Close encounter with a demon?

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Sounds good, Lief.

Just wanted to clarify, when I used the phrase “blah blah blah” my intention was not to mock or minimize, I was just using that in place of whatever phrase one might insert in that situation.

I don’t have a Vatican citation for the thing about diagnosing folks, it’s just one of many tips I’ve picked up from Bro. Ignatius Mary over at the St. Pio Center for Deliverance counseling. He has over twenty years of experience in deliverance work, so when he says not to diagnose someone unless you really know what you’re doing, I just take his word for it. 🙂

Bro. Ignatius has also mentioned that there is such a thing as a non-solemn exorcism that a layperson could perform, but it isn’t prudent to do so without training due to the danger involved.

Anyone can perform an exorcism on a house, I just don’t recommend going in there talking directly to the demons. I see this all the time on those ghost chasing shows. The kids on Paranormal State do this pretty regularly.

As you know from your personal experiences, spiritual warfare is not a game and can be dangerous. It takes some amount of faith to stand up to the attacks you may sustain by becoming involved in it.
 
Hard to say.

I must deal with what you described at least a 100 times a day at work. Some people shine in that field, some people do what you do and run away crying.

I guess it would be fair to consider that the people who scream at me during my working hours are probably obsessed or possessed. Who’s to say? 😃

Sounds as if the shop girl didn’t know how to de-escalate the situation. You know how toddlers start screaming until they’ve gone into a fit that they can’t get out of, perhaps falling over with exhaustion but still unable to stop screaming? We don’t grow out of that. 😉
 
Cari said:
Read anything by Fr. Amorth. He suggests (and I don’t think he’s alone in this one) that many times what we Westerners call mental illness is actually oppression (which is different from possession) by demonic spirits. Not in all cases, of course, but more often than we might realize.
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Many people with mental illness focus on religion, God, visions etc. I don’t discount possession, but it is more likely that the person was experiencing psychosis. Being around a psychotic person naturally causes fear and panic. Whether possessed or mentally ill the person needs help. Don’t hesitate to call the mental health crisis line in your area or the police when you encounter someone like this. This may be a step toward sanity for them. I am curious, did anyone go back to the gift shop to check on the clerk?
 
When I was a little girl around nine years old, someone spoke in my mind and offered for me to choose a life of evil. It appeared very attractive, and as I was considering it, it was as if I started to speed swiftly along a tunnel, Scared, I commanded “No” in my mind, and the speeding stopped immediately.

The other time was when for a couple of weeks I had the strange feeling that something evil lurking was around behind me whenever I went to the little room where I had a prayer corner. It happened a number of times and I felt a bit scared. But then my middle son who was around ten, came to me and said, “Mummy, I feel scared, like there’s something bad in the house.” Of course I’d not mentioned anything. I knew what to do as soon as I knew my boy was scared. “It’s alright, darling. It’s just a devil. A devil is just a bad angel.” I told him that two-third of the Angels stayed good and I suggested that we ask God to let the good angels fill our house, and neither of us felt evil lurking there again.
Those were the only times I clearly felt the touch of evil.

God keep us all safe. May the Angels always surround us, Trishie
 
Cari said:
Read anything by Fr. Amorth. He suggests (and I don’t think he’s alone in this one) that many times what we Westerners call mental illness is actually oppression (which is different from possession) by demonic spirits. Not in all cases, of course, but more often than we might realize.
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Sometimes I wonder if my mental illnesses aren’t demonic oppression or even possession. But then again, if they are, I don’t know how to be delivered of demonic oppression.
 
One thing that’s notable about a lot of the demon banishings the Lord performed in the New Testament looked like natural diseases. I wouldn’t discount the possibility that they were natural diseases too . . . natural diseases caused by demons. So mental illness or physical illness could sometimes be cured by a demon being banished. I just don’t think that because something has a physical reason for existing in the way it is, it follows that it doesn’t also have a spiritual reason.

That doesn’t mean, of course, that people are justified in treating anyone sick or mentally ill as demonically oppressed. In many cases, that would just make things worse.
 
Holly3278 said:
Sometimes I wonder if my mental illnesses aren’t demonic oppression or even possession. But then again, if they are, I don’t know how to be delivered of demonic oppression.
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Dear Holly,

God bless you; a mental illness is quite a cross to bear.

Sometimes demons can piggyback on an existing mental illness; so it is be possible to get rid of the demons and still have the illness.

I know of one Catholic source for deliverance - The Saint Pio Center for Deliverance Counseling.

Before they will work with a person one-on-one, they ask that the person try the Seven Steps to Self-Deliverance first. Even if you don’t have demons, you’ll be a better Catholic when you finish those steps. There is nothing new in what they teach; their basic philosophy is that you can keep the devil out by keeping Jesus in.

You can get more information on those steps through their Help Page.

Also, Holly, if you don’t already have a devotion to St. Dymphna, the patron saint of those with mental illnesses, you may want to learn more about her. Here are a couple resources:

Prayers to St. Dymphna

National Shrine of St. Dymphna (membership offers weekly Mass for both living and deceased members, being remembered in continuous novenas offered, and a mass said upon the death of a member. )

:hug3:
 
beckycmarie said:
Sounds good, Lief.

Just wanted to clarify, when I used the phrase “blah blah blah” my intention was not to mock or minimize, I was just using that in place of whatever phrase one might insert in that situation.
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Oh, okay. 🙂 My bad.

One of my college professors uses “blah blah blah” in the same way you do- I’m just not used to it.
beckycmarie said:
I don’t have a Vatican citation for the thing about diagnosing folks, it’s just one of many tips I’ve picked up from Bro. Ignatius Mary over at the St. Pio Center for Deliverance counseling. He has over twenty years of experience in deliverance work, so when he says not to diagnose someone unless you really know what you’re doing, I just take his word for it. 🙂
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Okay :). It certainly makes sense to go with his advice- I don’t mean to jump on you.
beckycmarie said:
Bro. Ignatius has also mentioned that there is such a thing as a non-solemn exorcism that a layperson could perform, but it isn’t prudent to do so without training due to the danger involved.
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I’ll ask the priest about that too. It interests me.

My feeling is that entering the Catholic Church should enable me to use my gift of discernment of spirits to its fullest expression, in the way God wanted me to use it. So I’d like to learn what the Church has to teach people like me about this.
beckycmarie said:
Anyone can perform an exorcism on a house, I just don’t recommend going in there talking directly to the demons. I see this all the time on those ghost chasing shows. The kids on Paranormal State do this pretty regularly.
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Hmm, I’ve never watched those shows. Sounds like they’re training people to take these extremely serious things very, very lightly, though. Which won’t do anyone any good.
beckycmarie said:
As you know from your personal experiences, spiritual warfare is not a game and can be dangerous. It takes some amount of faith to stand up to the attacks you may sustain by becoming involved in it.
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Yes.
 
Lief_Erikson said:
Hmm, I’ve never watched those shows. Sounds like they’re training people to take these extremely serious things very, very lightly, though. Which won’t do anyone any good.
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Dear Lief,

The show Paranormal State on A&E is what got me interested in spiritual warfare. I watched the show and was excited to see them praying the St.Michael prayer, using Holy Water and St. Benedict medals (the main guy in charge is Catholic).

But. . .I had a hard time reconciling that with the fact that they use mediums and psychics, do something called “dead time” in which they communicate directly with the entity, and sometimes one of the pagan members of the group does pagan rituals.

One big problem with that show is that it teaches people to copy what they’re doing. Teenagers especially like to mess around with that stuff, and it can lead to big problems.

After seeing the show, I went googling to learn more and found myself on the SPCDC website, where it became very clear to me that what I was reading there was true.

I put myself through the seven steps to self-deliverance, and I think I recommend those steps to someone on CAF at least once per day. I can’t say enough about how doing those steps changed my life. Did I have demons? Who knows. I didn’t have stuff flying around my house, and I didn’t have any sort of aversion to holy objects, but since doing the steps, I’ve become a much better Catholic.

As Fr. Amorth says, the confessional steals more souls from Satan than exorcism takes bodies back from Satan.

It is amazing the way God works in our lives to bring about a closer relationship with Him. I would never have guessed that He’d get my attention through my curiosity in a ghost hunting show such as Paranormal State.
 
I’m sure it’s possible that their was a pressence in the shop.
Was the girl that worked in the shop ok?
 
For anyone who asked about the girl in the gift shop who had gotten verbally attacked by the woman, I did not go back to check on her. But I think, if I remember correctly, another young lady who worked in the shop had stepped behind the counter and was standing beside the girl. She seemed just as confused about the woman’s ranting as I and the girl being verbally assaulted, and the other lady was trying to comfort and protect the girl.

I also feel sensitive in the same way when seeing something online that is not of God and what His Church teaches, such as content on a Web site or a blog. This is true particularly when it portrays and suggests disobedience to the Church (consider any number of schismatics or sedevacantists who have such sites), or there is material that is inconsistent with what the Church teaches now. It’s as if Satan is attempting to make an attack on me by clouding my mind with confusion, at the very least; if the attack is a strong one, I have to bring my eyes away from the screen and pray for protection before I click the “X” to close the window it’s in or move on to another site on the Web.
 
DonaNobis,

What you described sounds like the gift of discernment: the ability to perceive the spirit of truth from the spirit of error.
 
Wow… what you described is really scary. Certainly sounds like something wasn’t right. I’m so sorry for everyone involved.

I don’t know what I would have done in this situation. Probably, just as you did… get the heck out of that gift shop. But, I got this idea from Fr. John Corapi; I’ve been trying to “train” myself, spiritually… for when I feel tempted or weak or in an evil presence… to say:

“Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit… as it was in the beginning, is now and ever shall be… world without end. Amen.”

Fr. Corapi uses the “Hail Mary” as his prayer weapon, but suggested any short prayer… when we feel evil around us. It would be good to remember, I guess… in a situation such as you described. It makes sense that satan would flee… from a soul, a few feet away… giving Glory and Praise to the Most High… or asking Our Lady for her protection and assistance.
 
MarieVeronica said:
Fr. Corapi uses the “Hail Mary” as his prayer weapon, but suggested any short prayer… when we feel evil around us. It would be good to remember, I guess… in a situation such as you described. It makes sense that satan would flee… from a soul, a few feet away… giving Glory and Praise to the Most High… or asking Our Lady for her protection and assistance.
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That is an excellent suggestion. 👍

If one doesn’t have spiritual warfare prayers memorized and needs one at a moment’s notice, the Hail Mary is one of the best.

The reason for this is that demons are terrified of Mary because she is the opposite of Lucifer. Mary’s entire life was one giant “thy will be done” while the theme of Satan and his followers is “I WILL NOT SERVE!”

Few things make them flee like the Blessed Virgin’s intercession. I’ve heard of cases of possession when the demons were getting particularly obnoxious, and with one prayer to Mary, the demons, responding to Mary would say “Yes, Your Majesty” in obedience to her directive that they obey the priest.
 
As others have said, it is important not to assume in the first instance that this woman was under the influence of a demon. When an exorcist is assigned to a suspected case of demonic possession he is supposed to initially approach it from the point of view that there may be a more rational explanation such as mental illness. Although I believe very strongly in demonic possession or the influence of demons, I believe that we too must firstly look at such things from a ‘normal’ perspective before we rule in the paranormal. In any case, given that you could not have been certain that there was a demonic presence, and also that you were gripped by fear, the most effective tool is prayer as it has the power to work if the lady was indeed under an evil influence, or suffering a mental illness or simply having an off-day.

However, that said, I do believe that demons are indeed roaming the earth. I was at a talk given by an exorcist a few years ago and he told how he was in the hospital to carry out an exorcism and as he walked down the ward to where the possessed was, people in other beds started calling him over to them and asking for help from the priest. This seems a fairly normal thing to happen - for patients to want to meet the priest - but the exorcist actually saw this as demons trying to distract him from the task in hand - the exorcism. He just walked past the patients who were calling him because to have stopped would have given the demon extra time with the possessed. A strange story, but actually quite logical, and it shows that we simply cannot know in what ways demons are at work around us. Again that’s why prayer is the best, and maybe often, the only weapon!
 
Leif,
If you are truly interested in using your gifts to their best ability in the Church, then I suggest you follow the directives in the Current Norms Governing Exorcism, the document you were already previously referred to.

There are two types of prayers: imprecatory, and deprecatory. Deprecatory prayers call on God to bind and cast out the evil one, and all the faithful may use those prayers at any time.

Imprecatory prayers use the first person (“In the name of Jesus Christ, I cast you out…”). Only ordained clergy have the authority to use such language. Upon ordination, clergy are ontologically changed, and receive divine authority to represent Christ on earth. This is why priests in the confessional say, “By the authority granted me I absolve you…” The priest stands in persona Christi. Therefore, the priest has the authority to bind and cast out demons in Jesus’ name–laymen do not.

For a good discussion explaining why this is so, see this site:

saint-mike.org/apologetics/qa/answers/spiritual_warfare/s0403220053.html

Rejecting this directive with the response, “I’m experienced in spiritual warfare, and these imprecatory prayers have worked for me in the past” is not a sign of humble obedience, but rather of spiritual pride. The devil will do anything to foster pride and disobedience, including leaving when told to by a layperson without authority. One shouldn’t necessarily take past success using such prayers as a sign of God’s approval.
God bless,
Christine
 
Dear Credo,

I read the document Becky referred me to two years ago when this conversation took place. I submitted fully to the Church’s teachings on these matters.

Thanks for the concern and advice :).

My description of those encounters on the previous page was not complete either. I didn’t intentionally say anything false; it’s just that there was part of the story I didn’t mention because I didn’t think of it. I hadn’t gone back and reanalyzed these events in my life from a Catholic worldview at the time I last posted here, so I didn’t consider the clear relevance of the details I left out.

During the first encounter I had with an evil spirit, when I banished it in Jesus’ Name, I prayed for quite some time beforehand, declaring my identity as a child of God and covering myself in the shed blood of Jesus, and declaring that I was free from all evil powers and stood in the protection of the Cross. This may have had a role in the spirit’s withdrawal from the house, rather than only the direct command I gave, “I banish you in Jesus’ Name.”

Also, the spirit’s “withdrawal” was not complete when I banished it by direct command. It withdrew, but the following night, and the night after, it was back. It skulked around the house without entering, but I could feel it very powerfully outside and I was deeply frightened those nights.

I finally prayed a couple nights after the first encounter that the Lord would send His angels to fill the house and protect me and my family from all evil spirits. It was after THAT prayer that I sensed God’s angels in the house, along with an incredible sense of peace, and all personal encounters with that particular demon ended.

So there was possibly an impact when I said, “I banish you in Jesus’ Name,” but it didn’t have a very long-term affect, and the spirit’s partial withdrawal at that time may have been more because of the faith and defiance I was showing in Jesus, and because of my earlier prayers about my protection in the Cross. The long-term good came after I prayed that God send His angels into the house and after I asked Him to protect me through them from any further encounter with the spirits.

Thus that first encounter with a demon did match with Catholic teaching on the matter, though I didn’t notice that in 2008, when I last posted here, because I was still used to thinking about these things from a Protestant worldview and in Protestantism, saying, “I banish you in Jesus’ Name,” is quite acceptable. So I was used to thinking that Christ’s power flowing through these words when I spoke them was what made the difference, even though if you look at the events over again while including all the details I left out, and with the Church’s teaching kept in mind, one can see what it actually was that made the difference.

I wasn’t used to thinking about things from the Catholic perspective when I last posted here, because at the time I last wrote here, I was a Protestant. I was almost all the way converted, for I converted that Easter. But I was still working my way into a fully Catholic worldview and I wasn’t used to rethinking events from my past from a Catholic perspective.

The day I directly banished the demon that was causing lesbianism in one of my friends, I also prayed for God’s angels to surround and protect her, so there too, one can see Catholicism coming through and her freedom can be explained according to Catholic teaching without difficulty.

It’s just that in 2008 I had not carefully gone over those events again from a Catholic worldview. I was used to thinking, as Protestantism says is acceptable, that my direct command had the affect. I wasn’t used to thinking that my request to God to send His angels was what had the real and long-term impact, and that the part of my prayer I earlier had considered most powerful was in fact a mistake.

I think I’m better now as far as this is concerned :).

Lief
 
beckycmarie said:
Hi Credo, saint-mike.org has recently revised the imprecatory vs. deprecatory instructions. Please see this link for more details:

saint-mike.org/qa/sw/viewanswer.asp?QID=1143
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That’s interesting to me and I would like to believe it, but I would also like to see more evidence.

My curiosity isn’t due to anything in particular going on and this isn’t at all urgent. After all, if anything happens I know I can pray to God or His angels or saints for help, and this help is effective and usually the recommended way to go.

I just get very interested in knowing the correct Catholic teachings on all kinds of issues :).
 
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