clothing

[Kathrin]

Taste and such factors aside - would anyone consider it a downright SIN to go to mass with pants that are a little torn at the knees?
What if somebody is poor and doesn’t have much clothing, or can’t do laundry much etc?

Kathrin

 

[AquinaSavio]

Taste and such factors aside - would anyone consider it a downright SIN to go to mass with pants that are a little torn at the knees?

It depends on their reasons. If they’re doing it because they don’t want to dress up, then it probably would be the sin of laziness. It just depends on their motives and reasons. A lot of people find that kind of dress to be disrespectful, especially if the person has better clothes but won’t wear them.

What if somebody is poor and doesn’t have much clothing, or can’t do laundry much etc?

Kathrin

That is entirely different. It certainly would be no sin because they have nothing else to wear.

 

[lizaanne]

It depends on their reasons. If they’re doing it because they don’t want to dress up, then it probably would be the sin of laziness. It just depends on their motives and reasons. A lot of people find that kind of dress to be disrespectful, especially if the person has better clothes but won’t wear them.

That is entirely different. It certainly would be no sin because they have nothing else to wear.

Good answer!

~Liza

 

[Kathrin]

What if it would just be very inconvenient to change clothing? Like, you’re on the way from somewhere else. Or you have a very small room and don’t want two “dirty” pants lying around?

Oh, and what if you feel that Jesus wasn’t dressed up, and God doesn’t love us for our neat clothing but we can come to him however we are, and He will love us, and societal standards are just a form of idolatry?

 

[AquinaSavio]

What if it would just be very inconvenient to change clothing? Like, you’re on the way from somewhere else. Or you have a very small room and don’t want two “dirty” pants lying around?

Well, sometimes that just shows how much trouble someone is willing to go to in order to be presentable at Mass. I usually go to great lengths to wear nice clothes, including a tie. But, it really becomes sinful when you wear something immodest, especially to Mass.

Oh, and what if you feel that Jesus wasn’t dressed up, and God doesn’t love us for our neat clothing but we can come to him however we are, and He will love us, and societal standards are just a form of idolatry?

Well, I’ve argued this point so many times since coming to CAF. I’ll just quote Dr. McInerny this time:

The Book of Ecclesiastes instructs us that there is an appointed time for everything, for laughing and for weeping, for preserving things and for giving them away, for tearing the garment and for sewing it back up again. And may we respectfully add, there is a time for formality and for informality–for both. We live in a world which is imbalanced in any number and variety of ways, some of them more serious than others. One of the imbalances we bear witness to is the over-emphasis that is given to informality, in just about every aspect of our lives. In fact, informality would seem to have undergone something like cultural enshrinement. In the minds of many people, to be informal is the only way to be. At the same time, formality is roundly neglected, if not regarded as having something positively perverse about it. Now, this particular kind of imbalance–favoring informality at the expense of formality–is not all that serious, taken in itself, but I think it is worth giving some attention to because it is reflective of more serious imbalances in our society. It is a minor problem, but it is a sign of deeper problems.

Let us be clear about something right at the outset. There is obviously nothing at all wrong with informality. In fact, it can be regarded as a positive good. But here is the interesting part: informality gains whatever goodness it has only because it can be contrasted with formality. It is only when a lively distinction is maintained between formality and informality that each is given due honor, and life is supplied with that variety which, so the sages tell us, lends it spice. But when everything is reduced to the informal, which it seems we are pretty close to doing, then informality itself loses its savor. The principle I am appealing to here might be better understood if we think in terms of fun, something else of which our age is especially enamored, if not positively obsessed by. If everything is reduced to fun, if “having fun” becomes the principal purpose of life, then very quickly fun itself ceases to be any fun. The underlying lesson in this is that everything turns sour for us if we fail to make seeking the “One Thing Necessary” our most important task.

Informality is displayed in the general way we behave, and , more specifically, in our language, and in how we dress. There is a proper place for informal behavior, such as when we are among family and friends. Here we can relax, need not “stand on ceremony.” But when we deal with humanity at large, when we are in the public arena, we should behave formally toward others. Why? The principal reason is that this is the best, most effective way we can show them the respect that is owing to them. Now, mind you, formal behavior does not mean cold, stiff, off-putting behavior. Far from it. Formal behavior is fully compatible with a warm, friendly, outgoing demeanor. Formal behavior, at its best, should be considered as a type of politeness, an expression of common courtesy.

Continued…

 

[AquinaSavio]

Continued…

The most obvious way we can show formality in our speech is to avoid any language that is cheap or vulgar or scurrilous, not to say sacrilegious or blasphemous, as well as any language which, given the circumstances in which we find ourselves, could be gratuitously offensive to others. It is common practice today to address everyone by their first names, friends and perfect strangers alike. Titles like “Mr.” and “Mrs.” and “Miss” have almost completely gone out of use. This is a real loss. We seem to think that there is something especially democratic about addressing people by their first names, as if we are thereby acknowledging the fundamental equality of all human beings. But the rationale turns out to be less than fully convincing. Many businesses have their personnel call customers and potential customers by their first names principally for the purposes of commercial expediency. The practice smacks of disingenuousness, for it represents a vain attempt to suggest a degree of intimacy which, given the situation, does not and cannot exist. Friendship is implied, but it is false, because no true friendship can be instantaneous. Operative here is what Aristotle called “friendship of utility,” by which we act in a friendly manner toward people only because we want to gain something from them. It is presumptuous to address adult strangers by their first names, unless invited by them to do so, and it can be positively disrespectful if they are elderly, for it effectively treats them as if they were children. And what are we to say of the practice of addressing everyone indiscriminately as “you guys”? That, besides displaying a singular lack of imagination and sensitivity toward others, is a prime example of the crudest kind of leveling.

Clothes have two purposes: they provide protection against the elements, and they serve as a preservation of modesty. Clothes are a kind of language, by which we communicate to others what we think of ourselves, and what we think of them. By formal dress we show respect both for ourselves and for others. Formal dress is not fancy dress, much less expensive dress; it is simply neat, clean, orderly dress, the kind of dress St. Francis wanted for his friars. To consistently appear in public in a slovenly, unkempt manner is to show disrespect for others. To dress immodestly is to show disrespect for oneself–specifically, for one’s body, as a temple of the Holy Ghost–but it is also to insult the sensitivities of others, and perhaps even to provide them with an occasion of sin.

By formality in dress we show respect, most of all, toward God and the things of God. To participate in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass as if one were just coming from the beach or going out to the back yard to do some gardening–this is not an exaggerated description of how many Catholics today dress (or fail to dress) for Church during the summer months–shows the dimmest sense of how one should vest oneself in the presence of the sacred.

But, one might protest, all these things are only externals. To which the proper response is: externals should never be qualified by “only.” We are not pure spirits, but creatures composed of body and soul. The body, in relation to the soul, can be regarded as an “external.” That does not mean that it is of incidental importance. There is no question that what takes place in the soul is more important than what takes place in the body; nonetheless, what takes place in the body can directly affect the soul, for better or for worse. How we treat the body, how we clothe the body is no minor matter. Neither is how we behave generally in public, nor how we make use of language. Externals count. Formality counts.

 

[Kathrin]

Thanks for the replies! Very interesting.
Yeah I guess this topic has appeared here before. Maybe I shouldn’t have brought it up again.
Kathrin

 

[AquinaSavio]

Thanks for the replies! Very interesting.
Yeah I guess this topic has appeared here before. Maybe I shouldn’t have brought it up again.
Kathrin

You are very welcome! I found them to be very good reading.

And yes…it has unfortunately been a sore subject in the past. A lot of times, it is good practice to do a search on the subject you are interested in. :yup:

God bless!

 

[CarrieH]

What if it would just be very inconvenient to change clothing? Like, you’re on the way from somewhere else. Or you have a very small room and don’t want two “dirty” pants lying around?

IMHO, you should make an effort to dress nicely for Sunday Mass. Why not wear the nicer outfit to the other place you are going, too? If it would be inconvenient to wear a dress and heels, at least put on a nice pair of slacks rather than a pair of torn jeans. However, I have been guilty of stopping in for weekday Mass or Adoration wearing jeans or whatever, but usually it was a spur-of-the-moment decision to stop in, I hadn’t planned in advance to go there. But if I am dressed too shabbily, I wouldn’t go in; I’d be too uncomfortable sitting in church looking really grubby.

Of course, if a person is very poor and the only clothes he/she has is a pair of torn jeans, I’m sure our Lord understands.

 

[AquinaSavio]

IMHO, you should make an effort to dress nicely for Sunday Mass. Why not wear the nicer outfit to the other place you are going, too? If it would be inconvenient to wear a dress and heels, at least put on a nice pair of slacks rather than a pair of torn jeans. However, I have been guilty of stopping in for weekday Mass or Adoration wearing jeans or whatever, but usually it was a spur-of-the-moment decision to stop in, I hadn’t planned in advance to go there. But if I am dressed too shabbily, I wouldn’t go in; I’d be too uncomfortable sitting in church looking really grubby.

Of course, if a person is very poor and the only clothes he/she has is a pair of torn jeans, I’m sure our Lord understands.

Yes, I know God would understand. The good thing is that you made an effort to come.

 

[bluerose]

Taste and such factors aside - would anyone consider it a downright SIN to go to mass with pants that are a little torn at the knees?
What if somebody is poor and doesn’t have much clothing, or can’t do laundry much etc?

Kathrin

As I once told my then-15-year-old stepdaughter when she tried to sneak past her dad and me in torn jeans and a t-shirt for Mass…

You are not a homeless street person. If you have $200 for a prom dress, plus the money and time to spend in a salon getting your hair and nails done, to spend ONE evening with a bunch of your friends at a dance, you can spend $30 for a nice dress and 20 minutes to wash your face, comb your hair and brush your teeth to spend an hour with Our Lord EVERY week.

Now I’m telling our 13-year-old son the same thing (except the parts about the dresses )

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Taste and such factors aside - would anyone consider it a downright SIN to go to mass with pants that are a little torn at the knees?
What if somebody is poor and doesn’t have much clothing, or can’t do laundry much etc?

Kathrin

At least clothing is NOT optional for Mass, it is still required in most places!

 

[CB_Catholic]

At least clothing is NOT optional for Mass, it is still required in most places!

Well, this past Sunday somebody showed up bare naked for Mass at one of our local churches. He was arrested. No reason was given for his nakedness. Maybe he didn’t have anthing to wear.

 

[Sr_Sally]

As I once told my then-15-year-old stepdaughter when she tried to sneak past her dad and me in torn jeans and a t-shirt for Mass…

You are not a homeless street person. If you have $200 for a prom dress, plus the money and time to spend in a salon getting your hair and nails done, to spend ONE evening with a bunch of your friends at a dance, you can spend $30 for a nice dress and 20 minutes to wash your face, comb your hair and brush your teeth to spend an hour with Our Lord EVERY week.

Now I’m telling our 13-year-old son the same thing (except the parts about the dresses )

This is an excellent point. My dsis calls it her daughter’s “temple dress” after a joke with a Jewish collegue (who has the same problem with *her *daughter).

Even the girls who are into the ‘grunge’ look (or whatever it is called now) will wear dress up for prom or another dance.

 

[THurifer2]

Taste and such factors aside - would anyone consider it a downright SIN to go to mass with pants that are a little torn at the knees?
What if somebody is poor and doesn’t have much clothing, or can’t do laundry much etc?

Kathrin

It wouldn’t have a problem with bad clothes. The lower income people around here seem to be the most modestly dressed people at Mass…we could all learn from them.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

This is why it’s time to either BYOA (bring your own alb) or have a rack of them in the back of the church.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Well, this past Sunday somebody showed up bare naked for Mass at one of our local churches. He was arrested. No reason was given for his nakedness. Maybe he didn’t have anthing to wear.

I really was just kidding!!!

 

[JimR-OCDS]

What if it would just be very inconvenient to change clothing? Like, you’re on the way from somewhere else. Or you have a very small room and don’t want two “dirty” pants lying around?

Oh, and what if you feel that Jesus wasn’t dressed up, and God doesn’t love us for our neat clothing but we can come to him however we are, and He will love us, and societal standards are just a form of idolatry?

What if ? What if? What if?

What answer are you really looking for?

Jim