Clothes at Mass

[DJgang]

I’m just thanking God it’s 30 degrees outside and everyone is covering up at Mass…but come Summer…

I don’t care what type of clothes you wear…I just wish some women and young girls would realize that some of us just do not want to see it all rolling out or hanging out, and we really don’t care just how skinny your thighs are…

 

[KathleenElsie]

I’m just thanking God it’s 30 degrees outside and everyone is covering up at Mass…but come Summer…

I don’t care what type of clothes you wear…I just wish some women and young girls would realize that some of us just do not want to see it all rolling out or hanging out, and we really don’t care just how skinny your thighs are…

 

[jfallaw]

I dress in my best because going to Mass is the most important Sacrificial Banquet I can go to. I don’t dress fancy, (I don’t have or want fancy clothes. ) I buy most of my clothing at St. Vincent de Paul and just about anyone can afford the clothes I wear. When I shop at St. Vincent I look for clothes to wear to Mass.

I dress as if I am going to something important and in line with the “dignity of the liturgy” as the Bishops say here:

They don’t have one here, but in Austin I always shopped at the SVdP. I found an entire Christian Dior suit once-- $5! Fit great, too.

 

[foolishmortal]

I think the Bible has women with veils because the hair was attractive them (now, anyway, it’s breasts, thighs, shoulders and behinds) and because it says women wear veils because man is the glory of women and men are the glory of God. Still, humility s good for anyone. Women are at their best for God when humble, because then, they do better for God usually than men then. Women used to have power over men (and thus politics–think Herod Antipas caved into Salome’s wish for John the Babtist’s death, a wish that came from her mom)in the atriarchal days (though they could be beaten) and, with women’s liberation, they really have no more power than men.
The fact that some can be irreverent in nice clothes is the lame argument that cries “hypocrisy”. Jesus was just about interior reform, not about an overhaul of the temple to look like a circus tent and for most people to dress like they were going to a fun park–imagining they had them then (I don’t know what people dressed down for then) --just so they don’t scandalize others by possibly being hypocrites. We need to elevate the interiors and exteriors. Oftentimes, the exteriors, if first fruits of a civilization, elevate the interiors because they teach too.

 

[ancilla_Domini]

GOD HIMSELF is coming to us at Mass… How many people search for God their whole lives and never find Him? We as Catholics as very blessed to be able to see Him everyday! And if you were going to meet someone important, like a new boss or something, you’d dress to impress.

So perhaps people WOULD take the time and effort to dress up for Mass if: 1) They were informed of the solemnity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and its enactment of Jesus’ life and death, and 2) If pastors would take the time to let their faithful know that the sacredness of the Holy Sacrifice is precisely why they should put more effort into dressing for it.

A lot of parishes where lack of modesty or appropriate dress is common don’t really do anything about it. The pastors at St. Peter Chanel in Hawaiian Gardens, CA (a suburb of Los Angeles) and St. Mary of the Angels in Chicago and St. John Cantius (both in Chicago, IL) all have signs at the entrance of the church that indicate what is proper attire for Mass.

 

[markomalley]

And if you were going to meet someone important, like a new boss or something, you’d dress to impress.

1 Tim 2:8-10 “I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion.”
*
What? Do you approach God to pray, with broidered hair and ornaments of gold? Are you come to a dance? to a marriage? to a gay procession? There such a broidery, such costly garments, had been seasonable, here not one of them is wanted. You are come to pray, to supplicate for pardon of your sins, to plead for thine offenses, beseeching the Lord, and hoping to render Him propitious to you. Why do you adorn yourself? This is not the dress of a suppliant. How can you groan? How can you weep? How pray with fervency, when thus attired? Shouldest thou weep, your tears will be the ridicule of the beholders. She that weeps ought not to be wearing gold. It were but acting, and hypocrisy. For is it not acting to pour forth tears from a soul so overgrown with extravagance and ambition? Away with such hypocrisy! God is not mocked! This is the attire of actors and dancers, that live upon the stage. Nothing of this sort becomes a modest woman, who should be adorned “with shamefacedness and sobriety.”*

- St. John Chrysostom, Homily VIII on 1 Timothy​

A couple of other passages to consider in regards to clothes for church.

 

[jfallaw]

pretty much unrelated, but the evangelical church I came from placed great emphasis on NOT dressing up for church. The reasoning being that God doesn’t care what we look like. It was pathetic- people would show up to church in football jerseys and ripped jeans. Teenage girls would wear skirts so short they should be illegal in public period. I think that line of thinking, that God doesn’t care how we dress when we go to worship him, leads to laxity in so many other areas. Most of those same people seem to also think that God doesn’t care if we act like Christians or not, either.

 

[Fitswimmer]

GOD HIMSELF is coming to us at Mass… How many people search for God their whole lives and never find Him? We as Catholics as very blessed to be able to see Him everyday! And if you were going to meet someone important, like a new boss or something, you’d dress to impress.

So perhaps people WOULD take the time and effort to dress up for Mass if: 1) They were informed of the solemnity of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and its enactment of Jesus’ life and death, and 2) If pastors would take the time to let their faithful know that the sacredness of the Holy Sacrifice is precisely why they should put more effort into dressing for it.

A lot of parishes where lack of modesty or appropriate dress is common don’t really do anything about it. The pastors at St. Peter Chanel in Hawaiian Gardens, CA (a suburb of Los Angeles) and St. Mary of the Angels in Chicago and St. John Cantius (both in Chicago, IL) all have signs at the entrance of the church that indicate what is proper attire for Mass.

God Himself has told us that He is with us at all times. We don’t leave God behind when we leave Mass. He’s not only in the tabernacle. I think part of the discussion regarding casual or everyday dress is to remove the separation between church and the rest of our lives. If Jesus came right now, he’d find me in a warm sweater, khakis and loafers-that’s what I wear to the office. I wouldn’t run home to change to “wedding clothes” before I went to see Jesus, I’d RUN to Him in just what I have on. I’m covered, I’m clean and I wouldn’t be embarrassed for Him to see me this way. I’d be more worried about the sins I’ve committed so far this day and how I’m going to have to beg his forgiveness for my driving attitude…

 

[foolishmortal]

We are talking about the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the ritual reenactment, yet the real thing itself, of Calvary, here with heaven opened up and angels flying, floating or however they’re mobile there (offer your petitions to your Guardian Angel to bring at the offertory, even if you can’t go there). When we go to heaven, we will be clothed in whatever capacity of glory we had worked up to with God. We won’t be “wearing” anything less than our best there. Let’s dress for that event with our best unless it’s showy or weather or circumstances do not allow it). I think what we would wear to a business meeting (not in California for guys who might wear loafers and Polo shirts and except for low collars for women) or a dinner party (same restriction for the ladies; guys don’t usually wear low cut collars to these places) is suitable for church if we can. Know you are going to a far greater event than that!
As I said, that’s the principle, anyway, to counter the “God finds you as you are”. I think there is an imbalance between Pharisees before the 60s and “come as you are because God is with you always” of afterwards. St. Francis and other saints didn’t say drop all concern about exteriors of the Faith and only focus on the interiors of the Faith. Jesus did not decry the beautiful temple, but he said that’s not all He wants–He wants it all.

Dress clothes, like beautiful Church architecture is our trouble to give God the best with our time and trouble; but we cannot ignore the call of God to offer up our best interiorly. The same goes vice versa. For an event like the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, God should get nothing less. Since the 60s, He just got more of the other half, at least in emphasis (actually, we started losing people because we did not have this harmony of which I speak and we got silliness and fuzzy feelings and false ecumenism that only helped the evangelicals, Muslims and liberals spread their faiths unabashedly and with the zeal as the Church had before the mid-60s).

 

[foolishmortal]

A lot of parishes where lack of modesty or appropriate dress is common don’t really do anything about it. The pastors at St. Peter Chanel in Hawaiian Gardens, CA (a suburb of Los Angeles) and St. Mary of the Angels in Chicago and St. John Cantius (both in Chicago, IL) all have signs at the entrance of the church that indicate what is proper attire for Mass.

They also need to have the rules for who can receive Communion (it is not some reverse progress in ecumenism, though many feel entitled to everything these days and whine like an adult baby when they can’t get it) and rules saying no leaving after receiving Communion. In fact, ushers should bar the doors until Mass is over or there is a crisis. Holy Communion isn’t Mc Donald’s drive-thru. If our life is so busy, we need to cut some things out unless we have obligations (but I really doubt that’s the case).

Do we need a persecution or hard times to think straight? I have my struggles that could really get ordered better with more prayers and effort on my part. I try to recognize any comfort-bourne philosophies and not lie o myself. Then again, the dress however crowd could be sanguines and honestly incorrect about their philosophy on dress codes or melancholic and scandalized by well-dressed creeps. Still, persecution can be a good equalizer.

 

[lukewarm]

I wore jeans and a hooded sweatshit to Mass last Sunday, I have two kids one on the way and I spent the morning shoveling, I don’t have time to always press slacks and a shirt. Id on’t know I used to think it was some big deal to be dressed up for Mass, but now I don’t think it matters at all. God isn’t impressed with a nicely pressed blazer…

 

[ancilla_Domini]

1 Tim 2:8-10 “I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; also that women should adorn themselves modestly and sensibly in seemly apparel, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly attire but by good deeds, as befits women who profess religion.”
*
What? Do you approach God to pray, with broidered hair and ornaments of gold? Are you come to a dance? to a marriage? to a gay procession? There such a broidery, such costly garments, had been seasonable, here not one of them is wanted. You are come to pray, to supplicate for pardon of your sins, to plead for thine offenses, beseeching the Lord, and hoping to render Him propitious to you. Why do you adorn yourself? This is not the dress of a suppliant. How can you groan? How can you weep? How pray with fervency, when thus attired? Shouldest thou weep, your tears will be the ridicule of the beholders. She that weeps ought not to be wearing gold. It were but acting, and hypocrisy. For is it not acting to pour forth tears from a soul so overgrown with extravagance and ambition? Away with such hypocrisy! God is not mocked! This is the attire of actors and dancers, that live upon the stage. Nothing of this sort becomes a modest woman, who should be adorned “with shamefacedness and sobriety.”*

- St. John Chrysostom, Homily VIII on 1 Timothy​

A couple of other passages to consider in regards to clothes for church.

That could be taken hand in hand with this:
*
“Woe to you, scribes and Pharissees, hypocrites! For you clease the outside of the cup and the plate, but inside they are full of extortion and rapacity” (Matt. 23: 25).*

So here it seems, taken by itself, that God altogether looks down on dressing up for Mass. HOWEVER, we’ve got to take the Bible into context. Look what Jesus says in the next verse:

“First cleanse the inside of the cup and of the plate, that the outside may also be clean” (Matt. 23: 26).

The scribes and Pharisees did dress up a lot, and they put a lot of pomp in it too. But Jesus doesn’t condemn them for that; He condemns them for loving themselves in their vanity and pretending to be reverent when they really don’t put in an effort to love God and to mercifully watch over their flocks.

So it seems that what St. Paul and the early Church fathers are saying is, “Don’t dress up to impress other people.” It’s a show of pride. However, what some of us are encouraging and promoting is putting effort into getting ready for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and going an extra bit farther to show God that we believe that the Holy Sacrifice is the most special event we could ever attend, above any wedding, funeral, dinner, or date.

So if we dress up for Mass, it BETTER be because we’ve already washed the inside of our cups through prayer and penance and we’re ready to prep the outside. The outside is a representation of what’s going on inside. Catch my drift?

Again, I believe we should dress well and appropriately not for the sake of impressing others, but for the sake of loving God. That means we’re NOT wearing a bunch of gold, jewels or makeup, but just showing that we care about what’s going on. He doesn’t require it, but the extra effort is what love is sometimes. And if jeans and a sweatshirt are the best we can do at the moment (I’ve done it before), then God would understand.

 

[rstegeman]

I wouldn’t be opposed to a uniform of some sort. Something similar to the albs the servers wear. That way it doesn’t matter and there are less distractions in Church which would help us to focus on the Mass. I know that at Christmas and especially Easter services, I can be distracted by the attire of others. Invariably, it seems, you will always get at least one lady at Easter Mass that wears a ginormous hat that can’t help but to draw attention.

We make our kids wear uniforms in our schools to reduce distraction and competition. The military uses them, partly to reduce the idea of the individual and promote the idea of a unit. So why not a Mass uniform that way we are all the same, from the poorest of the poor to the richest of the rich. No more temptation to presume the circumstances of another individual based on their attire.

When the question of attire goes beyond modesty, I think it treads ground that is a slippery slope. Definitely leads us to be judgemental, which is bad. And if looking at from a poor person’s perspective, they could be made to feel intimidated, inferior, inadequate, etc. just because everyone else is dressed to the nines (again, the uniform idea would take that away). And what about a person who doesn’t have a suit and goes to get one just for Mass. Is he being disrespectful by buying the cheapest one when he could affor the nicest suit that they have? And then who decides which is the nicest suit. Then again, why aren’t we wearing tuxedos or formal gowns? If that is too far, why? Don’t get me wrong, I think we should dress respectfully and modestly but I think that is driven more at the parish level (the respectful part). Also, if something is formal or appropriate here in the US, is it formal or appropriate in another part of the world?

Back to my argument for uniforms. Not only would it take social class out of it, it would also take differences in ethnicities out of it as far as their attires are concerned. I mean, I love the idea that when I go to Mass, I am celebrating the same Mass that millions across the globe are celebrating. So would it be nice to go one step further and symbollically come together as one people and attend Mass in the same garb. Just an idea.

 

[rstegeman]

God Himself has told us that He is with us at all times. We don’t leave God behind when we leave Mass. He’s not only in the tabernacle. I think part of the discussion regarding casual or everyday dress is to remove the separation between church and the rest of our lives. If Jesus came right now, he’d find me in a warm sweater, khakis and loafers-that’s what I wear to the office. I wouldn’t run home to change to “wedding clothes” before I went to see Jesus, I’d RUN to Him in just what I have on. I’m covered, I’m clean and I wouldn’t be embarrassed for Him to see me this way. I’d be more worried about the sins I’ve committed so far this day and how I’m going to have to beg his forgiveness for my driving attitude…

I agree totally. This goes back to the whole modesty thing. We should always dress modestly because you never know who you’ll run into. Not to mention, you don’t want to give cause for someone else to sin.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I agree totally. This goes back to the whole modesty thing. We should always dress modestly because you never know who you’ll run into. Not to mention, you don’t want to give cause for someone else to sin.

I had been told over and over by well meaning Catholic women that I was selfish, immodest and vain because I didn’t want to put dresses and skirts on for Jesus. I have never felt comfortable in dresses or skirts, not even as a child. It’s just never been my thing, but these ladies convinced me that I must just be a bad person and needed to overcome my sin. After spending a miserable YEAR trying to conform, I went to my confessor, nearly in tears over it and he said “Good heavens, who told you that you MUST wear skirts and dresses all the time to be modest??? Are your clothes clean?, Are all your body parts properly covered? If you can answer yes to that, then lets move on to more important issues, shall we?” I was never so grateful in my life.

I’m always modestly dressed, my clothes are clean and I wear the best things in my closet to Mass. However, I’m sure those same ladies and others like them are still shaking their heads and clucking their tongues over my slacks.

I think when we start looking at other people’s clothing choices at Mass, we need to stop a second and ask ourselves WHY we’re doing it. If it’s because the person is truly immodestly dressed or dirty, then perhaps a word to the Pastor is in order, so it can be handled delicately. Other than that, people’s choices should be between themselves and God.

 

[foolishmortal]

Getting scandalized happens sometimes by righteousness. We have to avoid it by not being flashy, but not being dumpy. I think poor people can find cheap clothes that look like what they could afford. If they are poor, I would think they would have warm clothes–even in Arizona, because the nights get cold. I think we could guess they’re poor. We shouldn’t judge, but we should have general standards so obviously not poor people don’t start dressing like they don’t care or people don’t dress like they are dressed to impress. I think common senses dictates. Even if some have some spiritual disorder of Phariseeism, it should not be an occasion of lowering standards.

Pointing out extreme examples of modern day Pharisees does not help an argument based upon principle. Stuff happens that make dressing how we would attend something secularly important, such as a dinner party, difficult, but we shouldn’t defend not trying to dress like that for something as religious, supernaturally, spiritually (what have you) important as the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. We are humans because we connect to the world by senses. The interior state only argument doesn’t fly.

 

[KathleenElsie]

I had been told over and over by well meaning Catholic women that I was selfish, immodest and vain because I didn’t want to put dresses and skirts on for Jesus. I have never felt comfortable in dresses or skirts, not even as a child. It’s just never been my thing, but these ladies convinced me that I must just be a bad person and needed to overcome my sin. After spending a miserable YEAR trying to conform, I went to my confessor, nearly in tears over it and he said “Good heavens, who told you that you MUST wear skirts and dresses all the time to be modest??? Are your clothes clean?, Are all your body parts properly covered? If you can answer yes to that, then lets move on to more important issues, shall we?” I was never so grateful in my life.

I’m always modestly dressed, my clothes are clean and I wear the best things in my closet to Mass. However, I’m sure those same ladies and others like them are still shaking their heads and clucking their tongues over my slacks.

I think when we start looking at other people’s clothing choices at Mass, we need to stop a second and ask ourselves WHY we’re doing it. If it’s because the person is truly immodestly dressed or dirty, then perhaps a word to the Pastor is in order, so it can be handled delicately. Other than that, people’s choices should be between themselves and God.

As a woman that wears skirts and dresses all I can say is I’M SORRY that you went through this. Your priest was correct, if your body is covered and you are clean, that matters more then if you wear dresses and skirts. Modesty does not mean dresses and skirts. Modesty is a way of life not a way of dress.

 

[Andruschak]

One person said he (I think it was a guy) doesn’t dress out of the '50s or '60s. What’s wrong with dressing up like the '50s or '60s. I think we ought to go back to hats, not caps, but not wear them at Mass. We should be dressed our best for God if we dress so nicely for work.

Would a full-style Zoot Suit be acceptable if I wore it? Yes, I have one. How about a full kilt outfit? Yes, I wore that to my confirmation, and the kilt, as is proper, had the hem one inch above the knee.

But in truth my weekly sunday attire is indeed California casual. Clean work trousers. Clean plain blue T-shirt. Or a clean long-sleeved shirt. Z-coil shoes (flat feet). “Clean” to include ignoring all the cat hairs on my outfit. Very much the same as my work attire.

Certainly modest. I wear a size too large casula trousers to cover up the fat redistribution after a certain surgery. Dress trousers might make my fatty hips and thighs too obvious. The shirts are loose enough to make my gynecomastia not too obvious, as well as cover my narrow shoulders.

 

[brigid12]

In looking through the postings on this and other threads like it, it seems to me that some of the “resistance” to wearing our best clothes to Mass (excluding slipping in from work, extreme poverty and everyone agrees on modesty mostly) have to do with our ideas of God as either transcendent or immanent (or of course, my personal favorite, both). Is that what you see, also?

 

[ancilla_Domini]

Hmm, although I agree with you that He is transcendent and imminent, I don’t think of that while getting dressed for Mass. I just tell myself that the Holy Sacrifice is the most important date, dinner (it is a holy banquet), or appointment I could ever attend.

On a side note:

I work at a homeless shelter and supervise the women’s dorm at night time to make sure nothing goes wrong and that everyone has what they need to make it through the next day. Anyway, I’ve never worked the Saturday-night-to-Sunday-morning shift before. I was inspired to see my church-going ladies getting dressed in the best clothes they had. For some of them, it was a blouse and a skirt (with tights for the cold Chicago weather). For others, it was the best pair of jeans and the t-shirt that was the cleanest. But all of them were careful to make sure that they were dressed modestly and in their “Sunday best” for church. I was glad.