Clown Mass

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It’s maybe fun to some people to make fun of clown masses. It’s really sad, if people do think it’s funny. Our Lord suffered and was crucified for what those people in the Clown mass did. In fact, its just the crowning of thorns live all over again.
 
Has anyone here ever witnessed (or even known someone else who witnessed) a “Clown Mass” in real life? Simply because a video pops up on YouTube doesn’t mean that this is a widespread phenomenon. That it happens at all is, of course, truly reprehensible, but let’s not blow it out of proportion.

How do we know this is even a real “Church Service” and not simply something staged? There are a few key details missing like location and date (not to mention the name of the “celebrant” and his “affiliation”). Add to that the fact that they incorporate multiple camera angles, and it really seems staged.

The second video posted is more believable. It gives a name, diocese, and the camera work (which is obviously ameteur) displays the date (which was 7 years ago). Of course, with no audio, it’s hard to tell exactly what is going on. It doesn’t appear to be an actual liturgy, even though it does take place in a Church (albeit, one ugly Church). The candles are lit, but there are also clowns, so I’m not sure that detail by itself indicates that it is definitely taking place within the liturgy. Even if it was, it was 7 years ago. I doubt Bishop Cordileone (or Archbishop Vigneron before him) is turning a blind eye to such things.
 
My question is how would any thinking priest allow this to happen. Never should have gotten that far. The video you are referring to was from Oakland, CA. Correct? I believe the priest in question was also accused of blessing a gay union. You can google it.
 
I would love to see a Forum rule that required any posting concerning a “clown Mass” to specify the city (if not the parish), and the date it took place. That would be a whole lot better than this endless recycling of - and wallowing in - tired and uncertain YouTube videos in a sorry attempt to claim that every parish in the whole country offers at least one “clown Mass” every weekend.
 
\Look at the number of those raising their hands. What’s that about anyway? \

**It happens in Melkite and Eastern Christian Churches generally (Orthodox, Non-Chalcedonian, Assyrian).

Did you think the Latin Rite was the standard of all Christian liturgy?**
 
Bishop Basil - I do not dispute your observations but you do have to realize that most of us Latin types have little to no exposure to our Eastern brethren. My experience with hand-holding and hand-raising has been via evangelical/spiritual Protestantism. My direct experience (albeit limited) with my Eastern brethren was what I can only call the Easter Vigil on Holy Saturday at an Eastern Orthodox cathedral. I can assure you that they did not hold hands or raise them up at the Lord’s Prayer.

I did not like the hand holding when it started in the 80s nor the raising of hands at the conclusion of the Lord’s Prayer which, unfortunately, reminded me of the wave at Tiger Stadium (LSU) which started in the 90s. Even more unfortunately, is that such actions are more reminiscent of our Southern Baptist neighbors who live on our doorsteps. Thanks but no thanks my friend. We are Roman Catholics and our traditions are ours. I grew up before Vatican II and everything that is being written about is a product of the 80s and 90s.

If that makes me a cultural dinosaur, so be it. I’m Irish and cannot forget what my ancestors had to endure. I’m French too. There is no Missa Chank-a-Chank amongst my Acadian (Cajun) brethren. I am not a Melkite nor any sort of Eastern Catholic (God bless them). I do, however, have the bona fides as an authentic Latin Catholic who happens to like his own cultural/liturgical heritage.

And before anyone hits me with the Hispanic element, I can give you any number of references to Cuban, Mexican, and Peruvian authors who exceeded their counterparts in Europe at the same time.

Shall I tell you about the number of Jazz funerals I witnessed in eigth grade in New Orleans? Shall I tell you about the casket being carried down the street with a brass band playing a dirge? Shall I tell you that the brass band did not enter the church and that a standard Requiem Mass was said in Latin? Anything and everything happened after 1970.

That, my friend, is where the real problem lies.
 
brotherhrolf said:
Bishop Basil - I do not dispute your observations but you do have to realize that most of us Latin types have little to no exposure to our Eastern brethren. My experience with hand-holding and hand-raising has been via evangelical/spiritual Protestantism. My direct experience (albeit limited) with my Eastern brethren was what I can only call the Easter Vigil on Holy Saturday at an Eastern Orthodox cathedral. I can assure you that they did not hold hands or raise them up at the Lord’s Prayer.

I did not like the hand holding when it started in the 80s nor the raising of hands at the conclusion of the Lord’s Prayer which, unfortunately, reminded me of the wave at Tiger Stadium (LSU) which started in the 90s. Even more unfortunately, is that such actions are more reminiscent of our Southern Baptist neighbors who live on our doorsteps. Thanks but no thanks my friend. We are Roman Catholics and our traditions are ours. I grew up before Vatican II and everything that is being written about is a product of the 80s and 90s.

If that makes me a cultural dinosaur, so be it. I’m Irish and cannot forget what my ancestors had to endure. I’m French too. There is no Missa Chank-a-Chank amongst my Acadian (Cajun) brethren. I am not a Melkite nor any sort of Eastern Catholic (God bless them). I do, however, have the bona fides as an authentic Latin Catholic who happens to like his own cultural/liturgical heritage.

And before anyone hits me with the Hispanic element, I can give you any number of references to Cuban, Mexican, and Peruvian authors who exceeded their counterparts in Europe at the same time.

Shall I tell you about the number of Jazz funerals I witnessed in eigth grade in New Orleans? Shall I tell you about the casket being carried down the street with a brass band playing a dirge? Shall I tell you that the brass band did not enter the church and that a standard Requiem Mass was said in Latin? Anything and everything happened after 1970.

That, my friend, is where the real problem lies.
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👍:clapping::highprayer:
 
Ach, who says they’re Catholics? And even if they are, who says it’s a Mass? Do they themselves (the clowns) even pretend it is? And even if some well-meaning priest went a bit too far at putting on a show for the kids, would they actually have called it a Mass? Yes, abuses have happened, but they don’t happen as much as some people think. Yes, lots of people with agendas have always liked to parody the Church, but they’re not the Church.

This is probably another angry Catholic with an agenda, bashing the Church because he can’t come to terms with Vatican II. After all, there’s an awful lot of misinformation on the internet.

A sense of proportion: catholicity.com/commentary/shea/04268.html

Dowie dow’i, (Scot) adj. dull, low-spirited, sad; dismal.
 
dowiecritic said:
Ach, who says they’re Catholics? And even if they are, who says it’s a Mass? Do they themselves (the clowns) even pretend it is? And even if some well-meaning priest went a bit too far at putting on a show for the kids, would they actually have called it a Mass? Yes, abuses have happened, but they don’t happen as much as some people think. Yes, lots of people with agendas have always liked to parody the Church, but they’re not the Church.

This is probably another angry Catholic with an agenda, bashing the Church because he can’t come to terms with Vatican II. After all, there’s an awful lot of misinformation on the internet.

A sense of proportion: catholicity.com/commentary/shea/04268.html

Dowie dow’i, (Scot) adj. dull, low-spirited, sad; dismal.
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I wish everything was as facile as you make it out. I can cite you dates and events over the last 40 plus years starting with my high school graduation in 1969 where we sang Simon and Garfunkel at our graduation Mass for the Offertory and Communion hymns. As a member of a cathedral choir for 20 years, I saw with my own eyes the Cecil B. DeMille liturgical dancers wafting bowls of smoking incense up the main aisle of the cathedral. Or the pole dancers waving their brightly colored beribboned poles as if it were Mardi Gras. Just because you have not seen it, it does not mean that there are those of us who have seen it.

I am no wild-eyed purveyor of the internet. No, I have not seen an actual clown mass but I saw enough abuses at two local parishes in which I have resided that I have driven 25 miles (one way) to attend my cathedral parish since 1983. My current local parish has more in common liturgically and musically with our Southern Baptist neighbors.

Please do not “pooh - pooh” me and others like me with such a broad brush. Just because you and the author of the article may not have seen abuses, some of us have - from glass chalices used by a bishop on down.

Please permit me one other observation. You can take a frog and place it in a pot of cool water on a stove. You can increase the temperature until the water is boiling and the frog dies. I grew up before Vatican II. I was in high school when the changes started to occur in 1967. If you grew up after that time, you have no frame of reference. You are that frog in the water. You accept as the norm things which are anything but normal because you have no frame of reference.
 
brotherhrolf said:
I wish everything was as facile as you make it out. I can cite you dates and events over the last 40 plus years starting with my high school graduation in 1969 where we sang Simon and Garfunkel at our graduation Mass for the Offertory and Communion hymns. As a member of a cathedral choir for 20 years, I saw with my own eyes the Cecil B. DeMille liturgical dancers wafting bowls of smoking incense up the main aisle of the cathedral. Or the pole dancers waving their brightly colored beribboned poles as if it were Mardi Gras. Just because you have not seen it, it does not mean that there are those of us who have seen it.

I am no wild-eyed purveyor of the internet. No, I have not seen an actual clown mass but I saw enough abuses at two local parishes in which I have resided that I have driven 25 miles (one way) to attend my cathedral parish since 1983. My current local parish has more in common liturgically and musically with our Southern Baptist neighbors.

Please do not “pooh - pooh” me and others like me with such a broad brush. Just because you and the author of the article may not have seen abuses, some of us have - from glass chalices used by a bishop on down.

Please permit me one other observation. You can take a frog and place it in a pot of cool water on a stove. You can increase the temperature until the water is boiling and the frog dies. I grew up before Vatican II. I was in high school when the changes started to occur in 1967. If you grew up after that time, you have no frame of reference. You are that frog in the water. You accept as the norm things which are anything but normal because you have no frame of reference.
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😊 rebuked.

My rather sarcastic remark was directed at the YouTube poster, not at anyone on the forum. From now on I’ll limit myself to asking questions, and stay well clear of any *ist forums.

Meanwhile, I’ve got that ever so gently frozen frog to look forward to.

:imsorry: :sad_bye:
 
dowiecritic said:
Ach, who says they’re Catholics? And even if they are, who says it’s a Mass? Do they themselves (the clowns) even pretend it is? And even if some well-meaning priest went a bit too far at putting on a show for the kids, would they actually have called it a Mass? Yes, abuses have happened, but they don’t happen as much as some people think. Yes, lots of people with agendas have always liked to parody the Church, but they’re not the Church.

This is probably another angry Catholic with an agenda, bashing the Church because he can’t come to terms with Vatican II. After all, there’s an awful lot of misinformation on the internet.

A sense of proportion: catholicity.com/commentary/shea/04268.html

Dowie dow’i, (Scot) adj. dull, low-spirited, sad; dismal.
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I agree with David Bowie.
 
There should be a warning on this thread for new members interested in the CC.

I find it somewhat outrageous that this much discussion could take place over youtube videos that no one can verify are even held in a Catholic Church. Take a look at some Church of the Subgenius videos out there…sure it may “look” like some kind of Mass or Service, but they are not. I have feeling that the clown mass is a similar thing. However if any of these rumors ARE true, and indeed this is some kind of Christian event, be it Catholic or otherwise, I hope I never personally witness anything like it.

All this and I am not even Baptized yet, but heresy like this is pretty obviously wrong, and offensive. I’m sure God has a sense of humor, but woah…
 
aicirt said:
It isn’t one Mass. Check out the videos on YouTube regarding abuses of Masses. You have your clown “mass”, Halloween “mass” complete with the singers in devil costumes, dancing masses where they’re leaping up and down the aisles, and a few young women in dresses cut up to the thigh.
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Don’t forget POLKA MASSES!!! As much as I do enjoy polka music(being of Polish descent and at one time a prodigy on the old Stomach Steinway(accordion)) the very though of them makes my traditional skin crawl, and at my weight, that’s an awful lot of crawling!!!😃
 
Ah, yes, the infamous Polka Mass. I have actually seen that one and, yes, it was a Catholic Mass. As I pointed out earlier, we have many indigenous musical traditions here in south Louisiana. There are no Missa Chank-a-chanks reflecting Cajun dance hall traditions. The brass bands associated with Jazz Funerals in New Orleans do not enter the church. There was a premier performance of a new Mass based upon all of New Orlean’s musical heritage which was performed at the Cathedral and had all three archbishops in attendance but it was a concert performance.

Obviously, not all of the videos in circulation represent actual Catholic Masses. It is difficult (unless you can actually hear the responses - prayers) to discern between a high Episcopalian mass and an OF Mass.

It was not my intention to rebuke anyone. It is frustrating to me to realize that a) I was alive and in high school when everything changed (p.s. I’m not dead yet, I’m feeling better…:D) and b) there is ofttimes the supposition that we all liked the changes back then. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Although the Motu Proprio has not been acted upon in my diocese, for the first time in over 40 years I have some sort of hope that we are finally waking up and acknowledging that we threw the baby out with the bathwater in 1967
 
dowiecritic said:
Ach, who says they’re Catholics? And even if they are, who says it’s a Mass? Do they themselves (the clowns) even pretend it is? And even if some well-meaning priest went a bit too far at putting on a show for the kids, would they actually have called it a Mass?** Yes, abuses have happened, but they don’t happen as much as some people think.** Yes, lots of people with agendas have always liked to parody the Church, but they’re not the Church.

This is probably another angry Catholic with an agenda, bashing the Church because he can’t come to terms with Vatican II. After all, there’s an awful lot of misinformation on the internet.

A sense of proportion: catholicity.com/commentary/shea/04268.html

Dowie dow’i, (Scot) adj. dull, low-spirited, sad; dismal.
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Thank God that there are still Catholics left who find these abuses horrible. As far as the “well-meaning priest”, I don’t think so. Ten to one the video comes from California &, if you think that Roger Mahoney & Todd Brown are “well-meaning”, you are wrong. They know about these “Masses”, they allow them. Their in-your-face contempt of the Pope & all things Catholic is an insult to all of us who believe that Christ lives in the Eucharist, that He deserves our utmost respect.

By the way, perhaps this particular Mass is rare…but abuses are common-place. I doubt there is anyone posting here who has not attended a Mass filled with abuses.

…Does your parish actually** schedule ** EEM’s?
…Does your Sunday Mass use girls as altar servers?
…Do your homilies include pro-gay marriage & “gay families” in their recital of i intentions?
…Do you know where the Tabernacle is located?
…Are there Liturgical “dancers” in your Sanctuary?
…Are the opportunities for Confession plentiful & scheduled to make it easy for all to attend?

IMO., when we minimize these abuses, we’re part of the problem.
 
dowiecritic said:
😊 rebuked.

My rather sarcastic remark was directed at the YouTube poster, not at anyone on the forum. From now on I’ll limit myself to asking questions, and stay well clear of any *ist forums.

Meanwhile, I’ve got that ever so gently frozen frog to look forward to.

:imsorry: :sad_bye:
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Ok, guys. I was the one who posted the youtube video on here. A while back, as I have looked at liturgical abuses, I thought this one was also Catholic. Thanks to the person who said in one of the post that this might have been an Espicopal Church. I took it on myself and did the research, and it turns out, it is from an Espiscopal Church. Here is the website.

orthodoxytoday.org/articles5/LaymanClownEucharist.php
 
By the way, I thought it was Catholic, cause the person who posted it on youtube is also Catholic. LOL
 
Thankyou brotherhrolf, rest assured it was not my intention to offend either. It was rather to suggest that this particular video is in all probability not a Mass (let alone a Catholic one). Unfortunately, my manner was totally inappropriate, as was my mixture of sarcasm, irony, hyperbole, understatement, … very ill-judged. Please accept once again my apology.

To CradleCath and others who may inadvertently stumble on my comment, rest assured that I do not in any way condone any such abuses, I find them just as horrible as you do.

**It was not my intention to offend, but unfortunately I have done. Please accept my apology.
It was not my intention to provoke, but evidently I have. Please accept my apology.
It was not my intention to start a fight, but it most definitely looks that way. Please accept my apology.

Mea maxima culpa**

If I could edit or delete my post, I would have done so. Failing that, the only thing I can do is notify my post to the moderator, and I will be doing that next. Perhaps the moderator would be so kind as to do whatever seems best to avoid any further harm.

I will in any case immediately and permanently ‘lapse’ from catholic.com.

Please remember me in your prayers, you are in mine too.

David.
 
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