Clothes at Mass

[foolishmortal]

I do admit I can be very melancholic. People who go the indult TLM Masses seem like very happy people. I am a relative new TLM goer. I have read much and find much wanting in how the Church is run. Shepherds are to protect their sheep from the wolves maybe in addition to protecting them as well from them. We were not protected. Managing the Church is not an infallible action of the office of Pope. The Church opened its nets too wide and barnacle floated in. It’s time, I believe, to halt the trips for a while and clean house. I heard the USCCB oked the Golden Compass. That is what I’m talking about.

We do get the clergy we deserve.  Maybe the Boomer's parents' generation deserved the ones that ran parishes and dioceses after Vatican 2, but the Boomers may not have and our generation definitely did not deserve the goofiness we could not respect.

On this topic, my melancholic side rants. It is good to hear all sides as I see mostly the negative things. It’s not fair, though, only EWTN pilgrims get the correctly-done N.O. Mass while we get sentimental fuzz. It’s not fair only I got the grace to care what the Church teaches formally and what was put aside by rebels after Vatican 2. That’s not to say we don’t get Jesus, but do we really understand that truth enough?

If the upper clergy and EWTN love Vatican 2 and the N.O. so much, it’s time to show it by enforcing it that way on the Roman rite parishes and their dioceses including educational food for souls that should be the homily if the church building and music also do not help teach the Faith. If the clergy can’t do it or won’t, its time to find those who can and will. Promote good parish priests to bishops and send the weak or rebel ones to backwater towns. It would be better for those clergy’s souls.

 

[joeybaggz]

Foolishmortal
“…while all we get is sentimental fuzz.”
Hey "Sentimental fuzz’ was a really cool rock band out of San Francisco in the late 60’s. I didn’t know they’d become a Christian Rock Group, and if they are playing at your church, let me know where it is.

Oh, and in one of your posts you used the term “ritual reenactment” when describing the Eucharist. One of the criticisms of Protestants, especially fundamental or pentecostal ones, is their definition of “Catholic Guilt” being that, to Catholics, " the cross was not enough," and since Christ died once and for all for the forgiveness of sins, why do we Catholics have to kill him over and over again at each mass. You might want to re-think that term???
Best term I’ve heard for it is that in the Mass we re-present the sacrifice of Calvary. Just a thought.

Shalom

 

[joeybaggz]

Oh and back to the original point of this thread:

Am I the only one who finds it strange that most people would put on their finest suit or dress to attend a dinner with the President of the United States, the Queen of England, or some other such dignitary, but to go and be in the presence of one’s Creator, Savior, and Final Judge, and share in the meal that He created, we just put on the least thing we figure we can get by with? Would that thinking be consistent with the attitude of most people in the world today who, in whatever they do, just put in the minimum effort? Imagine if Jesus just put in the minimum. The great sign of God’s love for us have been a “time out” and no wine with dinner.

How about a campaign to make one Mass on one Sunday a month, set aside for “Sunday goin’ to meetin” clothes. Like Aretha says, “a little respect”

 

[foolishmortal]

Joeybaggz, thanks for the correction of the term.
I apologize to the moderators for going off-topic. I admit to a lot of anger and I need to put it to rest, forgive and pray for those who drive me up the wall as I am no champion of the Faith and not much of an example of Christian charity.

As much as I love the habits of the religious brothers, for the active (like working directly with the disadvantaged) ones, I was wondering if a community should not be started that wears modern clothes of the poor (Salvation army second-hand store), though all would have a uniformity in the look (like old slacks, old shoes, old, wrn jacket, etc.) and maybe a kind of relaxed hairdo, though not long or wild (just not like they could change clothes and go to a dinner party). St. Francis did dress like the poor. There would need to be a place for their scapular and their rope belt. Women orders would do the same, wearing modest, but worn outfits, and some kind of Aunt Jemima-like head scarf.

I think that look, with a dignified purpose (not just because of laziness reasoned away by the what’s on the inside baloney), would be better clothes than jeans, sandals and/or a polo shirt for guys and some sleeveless blouse and tight pants or jeans for women (at least young women).

 

[foolishmortal]

Of course, the last paragraph refers to clothes at Mass; not the mall or a barbeque party in the 'burbs.

 

[foolishmortal]

Ok. That sounds like reading others’ souls and minds, but these are days like that (and then, there is that “what’s on the inside that counts” overfocusing which, I just believe, is a self-delusion) and laziness is why I don’t dress formally–and I am all for dressing formally (but not extravagantly) for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

 

[brigid12]

Oh and back to the original point of this thread:

Am I the only one who finds it strange that most people would put on their finest suit or dress to attend a dinner with the President of the United States, the Queen of England, or some other such dignitary, but to go and be in the presence of one’s Creator, Savior, and Final Judge, and share in the meal that He created, we just put on the least thing we figure we can get by with? Would that thinking be consistent with the attitude of most people in the world today who, in whatever they do, just put in the minimum effort? Imagine if Jesus just put in the minimum. The great sign of God’s love for us have been a “time out” and no wine with dinner.

How about a campaign to make one Mass on one Sunday a month, set aside for “Sunday goin’ to meetin” clothes. Like Aretha says, “a little respect”

No, you’re not the only one who sees that as strange!!! Trouble is, since so many people wear casual dress at Mass, one needs to either “dress to blend in” or dress as is appropriate and be branded as ‘uptight’, ‘freakish’ or ‘holier than thou’.

 

[piouswoman]

Oh and back to the original point of this thread:

Am I the only one who finds it strange that most people would put on their finest suit or dress to attend a dinner with the President of the United States, the Queen of England, or some other such dignitary, but to go and be in the presence of one’s Creator, Savior, and Final Judge, and share in the meal that He created, we just put on the least thing we figure we can get by with? Would that thinking be consistent with the attitude of most people in the world today who, in whatever they do, just put in the minimum effort? Imagine if Jesus just put in the minimum. The great sign of God’s love for us have been a “time out” and no wine with dinner.

How about a campaign to make one Mass on one Sunday a month, set aside for “Sunday goin’ to meetin” clothes. Like Aretha says, “a little respect”

Why just one Sunday a month, though? Why not strive for every Sunday? Going to Holy Mass is not like some job where you have ‘dress down’ days. One is always in the presence of Our Lord and that alone should be enough to impel one to dress properly and in the very best clothes that one owns, no if’s and’s or but’s about it. I for one am so tired of the lazy, casual, sloppy way of dressing in this society today and I really believe it proves that there has been a real ‘dumbing down’ of the people.

 

[Califman831]

no take your best clothes and give it to one that has less than you.

 

[piouswoman]

no take your best clothes and give it to one that has less than you.

That sounds like an excuse to look sloppy. There are other ways of helping the poor besides giving away your best clothes to get out of dressing well for Holy Mass.
So, rather, why don’t you put God above all else, wear the best clothes that you have to Holy Mass, and give away the extra clothing that you don’t need…those useless and unworn items may become the receivers best clothes and then someone else will have something decent to wear to Holy Mass.
Problem solved.

 

[Califman831]

That sounds like an excuse to look sloppy. There are other ways of helping the poor besides giving away your best clothes to get out of dressing well for Holy Mass.
So, rather, why don’t you put God above all else, wear the best clothes that you have to Holy Mass, and give away the extra clothing that you don’t need…those useless and unworn items may become the receivers best clothes and then someone else will have something decent to wear to Holy Mass.
Problem solved.

From the Book of Luke​

12 "There was a rich man 13 who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day.

20
And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
21
who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores.
22
When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried,
23
and from the netherworld, 14 where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
24
And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’
25
Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.

 

[piouswoman]

From the Book of Luke​

12 "There was a rich man 13 who dressed in purple garments and fine linen and dined sumptuously each day.

20
And lying at his door was a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores,
21
who would gladly have eaten his fill of the scraps that fell from the rich man’s table. Dogs even used to come and lick his sores.
22
When the poor man died, he was carried away by angels to the bosom of Abraham. The rich man also died and was buried,
23
and from the netherworld, 14 where he was in torment, he raised his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side.
24
And he cried out, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me. Send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am suffering torment in these flames.’
25
Abraham replied, 'My child, remember that you received what was good during your lifetime while Lazarus likewise received what was bad; but now he is comforted here, whereas you are tormented.

Nowhere in my post did I say that one should be extravagant or overdressed, putting all thought into worldliness and vanity. I implied that it is proper and right to dress in the best that one possesses when in the presence of Our Lord at Holy Mass. It is easy to quote passages from Scripture to make a sanctimonious point, but out of charity and love of neighbor it would be prudent to refrain from that tactic. I have seen it done countless times by those who wish to discourage proper etiquette. Here is an informative article:
traditioninaction.org/Cultural/C016cpVanityOrVirtue_Plinio.htm

 

[fcpilot]

Anyone get tired of all the DRAMA?
I don’t think it would be difficult for anyone to wear what they would consider respectful to mass.
The key is what you consider respectful. No one has suggested formal. (maybe they have, I got tired of all of the ‘let’s get naked and give our clothes away’ dribble, and didn’t read all of the posts.)
God made us all big boys and girls with a sense of what is right and wrong. Look on the mirror and let your conscience dictate. Are you dressing to be seen? Will the boys think you’re “all that and a bag of chips?” Guys, expecting the girls to throw themselves at you as you walk out of mass 'cause you’re quite the hunk? Are you or are you not dressing to go worship our Lord. You and only you can decide. Grow up!

 

[Califman831]

Which shows greater love for your neighbour to give him /her your rags or the best that you have to offer? I agree out of basic decency one should appear as clean as possible, but a clean spirit triumphs greatly over clean clothing. God is spiritual and sees clearly into our souls, so it matters less what we choose to wear than how we lived our lives in his service. If a person appears sloppy out of laziness God will know, yet if he appears sloppy out of the toils of work and the constraints of time, then equally this is known.

 

[Sword_Brethren]

Sunday worship is the most important day of the week! It is our duty to God to wear our Sunday best. Jeans and shorts at Sunday Mass is appalling. If one was going to visit a king, would he wear jeans or shorts? When my dad was a boy, he lived in Central America and his house had a dirt floor but for Sunday Mass he wore his Sunday best.

 

[fcpilot]

… If a person appears sloppy out of laziness God will know, yet if he appears sloppy out of the toils of work and the constraints of time, then equally this is known.

Yes, we all would agree that God loves us.
However, respect for God is also respect for his creation, as His universe does not revolve around you, an individual.
Please! Respect His creation also that has to sit near you.

If we work construction and go to mass on our lunch, run a comb trough the hair and tuck in the shirt. We all love and respect honest toil. Give us some credit.

We could “what if” ourselves silly.

 

[fcpilot]

Amen, S.B.

How many of us have created God in “our” image?

I choose to believe that we were created with respect for God and others.

I can’t accept biblical snippets taken out of context as a reason for disrespect for both God and self. “Grunge” is out at mass.
Take it to the club or sports stadium.

The Lord knows what’s in our closets as well as our heart and soul.

 

[laudamus_te]

Trouble is, since so many people wear casual dress at Mass, one needs to either “dress to blend in” or dress as is appropriate and be branded as ‘uptight’, ‘freakish’ or ‘holier than thou’.

Of course, it’s best to please God rather than our fellow men. Something that so many find difficult to do, particularly in this day and age.

 

[Yerusalyim]

One should dress modestly for mass. I used to ALWAYS wear a suit…now I’m usually slacks and a shirt…and even occasionally jeans. I can see times when even more casual clothing would be appropriate…but modesty is a must.

Relating a bad experience I had…I went to a Saturday evening mass…the young lady standing in front of me was wearing a nice dress…but as the sun hit the window and then her dress, it became apparent she wore nothing but the dress. I don’t think she realized the sun was revealing her…I had to get up and move to another seat.

 

[LilyM]

Sunday worship is the most important day of the week! It is our duty to God to wear our Sunday best. Jeans and shorts at Sunday Mass is appalling. If one was going to visit a king, would he wear jeans or shorts? When my dad was a boy, he lived in Central America and his house had a dirt floor but for Sunday Mass he wore his Sunday best.

We dress up for other mortal persons because they, being mortal, have a tendency to judge us based on a) first impressions and b) the way we dress.

Jesus and God the Father, being God, have no such weaknesses of perception that need to be a consideration - they see and read our hearts and souls. We look the same to them dressed in our pyjamas in the morning or dolled up in a ball gown. I don’t wear pyjamas to Mass purely out of deference to the other people who would be scandalised if I did. And I’m sure, if my soul is at rights, I will look as beautiful as the lilies of the field that Jesus spoke of. And didn’t he tell us specifically NOT to worry about what to wear?

Giving of our money to beautify a church is one thing - that Church is a dedicated house of God, and ideally no-one should even know that we contributed a cent so the glory is purely His. But if we wear nice clothes, in all honesty it is for ourselves and something we alone benefit from, not God.