not from God. They even exercised a curse upon anyone who suggested otherwise! Such an attitude was part and parcel why Christianity and Judaism went their separate ways in the first century.

Regards

 

[SeanTom]

Tomb5

CCC 1854 & 1855 quoted: "Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture, became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

“Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.”

Offenses against the Ten Commandments are considered to be grave, or mortal sins.

Offenses of a less serious matter are venial sins. Venial sin does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of "God; it does not break the covenant with God, as does a mortal sin. But continually committing venial sins disposes us, little by little, to commit mortal sins.

 

[Jason_1977]

Tomb5

CCC 1854 & 1855 quoted: "Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture, became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

"Mortal sin destroys charity in the heart of man by a grave violation of God’s law; it turns man away from God, who is his ultimate end and his beatitude, by preferring an inferior good to him.

“Venial sin allows charity to subsist, even though it offends and wounds it.”

Offenses against the Ten Commandments are considered to be grave, or mortal sins.

Offenses of a less serious matter are venial sins. Venial sin does not set us in direct opposition to the will and friendship of "God; it does not break the covenant with God, as does a mortal sin. But continually committing venial sins disposes us, little by little, to commit mortal sins.

That’s great…but I’m trying to draw a parallel in scripture where it is demonstrated…any ideas?

 

[Tomb54]

That’s great…but I’m trying to draw a parallel in scripture where it is demonstrated…any ideas?

The best scripture to support this is here

1001.If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 John 5:15-17

 

[Jason_1977]

The best scripture to support this is here

1001.If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
1 John 5:15-17

Perfect…thanks!!!

 

[kristanl]

Kristani,

Be careful saying that Jesus used all the books. The canon of the Hebrew bible wasn’t decided until some time in the 2nd century.

Luther did not want to include the 7 books in Greek, but eventually did include them after the NT. In the 19th century they were removed from Protestant bibles. One reason Luther and other Protestants didn’t want them was theological. Maccabees (sp?) was particularly troublesome because it speaks of praying for the dead which really smacks of purgatory; a concept unique to Catholicism.

The Jews in Christ’s time believed that they were God’s chosen people. They were the chosen because they belonged to the 12 tribes of Israel. Catholic teaching is similar. Catholics have a one to one relationship with Jesus, but we also believe in the teachings of a Church that Christ founded and was unified until the Reformation.

A Baptist friend moved and told me that his family went to several churches then found one with the fellowship they were most comfortable with. He joined because they had a charismatic minister and the people were friendly. What happens if the minister leaves?
Where is there something transcendent beyond the pastor and friendly people? Maybe it works for him, but not for me.

Having said all this, I’m happy for anyone who finds Christ be it in whatever faith tradition. I’m on an evangalization group in our parish. We try to make the faith of churchgoing Catholics stronger, get inactive Catholics back to the faith, and offer a place to the unchurched. We specifically do not target people who are faithful to Christ in their tradition. I would ask your friends to treat you in the same manner. You and the lady friend should concentrate on what unites you instead of what divides you. If she can not accept your Catholicism you may not want to go further with her. She does not respect your beliefs so she may not understand how you feel about other things.

Well it can be HIGHLY pressumed that Jesus did use the books, since his apostles who wrote NT books, quoted some of these books… I can give you some verses:

Matt 6:14- Sirach 28:2
Matt 27:39-42 - Wis 2:16-20
Rom 1:20-32 - Wis 13-14
Rom 9:21 - Wis 15:7
Heb 1:3 - Wis 7:26
Heb 11:35-40 - 2 Macc 6:18- 7:42
James 1:9 - Sir 5:11-13
1 Peter 1:6 - Wis 3:3

So you can assume from this that if Jesus’ apostles had assess to the books, so did he.

 

[kristanl]

Perfect…thanks!!!

More verses on Venial and mortal sins:

1 John 5:16-17 proves degrees of sin, distingushing between deadly sin and that which is not deadly.
James 1:14-15, St. James. distinguishes desire from sin, and beginning sin from mature sin which brings death. Sin that kills the life of grace in the soul is a mortal sin. Sin that only wounds and disfigures the soul is venial.

This verse is more so related to the idea of purgatory, but you may be able to throw it into the differences, and what happens when you repent.
2 Sam 12:13-14 - God forgave the guilt of David’s sin, but he still required reparation in the form of suffering. A man might forgive a vandal for breaking his window, but still insist that he repair the damage.

 

[NHInsider]

I think the best book for sharing the faith with evangelicals is still Alan Schreck’s Catholic and Christian. I’ve lost count of how many copies I’ve given away.

Others to have on your own shelf are Mark Shea’s By What Authority? and Tom Howard’s Evangelical isn’t Enough.