P
piouswoman
Guest
There is some truth in this statement…liberal modernism and its revolutionary ideas began seeping into the church long before Vatican II. Protestant ideas, really.
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piouswoman
Guest
WRONG. The Mass is the sacrifice of the New Law in which Christ through the ministry of the priest, offers Himself to God in an unbloody manner under the appearances of bread and wine.
Our Lord** instituted the Mass** at the Last Supper.
Get your facts straight.
Thank you.
L
laudamus_te
Guest
No, it was not my point to show that the word “meal” doesn’t appear. Compare and contrast the exerpts from the two catechisms. Do you see the word “sacrifice” anywhere in the new catechism? And no, the Mass is not in any way supposed to be a “family meal.” Let me remind you again:
Nothing about sharing a family meal. It is a SACRIFICE. It’s not about a “meal.” Only Protestants believe they are commemorating a “meal.”
C
catharina
Guest
Both catechisms (Baltimore and CCC) repeatedly describe
the Holy Eucharist as both Sacrament and sacrifice.
The Holy Eucharist is celebrated in the context of the Holy Mass as a true and real memorial of the last Supper of Our Lord.
the Holy Eucharist as both Sacrament and sacrifice.
The Holy Eucharist is celebrated in the context of the Holy Mass as a true and real memorial of the last Supper of Our Lord.
C
catharina
Guest
Again - there are times, perhaps many times, when one is not going to be dressed in their very best if they attend Mass while caring for the sick and poor on a day of work. It’s that simple.
Does God care about such an unavoidable situation? I doubt it. It’s sad that some people seem to care so much about it when, in fact, it’s not really any of their business.
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foolishmortal
Guest
Wow! There’s a movie called “While you were Sleeping”. While I was sleeping, the thread got a big catch.
Well, the “meal” has become a “Happy Meal” in many, if not most, parishes, complete with toys (for the kids). Still, to non-Catholics and schismatics, the Mass is what it is, if done properly, and so is the Catechism and are the sacraments–the ones instituted by those Christ, himself, put in charge or ones the successors rightfully chosen by them and so on. If it were man-made, we would have allowed contraception and “divorce” and “remarriage” by now. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, but the Bible or Church never said it couldn’t against its members.
I think some people with money are hiding behind the poor and those with other ok excuses for not wearing something beyond what’s appropriate for a backyard barbeque. My family is in that tax bracket. I know. Like I said, I don’t dress as I ought when I have the time to do so, but my point is philosophical and touching, maybe, on the theological. I think people pull out the Biblical, Canonical, Catechetical, and even non-dogmatic-from-the-saints quotable tracts they like and are strangely quiet about the others. I think Faith and Charity are put into combat on many of these issues, while they should be equally raised to new heights and supportive of each other–same with interiors and exteriors based on your personal or group’s means (clothes and Church art and liturgy, respectively).
Regarding the New (interesting adjective) Code of Canon Law, not acknowledging it as such is schismatic; not liking it or liking it is is of no concern to one’s own soul. God does not require we like that only those in the Church, having received the Sacrament of Babtism or adult initiation and having the state of grace can receive Holy Communion. Some saints didn’t like the idea of some dogmas, but were obedient when they were made as such. I don’t believe the CCC necessarily makes ALL the info. of ones before it irrelevant though, as it is wishy-washy in non-dogmatic, though likely traditionally-true, controversial issues, but not contradicting, some things said in earlier catechisms.
Well, the “meal” has become a “Happy Meal” in many, if not most, parishes, complete with toys (for the kids). Still, to non-Catholics and schismatics, the Mass is what it is, if done properly, and so is the Catechism and are the sacraments–the ones instituted by those Christ, himself, put in charge or ones the successors rightfully chosen by them and so on. If it were man-made, we would have allowed contraception and “divorce” and “remarriage” by now. The gates of hell will not prevail against the Church, but the Bible or Church never said it couldn’t against its members.
I think some people with money are hiding behind the poor and those with other ok excuses for not wearing something beyond what’s appropriate for a backyard barbeque. My family is in that tax bracket. I know. Like I said, I don’t dress as I ought when I have the time to do so, but my point is philosophical and touching, maybe, on the theological. I think people pull out the Biblical, Canonical, Catechetical, and even non-dogmatic-from-the-saints quotable tracts they like and are strangely quiet about the others. I think Faith and Charity are put into combat on many of these issues, while they should be equally raised to new heights and supportive of each other–same with interiors and exteriors based on your personal or group’s means (clothes and Church art and liturgy, respectively).
Regarding the New (interesting adjective) Code of Canon Law, not acknowledging it as such is schismatic; not liking it or liking it is is of no concern to one’s own soul. God does not require we like that only those in the Church, having received the Sacrament of Babtism or adult initiation and having the state of grace can receive Holy Communion. Some saints didn’t like the idea of some dogmas, but were obedient when they were made as such. I don’t believe the CCC necessarily makes ALL the info. of ones before it irrelevant though, as it is wishy-washy in non-dogmatic, though likely traditionally-true, controversial issues, but not contradicting, some things said in earlier catechisms.
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LilyM
Guest
Certainly it did not - but then neither did the Church get cryogenically frozen, along with the Baltimore Catechism and the 1917 Code of Canon Law, just prior to Vatican II either, as some of you seem to think it did.
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foolishmortal
Guest
I just want to add that not everything a pope says is golden or you would have to be in favor of every word that came from every pope–including the handful who had mistresses. Some would seem almost like popalaters (popolaters?), as some traditionalists call those who dogmatized everything that came from the last pope’s mouth as if they were more than worth hearing. The gates of hell can prevail against a pope, but the Church is infallible. I understand Pope Sixtus V, I think a good pope overall, died while about to write something he would declare infallibly that was heresy (probably nothing he was aware of as being heresy; but nothing heretical may become dogma–even seemingly little things). That is not to say the gates of hell prevailed against him, but that he is not protected infallibly; the Church is.
C
catharina
Guest
The Church stands, as Our Lord promised. As it stands, I stand with it. If Our Lord sees need for change within the Church, change comes. I have to wonder at anyone who believes he or she can direct others what to wear to Church - since that type of direction belongs to the Church proper, not to the man or women in the pew. Until I came to this website I had no first-hand knowledge that there are Catholics who would impose their will on others in terms of clothing choices and such. I’d heard that they existed but I’d never experienced it.
Just as I have no authority to tell any woman that she can NOT cover head while attending Mass or while visiting in Church, neither does any member of the laity have authority to tell me that I must cover my head in those circumstances. An essential truth of the teaching from my childhood, that we are to be faithful to the Church, is essential to me still. If others wish to judge me in that regard, then that is their problem.
PS -
If the Church chooses to activate that custom again (mandatory headcoverings for women) , then I’m sure I’ll comply with it.
S
Sword_Brethren
Guest
Wearing your best clothes for Sunday Mass is not Sword Brethren’s teaching. I was taught that by a priest and I have heard other priests teach that and even a bishop.
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ac_claire
Guest
No, the Catholic Church also calls the Eucharist the Lord’s Supper. The view you are expressing here isn’t what the Church teaches.
From the CCC 1328-1332 (first emphasis is mine; the rest are in the text.)
A
Alphonsus_John
Guest
Since suits, ties, and dress shoes are all the work of the devil, I prefer not to have them on in God’s house. 
I’ll wear them from time-to-time because my job pays me to wear them and because my fiancee thinks I look good in them and I love to make her happy. Other than that, I detest dressing up.
I’ll wear them from time-to-time because my job pays me to wear them and because my fiancee thinks I look good in them and I love to make her happy. Other than that, I detest dressing up.
V
vflibunao
Guest
In this modern generation of Christians, i observed that many of our brethren are not aware in what Jesus teached us to be HOLY.
Holiness will be our mirror to put ourselves of how to wear a dress in modesty way. Let us be a good example to others.
Holiness will be our mirror to put ourselves of how to wear a dress in modesty way. Let us be a good example to others.
V
vflibunao
Guest
And also the Holy Scriptures says, that the woman must wear a veil during the Mass, but nowadays you will see only few of them wearing of it. Why?:crying:
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laudamus_te
Guest
Just curious, can you point me to a case where someone here has attempted to “impose their will” on you? Or told you that you MUST cover your head? Or are you overreacting to opinions which don’t agree with your own?
But surely you do not wear shorts and flip-flops, or jogging clothes to Mass? I don’t think the issue is whether one should wear formal clothes or even their “best” clothes necessarily (although it is nice to do so), but whether one should take more time in dressing themselves in a mode which shows respect for God than they would for lounging around the house or going out for a jog. Unfortunately, shorts, flip-flops, sweatpants, spaghetti-strap tops (even strapless tube tops) are the norm at Mass today. These things surely are the work of the devil, and that’s no joke.
D
drafdog
Guest
How much or how little we wear is largely a matter of social custom. There are societies in which people wear almost nothing and it is not considered immoral or lewd or immodest. It’s just the custom of the time and the society.
People in my neck of the woods wear tees and shorts frequently, especially during the summer. People in my last parish sported overcoats and warm boots during the winter. Go with the flow and don’t get your (directoire) nickers in a knot.
Matthew
People in my neck of the woods wear tees and shorts frequently, especially during the summer. People in my last parish sported overcoats and warm boots during the winter. Go with the flow and don’t get your (directoire) nickers in a knot.
Matthew
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
Where have you been going to mass that people dress like that?
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laudamus_te
Guest
The parish that I grew up in, and finally left. It is the norm, I assure you.
M
Margarite
Guest
Where have you been going that people don’t dress like that?
I mean shorts, flip-flops, tank tops, etc. are the norm. The less dressy people wear PJ’s and the more dressy people wear a sweater. I think my family is the most conservative as far as clothing. The girls in my family always wear a shirt with some sort of sleeve, and a skirt, while the men always wear pants and some sort of collared shirt.
Summer in Vegas can get temperatures of 120 degrees, so people feel justified wearing basically their underwear to church. Even in the winter when the temperatures go down to 45 on the coldest days, people wear flip-flops.
It is saddest when I see people in flannel PJ pants and a tank top or a T-shirt with crude wording. That is sooooooooo sad.
A
Alphonsus_John
Guest
I was just teasing (notice the wink). I personally hate wearing a suit and tie; hence the joke, but I agree w/ you that dress at Mass (though not my parish) can be unbelievably casual (and IMO, well past the point of disrespectful). My parish tends to go the other way w/ lots of people in their “Suday best” (suits, dresses, etc.); but enough people also in jeans and sneakers. I can’t remember ever seeing folks in what appears to be pajamas except maybe kids who go to daily Mass.
My parish is also pretty darn “orthodox” w/ daily confession, eucharistic adoration every week, and one ad orientem mass w/ polyphony and chant on Sundays.
The best way to solve the ridiculous degree of casualness, IMO, is for the priest to speak up about it from the pulpit and put it in the bulletin. Enough churches tell the congregation “turn off your cell phone” so “don’t wear pajamas to church” shouldn’t be too hard.
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