Close encounter with a demon?

[DonaNobis_Pacem]

We all know, from the Prayer to St. Michael, that demons roam the earth seeking the ruin of souls, even though we can’t see them. However, I have a story about what was possibly a close encounter with such a being; though it is now but a memory, it still produces a shiver down my spine at the thought of it.

I had gone for a day to a meeting with the executive board members of a youth ministry known as Hard as Nails (the young man who started the ministry is a good, orthodox Catholic and is ON FIRE for Jesus through his “tough love” approach to young people of faith) to propose a new layout for their Web site. (Just a note: in the end, they went with a professional who designs Christian Web sites, but that’s neither here nor there.) We were gathered around the table in the retreat house they had reserved for the weekend, located on the property of the Blue Army Shrine, and after meeting for some time to go over business, the group decided to go to the chapel of the shrine for some quiet time in adoration. I joined them and spent time in prayer; after a while, I got up and left the chapel, then headed to the gift shop to peruse their items for sale.

I was looking over the books on the shelves and picked one up on the Brown Scapular of Our Lady of Mt. Carmel. As I was flipping through the pages, reading it briefly, a woman had come into the gift shop and was beginning to complain. I didn’t think anything of it, until her ranting became louder and more incensed; she began to go on about how people come into the adoration chapel “improperly dressed” and how she would “never let [her] children dress so disrespectfully”. However, I finally looked up from the book and listened as the woman turned on the poor girl working at the gift shop counter, flinging all kinds of accusations at her when the young lady hadn’t done anything wrong. The girl was getting visibly upset, and so was I. I was not totally aware of it at the time, but I sensed that there was a presence in the small shop, and I put the book in my hands back on the shelf as fear began to seize me.

Eventually, I couldn’t listen to the woman anymore, and it seemed the girl behind the counter (who was in tears by that point) was also afraid of the woman. I fled the gift shop and met up with the members of the youth ministry’s executive board, who had just left the adoration chapel, and related to them what happened. I was crying and very shaken up. They walked with me outside, then I ran like the dickens away from the building back to the retreat house; once everyone was gathered in the small “living room”, they had me sit down and all surrounded the chair to pray with, and over, me. They reminded me that God has not given us, as Catholics, a Spirit of fear and weakness, but a Spirit of courage and strength.

Is it possible a demonic presence had indeed been there in the gift shop and I had sensed it? Or perhaps the woman had good intentions and just got out of hand?

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I’d say that’s very possible. I doubt that the woman was possessed, but the demon was probably leaning heavily on her emotions.

 

[beckycmarie]

It’s possible. Demons can encourage conflict and discord in a situation. It’s also possible the woman was mentally disturbed. In either case, one thing to do instead of running is to pray. It’s the best weapon we have in spiritual warfare.

Be not afraid of the devil and his antics; God is so much stronger. Demons are chained dogs. They cannot attack us unless God permits it, and if He does so, it is for our own good.

Spiritual Warfare Prayers

 

[Cari]

Read anything by Fr. Amorth. He suggests (and I don’t think he’s alone in this one) that many times what we Westerners call mental illness is actually oppression (which is different from possession) by demonic spirits. Not in all cases, of course, but more often than we might realize.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Read anything by Fr. Amorth. He suggests (and I don’t think he’s alone in this one) that many times what we Westerners call mental illness is actually oppression (which is different from possession) by demonic spirits. Not in all cases, of course, but more often than we might realize.

That makes sense. In the New Testament, Jesus banishes demons from many people whose symptoms appear to be merely natural physical disorders.

I suspect that what Fr. Amorth said about mental illness is true for a lot of “natural” problems. Many of the medical problems may have natural explanations, but the natural physical world is deeply entwined with the spiritual world, so both the devil and God can reach out to control the physically natural.

 

[beckycmarie]

Read anything by Fr. Amorth. He suggests (and I don’t think he’s alone in this one) that many times what we Westerners call mental illness is actually oppression (which is different from possession) by demonic spirits. Not in all cases, of course, but more often than we might realize.

Cari is correct. People can experience varying levels of demonization that are not necessarily a full-blown possession. The problem has become pandemic with widespread involvement in New Age and occult practices. Hence the need for deliverance ministries. I only know of one Catholic deliverance ministry, the St. Pio Center for Deliverance Counseling.

 

[beckycmarie]

That makes sense. In the New Testament, Jesus banishes demons from many people whose symptoms appear to be merely natural physical disorders.

I suspect that what Fr. Amorth said about mental illness is true for a lot of “natural” problems. Many of the medical problems may have natural explanations, but the natural physical world is deeply entwined with the spiritual world, so both the devil and God can reach out to control the physically natural.

Demons can also piggyback on an existing mental illness and make the problem worse.

It’s important for someone who thinks they may be possessed or opressed to get a doctor’s opinion to rule out a natural explanation. True cases of possession are quite rare.

 

[DonaNobis_Pacem]

It’s possible. Demons can encourage conflict and discord in a situation. It’s also possible the woman was mentally disturbed. In either case, one thing to do instead of running is to pray. It’s the best weapon we have in spiritual warfare.

Well, I would have prayed, but the situation was unfamiliar to me. I hadn’t seen anything like it before, and my first instinct was to run. Next time, though, I’ll remember your advice.

Be not afraid of the devil and his antics; God is so much stronger. Demons are chained dogs. They cannot attack us unless God permits it, and if He does so, it is for our own good.

Spiritual Warfare Prayers

Thank you so much for the link to the Spiritual Warfare Prayers, Becky. I’ll make sure to bookmark the page.

 

[beckycmarie]

Well, I would have prayed, but the situation was unfamiliar to me. I hadn’t seen anything like it before, and my first instinct was to run. Next time, though, I’ll remember your advice.

I should probably add that if you think you’re in physical danger and you have the opportunity to escape, running is the smart option. But in the event of a verbal attack like this one, you could say the Saint Michael prayer and a Hail Mary. Demons are terrified of the Blessed Mother; because of her obedience and humility, she is the opposite of Lucifer.

Before I got involved with a spiritual warfare apostolate, I wouldn’t have known what to do in that situation, either.

 

[DJgang]

Sounds like you could be sensitive to evil.

I have no additional advice, but I am curious…

Did you go back and check on the poor girl that was being assaulted?

God bless.

 

[DonaNobis_Pacem]

I didn’t, unfortunately. Needless to say, she was as badly shaken up as I was. Since I hadn’t encountered a situation before where someone was oppressed by a demon–such as in the case of the woman going off on a tirade about “disrespectful” dress, against a gift shop worker who hadn’t done anything to her–I didn’t realize prayer was available to me. I don’t think I did it out of selfishness or indifference to the girl who was getting the brunt of the verbal assault; I was so afraid of being the next one attacked that I beat a hasty retreat out of the gift shop, even though I was at the other end and further away from the woman.

 

[beckycmarie]

Since I hadn’t encountered a situation before where someone was oppressed by a demon–such as in the case of the woman going off on a tirade about “disrespectful” dress, against a gift shop worker who hadn’t done anything to her–I didn’t realize prayer was available to me.

It’s important not to try to diagnose someone as oppressed or possessed unless you are trained to do so. The deliverance ministry I do a little volunteer work for requires seven years of training for its counselors. Trying to identify someone as demonized without training is like trying to be a doctor when you don’t know first aid.

Praying is a good course of action if you suspect demonization. Even if the person isn’t demonized, the prayers can help them either way.

It’s possible the woman in the store could have been demonized, could have had a mental illness, or it could have been another illness, like low blood sugar due to diabetes. In any case, it’s best to leave the diagnoses to the experts.

 

[DJgang]

Now, remember, we have no idea for sure that she was oppressed by a demon. We are not experts. Just pray for her now.

I’m sure you were blind sided by the whole situation. It would be very upsetting.

 

[DonaNobis_Pacem]

Sorry. I’ll remember that.

It was upsetting, DJgang. But I’ve prayed for the woman and also for the girl working in the gift shop.

 

[beckycmarie]

Sorry. I’ll remember that.

It was upsetting, DJgang. But I’ve prayed for the woman and also for the girl working in the gift shop.

Don’t sweat it - they don’t usually cover this stuff in CCD and in homilies.

You did the best thing you could do by praying for both women.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

It’s important not to try to diagnose someone as oppressed or possessed unless you are trained to do so. The deliverance ministry I do a little volunteer work for requires seven years of training for its counselors. Trying to identify someone as demonized without training is like trying to be a doctor when you don’t know first aid.

It’s true that we can make mistakes. And it’s not like DonaNobis_Pacem started acting on this by declaring loudly, “I banish you, evil spirit!” But sensing evil or righteous spirits happens. If I see a demon tomorrow and it starts throwing furniture around, I don’t have to wait for a professional to tell me it’s a demon. If I just see the demon, the same is often true. If I just sense it, the same. In this case, DonaNobis has described a sensing experience combined with action on the part of the spirit. So there are two reasons for thinking one was present, not just one.

I guess that what I’m trying to say is that we’re entitled to our own opinions on these things, and the Lord gives people the discernment of spirits so that they can act on it (through prayer or other), not so that they can rely exclusively on other people’s discernment.

Which does not negate the value of seeking advice if unsure, of course. Nothing wrong with getting a second opinion.

 

[beckycmarie]

Lief,

I wasn’t disagreeing that there may have been a demonic presence. I was pointing out that unless trained to do so, we should not diagnose someone as demonically oppressed or possessed.

By the way, saying things like, “I banish you, evil spirit” is imprecatory language that the Holy See has prohibited for use by anyone outside a formal solemn exorcism.

You can read about it in the document, On The Current Norms Governing Exorcisms.

We should not use “I” language with demons, saying things such as “In the name of Jesus Christ, I command you to…”

You can, however, use “deprecatory” language, in which you ask the Father to command, rebuke, or cast out the demon. A prayer such as, “In the name of Jesus Christ, Father, I ask you to command this demon of …” is okay.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

I’m afraid your link doesn’t work, so I can’t check it out. But people’s being not allowed to try to exorcise an evil spirit relates only to trying to banish a spirit from someone who might be possessed, right? If you are sensing a spirit in your house and no one else is around, I think you would be allowed to say, “I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to leave.”

The problem mainly comes in when people try banishing demons from people they incorrectly think are possessed, and thus causing psychological harm. So I can laypeople being forbidden from exorcising spirits from people they think are possessed. And aside from the issue of discernment, there’s the issue of training.

But if there’s an evil spirit in your home, would you have to ask the Vatican or a priest before commanding it to be gone?

I’m not saying that you’re saying this. I’m just asking it as a question.

I personally don’t think you would have to ask permission for that kind of thing. I suspect that where the limitations come in is only where you’re wanting to exorcise a spirit from a possessed person.

But about what we were saying earlier, I really don’t know what you mean by “diagnose.” Do you mean that you think no one is entitled to have an opinion about whether anyone else is or has been possessed?

 

[beckycmarie]

That’s weird, the link works for me.

The bottom line is, the Holy See says one should never address a demon directly, whether it’s a person who may be possessed, or if the demon is just in the vicinity, causing havoc in a house for example.

Here’s a quote from that link:

The manner in which we pray against evil, however, needs to conform to the direction we receive from the Church. When we pray against demons, we should not directly address them. Rather than saying, “We bind you, O evil spirits,” we should say instead, “Lord Jesus, bind all evil spirits.” Our prayer should always address God and His saints, not demons.

No you don’t have to ask the Vatican or a priest before you take care of a demonic infestation of your house. You just need to ask God to do it for you, rather than announcing “I command you (blah blah blah)” directly to the demon. After all, God is the one with the power to cast the demon out anyway, not you. Of course, asking a priest to bless your house in this situation is a good idea.

You can also pray for a person whom you think is demonized, just use the correct language and don’t try to address the demon directly. And definitely don’t try a solemn exorcism; those can only be performed by priests.

Plus, if the Church says to do things a certain way, we need to do that especially where it concerns demons. Demons respond to obedience and authority, and they can feed off of disobedience and rebellion. If you are doing something that is against Church rules thinking the ends justifies the means, then you could make the problem worse.

What I am saying about “diagnosing” is that unless you are trained, you should not conclude definitively that a person is possessed or oppressed. You may suspect it, but my reference was to the OP’s statement that the woman was oppressed.

Even without training a person could identify a demonic infestation of a home, but we need to be careful when claiming a person is infested since there are psychiatric and medical conditions that can appear to the untrained observer as a possession.

 

[Lief_Erikson]

Okay, I’m able to access the link now. My I-Phone had a bad connection. The house computer works fine, though.

First, I’d like to say, Becky, please don’t take any offense at my questions or responses. I am earnestly trying to fall into line with the Vatican’s teaching. I’m trying to work out some conflicts that exist between what you just told me and my past experiences.

The bottom line is, the Holy See says one should never address a demon directly, whether it’s a person who may be possessed, or if the demon is just in the vicinity, causing havoc in a house for example.

Here’s a quote from that link:
Quote:
The manner in which we pray against evil, however, needs to conform to the direction we receive from the Church. When we pray against demons, we should not directly address them. Rather than saying, “We bind you, O evil spirits,” we should say instead, “Lord Jesus, bind all evil spirits.” Our prayer should always address God and His saints, not demons.

Okay. I’ll have to talk to my priest about this.

I have had a fair amount of experience in spiritual warfare. My experience in first coming to know the Lord came as a trial through fire, in which I was oppressed by a demon for months. I have talked with a priest about that experience since, and I think he agreed with me that it was a demon. I banished that demon directly in the name of Jesus.

I’ve had two other major experiences of battling demons. One was a great success that resulted in a miracle- a young woman’s sexuality was transformed and she became heterosexual. She had been lesbian. Her life changed in extremely positive ways, afterward.

The other experience was a miserable failure. The demonic infestation of the place I was in was extremely intense, and not only myself but other people also were affected when we entered it. I prayed against the demons directly and was soundly rebuffed. I actually endured strong strangling sensations until I got out of there. I expect that this is what Cardinal Ratzinger was talking about when he warned those “who lack the required power.” The place I was entering was deeply, deeply spiritually diseased.

But the first two of these clashes I engaged in were very successful.

In all my conflict with demons, I have spoken to them directly, binding and banishing them in the Name of Jesus. Binding and banishing them in the Name of Jesus, while speaking to them directly and in Christ’s authority, has proven extremely powerful for me. Don’t say, “blah blah blah” about it . It’s extremely effective. I can see why the priests include it in the Rite of Exorcism.

I have never performed an exorcism, and since I have learned that Catholics restrict it to trained priests, I don’t think I ever will. Unless I were to become an exorcist some time in the future.

But I have fought evil spirits, and in at least one case Christ defeated through me a demon that was oppressing a person.

I’ll talk to my priest about this, I think.

You can also pray for a person whom you think is demonized, just use the correct language and don’t try to address the demon directly. And definitely don’t try a solemn exorcism; those can only be performed by priests.

Yeah, I’ve never tried that last. I’ve never had a conversation with an evil spirit either. I have certainly commanded them directly before, though, in Jesus Christ’s name and authority, and it has been effective.

I didn’t know what the Church’s position on this was, until you told me.

Plus, if the Church says to do things a certain way, we need to do that especially where it concerns demons. Demons respond to obedience and authority, and they can feed off of disobedience and rebellion. If you are doing something that is against Church rules thinking the ends justifies the means, then you could make the problem worse.

Agreed.

What I am saying about “diagnosing” is that unless you are trained, you should not conclude definitively that a person is possessed or oppressed.

Do you have a citation for this? I mean, has the Vatican definitively stated this?

Even without training a person could identify a demonic infestation of a home, but we need to be careful when claiming a person is infested since there are psychiatric and medical conditions that can appear to the untrained observer as a possession.

Yeah, that’s true. It makes sense.

Whenever I suspect that a person is influenced by a demon, I go into heavy prayer about it. And sometimes my fantasies have gotten in the way, which stinks. Because I’ve had some intense experiences with demons, I’m a bit hypersensitized, and consequently I have jumped the gun before, erring on the side of suspicion. Not to anyone’s detriment- I’m not intrusive. It has happened, though, so I take precautions.

I doubt that I’ve had more experiences with demons than most people have. The difference is that when I first came to know the Lord, he opened my senses so that I could sense them. Once I’ve seen one. But several times I’ve sensed them. I’ve also had times of sensing God’s angels. And I’ve had many other mystical experiences. I don’t think that more angels or demons hang around me- I think the Lord just gave me the gift of discernment of spirits, so I tend to be more aware than many people are.

And naturally, I respond to my heightened awareness in the best way I know, to glorify God and do his work in the world.