Clunker mass

[Lutheranteach]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

 

[twopekinguys]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

I am trying to respond with all Christian charity, but…

Is there anything about this parish you do like?

You have started threads about being snubbed in this parish, going against the DRE in a debate, Catholic schools should be nicer to non Catholics?

I am seeing a definite trend. If you are unhappy with the parish you are currently in, I am sure there are others in your area that you could attend.

By the way. The Mass is people (yes everday people) coming together in worship. It is not a performance. It is not a competition with another church, no matter what the denomination.

Maybe instead of gossiping with others in attendance, you should have directed your comments and observations to the priest.

 

[Lutheranteach]

Is there anything I like?

1. The teachers
2. The principal
3. The kids
4. The parents
5. The DRE was wonderfully sweet and kind but was driven out because of some personal decisions. She really did know her stuff
6. The ability of the people to come together for a good cause
7. The coaches and the things they instill in the kids
8. The Priest when he asks me to be do the one thing he needs me to do most for him — which in his words is to “Be brutally honest and totally unmerciful” when talking to him about what I see, hear, and think of the parish and the school. And yes, after the mass he asked what I thought and I promptly told him
9. The 8th graders who are saying things like: “instead of just doing things at mass I know think about why and what it means to do things at mass.” And that they are asking others to do the same.
10. 99% of the masses
11. the work kids are doing and the level of participation they are giving to the church

So yes, there are things I like. And I like it enough to actually give help to make it better since I have been asked.

While you may think a mass isn’t a show, on some level it is (and better be), especially on Christmas Eve. Do you want twice a year attendees leaving wanting to come back or so you want them walking out saying: “Well there’s an hour of my life I’ll never get back.” And for those who are questioning their faith or unchurched but looking it certainly is a competition.

 

[bpbasilphx]

We can’t bat 1000. Nobody does, in fact, but Jesus.

Many people have commented on the rather dull singing in many Latin parishes. (Eastern ones are considerably better at this.) Thomas Day’s WHY CATHOLICS CAN’T SING is one such book.

One thing that helps is having a decent organ (in the Western tradition). That’s something that Lutherans have a great history of doing!

 

[Lutheranteach]

We can’t bat 1000. Nobody does, in fact, but Jesus.

Many people have commented on the rather dull singing in many Latin parishes. (Eastern ones are considerably better at this.) Thomas Day’s WHY CATHOLICS CAN’T SING is one such book.

One thing that helps is having a decent organ (in the Western tradition). That’s something that Lutherans have a great history of doing!

I agree, no one bats 1,000 just awful timing for a one day slump I suppose

 

[kalt]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

You and your family went to a Christmas Mass and all you came away with was a Siskel and Ebert two thumbs down.

Sorry, Masses are not about putting a show on for you. Hopefully, your Catholic relatives realize that the Eucharist is what it’s all about and “enjoyed” it even thought the Rockettes’ kicks weren’t quite as high as in past years.

 

[izoid]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

It seems as though you are just trying to be critical here. Is there actually a question in your post?

What exactly, not generalities but specifics, that you felt were duds? How were the readings butchered, what was wrong with the homily?

The “clergy person” does not need to be “on their game” ever. They need to honor God, they do not exist to entertain you or anyone else. As far as the singing goes, too bad. If you were singing loud enough you would never hear others around you.

 

[StrawberryJam]

I felt it was too crowded to be at Mass on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. I did try to stay for both for the entire duration, but I just couldn’t do it. I wouldn’t have cared about the music or the other factors but it was too crowded for me.
I’ve seen great, and not so great Masses if one was rating them on a scale of some kind. That’s to be expected I think. But, great or not if I were a catholic unless there were some abuses going on, I would still go. I’m sure Peter and Paul and the others gave some lousy homilies themselves. Priests are human.

 

[twopekinguys]

You and your family went to a Christmas Mass and all you came away with was a Siskel and Ebert two thumbs down.

Sorry, Masses are not about putting a show on for you. Hopefully, your Catholic relatives realize that the Eucharist is what it’s all about and “enjoyed” it even thought the Rockettes’ kicks weren’t quite as high as in past years.

My point exactly

 

[twopekinguys]

Is there anything I like?

1. The teachers
2. The principal
3. The kids
4. The parents
5. The DRE was wonderfully sweet and kind but was driven out because of some personal decisions. She really did know her stuff
6. The ability of the people to come together for a good cause
7. The coaches and the things they instill in the kids
8. The Priest when he asks me to be do the one thing he needs me to do most for him — which in his words is to “Be brutally honest and totally unmerciful” when talking to him about what I see, hear, and think of the parish and the school. And yes, after the mass he asked what I thought and I promptly told him
9. The 8th graders who are saying things like: “instead of just doing things at mass I know think about why and what it means to do things at mass.” And that they are asking others to do the same.
10. 99% of the masses
11. the work kids are doing and the level of participation they are giving to the church

So yes, there are things I like. And I like it enough to actually give help to make it better since I have been asked.

While you may think a mass isn’t a show, on some level it is (and better be), especially on Christmas Eve. Do you want twice a year attendees leaving wanting to come back or so you want them walking out saying: “Well there’s an hour of my life I’ll never get back.” And for those who are questioning their faith or unchurched but looking it certainly is a competition.

So is this the same priest you were unhappy with because he put you in an adversarial position with the DRE? As I remember, you weren’t so brutally honest with him about that.

Is this the same priest that you felt “snubbed” you because he didn’t acknowledge your contributions specifically?

Why didn’t you mention in your original post that you spoke to the priest about the Mass? That seems to be a key factor that was convienently left out.

Just because the homily didn’t “speak” to you, doesn’t mean it didn’t speak to someone else. Especially those that may only be there because it is Christmas.

I’m sorry, but most of your posts seem to be directed at picking things apart, and trying to call attention to yourself.

Lastly, the Mass is not a performance, period. It is worship.

Try Matthew 6:5
"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.

 

[twopekinguys]

I felt it was too crowded to be at Mass on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. I did try to stay for both for the entire duration, but I just couldn’t do it. I wouldn’t have cared about the music or the other factors but it was too crowded for me.
I’ve seen great, and not so great Masses if one was rating them on a scale of some kind. That’s to be expected I think. But, great or not if I were a catholic unless there were some abuses going on, I would still go. I’m sure Peter and Paul and the others gave some lousy homilies themselves. Priests are human.

I know what you mean about the crowds. I have a difficult time with crowds too.

I try to get myself situated somewhere on the fringe so to speak, even if it means I have to stand up in the back.

As us Catholics are fond of saying, I just “offer it up”. My suffering in a crowd is minimal compared to what our Savior went through for us.

Keep trying, it does get a bit easier with time.

 

[Cat]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

It’s not a performance or a show.

The Mass is the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. Mass is the opportunity for us to peek into heaven even while we are still on earth and participate in the Sacrifice of Jesus. The Lord’s eternally efficacious sacrifice is actually present in our little church, even if the music or the homily is not “good” by human standards and even if the people chat and make noise.

My family and I did the music at one of the Vigil Christmas Masses. We spent more than four hours “rehearsing.” The girls kept joking about the “show” that we were putting on. But we all knew and were constantly aware that Mass IS NOT a show at all. The only reason our rehearsal lasted so long is that the girls travelled home from many miles away, and so we had to cram in all the practice the day before the Mass.

Our priest was very elderly and frail and could barely be heard or understood at the Mass that our family provided music for. But many of us in attendance were so happy to have him as our celebrant, as we know and honor his loving heart, his teaching ability in small group settings, and his years of service to the poor. Not all priests (or pastors in Protestant churches) are good speakers or preachers, but they have other gifts that they use in their pastorate. We need to remember these gifts and not stew over the gifts that the priest didn’t receive from the Lord. That’s the LORD’S choice, and we have no right to criticize His gifting of others.

 

[izoid]

I know what you mean about the crowds. I have a difficult time with crowds too.

I try to get myself situated somewhere on the fringe so to speak, even if it means I have to stand up in the back.

As us Catholics are fond of saying, I just “offer it up”. My suffering in a crowd is minimal compared to what our Savior went through for us.

Keep trying, it does get a bit easier with time.

I can say, as a recent revert, the crowds are encouraging to me. Every Sunday service is full to capacity at my parish, and we have a big sanctuary! It is great to see the strength of Catholicism in my community. Many of the protestants I attended in the past would pay money for such crowds.

 

[twopekinguys]

I can say, as a recent revert, the crowds are encouraging to me. Every Sunday service is full to capacity at my parish, and we have a big sanctuary! It is great to see the strength of Catholicism in my community. Many of the protestants I attended in the past would pay money for such crowds.

Don’t get me wrong, crowds in church is a good thing.

I however, have this really really huge personal space issue. I can get very claustrophobic in crowds.

We had huge crowds in our parish on Christmas Eve. We had the childrens Mass at 4 pm, and there were about 2000, another Mass at 7 pm, with about 1500, and then Midnight Mass with about 2000.

No doubt we had a great turnout, but I was on the aisle, near a large open space.

 

[Newbie2]

C&E’s. That’s what we call the twice-a-yearers. No doubt there were many at this particular mass just like in thousands of parishes across the country and the world.

Nobody singing? Everyone knows Catholics don’t sing. I assume that the OP was singing at full volume, making up for at least 5 of the Catholics who weren’t singing.

It’s disappointing when the mass doesn’t meet our “expectations”. Just think of how disappointed the Almighty must feel when we, outside of formal worship, fail to meet his.

Just a thought…

 

[twopekinguys]

C&E’s. That’s what we call the twice-a-yearers. No doubt there were many at this particular mass just like in thousands of parishes across the country and the world.

Nobody singing? Everyone knows Catholics don’t sing. I assume that the OP was singing at full volume, making up for at least 5 of the Catholics who weren’t singing.

It’s disappointing when the mass doesn’t meet our “expectations”. Just think of how disappointed the Almighty must feel when we, outside of formal worship, fail to meet his.

Just a thought…

Excellent thoughts at that!!

 

[kalt]

C&E’s. That’s what we call the twice-a-yearers. No doubt there were many at this particular mass just like in thousands of parishes across the country and the world.

Nobody singing? Everyone knows Catholics don’t sing. I assume that the OP was singing at full volume, making up for at least 5 of the Catholics who weren’t singing.

It’s disappointing when the mass doesn’t meet our “expectations”. Just think of how disappointed the Almighty must feel when we, outside of formal worship, fail to meet his.

Just a thought…

What about INSIDE formal worship?

Do you think the “C&E’s” attitude you have is lost on them? Do you think it’s possible that these people come on Xmas, thinking that this will be the first of many weekly visits, and then are disappointed once again by the attitude they find there, and conclude, not without reason, that the really good Catholics are the ones who only go twice a year?

I’m emarrassed at the people in my church who have this attitude when those who rarely come enter the church and are met with such arrogant attitudes. And anyone who thinks they’re hiding their feelings is only fooling himself. The attitude is blatant. I feel it, and I’m not one of the “C&E’s”. BTW, I think “C&E’s” is a very rude way to refer to people. It’s arrogant. Though I’m sure the OP will fall over herself (himself?) denying it, those who hold this attitude really do think that they’re in better favor with God. They think they’re “better” Catholics. Good luck to them - to those who think mean things about others at a Christmas Mass. Sheesh, if you can’t be charitable and kind during a Christmas or Easter Mass, is there any hope.

 

[izoid]

What about INSIDE formal worship?

Do you think the “C&E’s” attitude you have is lost on them? Do you think it’s possible that these people come on Xmas, thinking that this will be the first of many weekly visits, and then are disappointed once again by the attitude they find there, and conclude, not without reason, that the really good Catholics are the ones who only go twice a year?

I’m emarrassed at the people in my church who have this attitude when those who rarely come enter the church and are met with such arrogant attitudes. And anyone who thinks they’re hiding their feelings is only fooling himself. The attitude is blatant. I feel it, and I’m not one of the “C&E’s”. BTW, I think “C&E’s” is a very rude way to refer to people. It’s arrogant. Though I’m sure the OP will fall over herself (himself?) denying it, those who hold this attitude really do think that they’re in better favor with God. They think they’re “better” Catholics. Good luck to them - to those who think mean things about others at a Christmas Mass. Sheesh, if you can’t be charitable and kind during a Christmas or Easter Mass, is there any hope.

I think you are totally out of line and could use a dose of your own medicine. Is it OK to be arrogant and rude to your fellow Catholics because you don’t like what they said?

The poster never said ANYTHING regarding the attitude or motivation of anyone, t is you that has done that. I really think you need to take a long look at your response and determine where the hostility came from. I see nothing to warrant it in the post you responded to.

I was a pastor in a protestant church and I can assure you that many, many people inly come on Christmas and Easter. Our attendance would more than double on those 2 holidays. The majority of those people were doing it out of obligation and were never seen again. We never treated them poorly or had an arrogant attitude towards them but the truth is the truth.

BTW…we didn’t call them C & E er’s, we called them Creasters.

 

[kalt]

I think you are totally out of line and could use a dose of your own medicine. Is it OK to be arrogant and rude to your fellow Catholics because you don’t like what they said?

The poster never said ANYTHING regarding the attitude or motivation of anyone, t is you that has done that. I really think you need to take a long look at your response and determine where the hostility came from. I see nothing to warrant it in the post you responded to.

I was a pastor in a protestant church and I can assure you that many, many people inly come on Christmas and Easter. Our attendance would more than double on those 2 holidays. The majority of those people were doing it out of obligation and were never seen again. We never treated them poorly or had an arrogant attitude towards them but the truth is the truth.

BTW…we didn’t call them C & E er’s, we called them Creasters.

My response fits your post, too. I see the same attitude from you. I don’t blame those who choose not to be around your kind every week.

“Creasters”. Nice attitude. And you really believe that they don’t pick up on that. I feel it, and you’re only writing it!! Do you think you’re that good? I’ll nominate you for an Emmy.

 

[kalt]

I don’t have a problem with crowds (but I understand those who have trouble with crowds.), and I love it when the church is SRO on Xmas and Easter. Wonderful!
Who could be critical of an overfull church? And some even get mad when “my seat” is taken by a “Creaster”. What a terrible attitude!

Christmas, one of two times in the year that God’s church (not yours!) is full to overflowing, and people are critical. Maybe God enjoys seeing his lost sheep.

I think that’s at the root of this attitude. The “weeklys” are highly POed that God treats the “Creasters” as well as them, and even lets those lowly “Creasters” have “my seat” at the banquet.

God’s house is full to overflowing. Be happy!