Clunker mass

[Newbie2]

What about INSIDE formal worship?

Do you think the “C&E’s” attitude you have is lost on them? Do you think it’s possible that these people come on Xmas, thinking that this will be the first of many weekly visits, and then are disappointed once again by the attitude they find there, and conclude, not without reason, that the really good Catholics are the ones who only go twice a year?

I’m emarrassed at the people in my church who have this attitude when those who rarely come enter the church and are met with such arrogant attitudes. And anyone who thinks they’re hiding their feelings is only fooling himself. The attitude is blatant. I feel it, and I’m not one of the “C&E’s”. BTW, I think “C&E’s” is a very rude way to refer to people. It’s arrogant. Though I’m sure the OP will fall over herself (himself?) denying it, those who hold this attitude really do think that they’re in better favor with God. They think they’re “better” Catholics. Good luck to them - to those who think mean things about others at a Christmas Mass. Sheesh, if you can’t be charitable and kind during a Christmas or Easter Mass, is there any hope.

Please don’t misunderstand…I praise the Almighty for each and Every One of the C&Es, and hope and pray that they become a “regular”.

I perhaps used to have somewhat of the attitude of which you speak, but now I feel a bit of sorrow for those who attend mass only twice a year, and perhaps only out of a sense of obligation, duty or to meet some legalistic “I won’t go to hell if I go then” attitude. I think about what they’re missing, and wish I could share it with them.

Do I think I’m in better favor with God than those who attend mass 2x yearly? Absolutely not. Like others who might share my thoughts, by my regular attendance of mass and my perhaps more active participation in our faith, I realize how unworthy I am of the Almighty’s grace and mercy. I receive something when I go to mass, and I would like others not to miss out on what I am priviledged to enjoy.

Is there something wrong with this attitude? Please explain.

That being said, I do find some distraction in the habits of some “non-regulars” who seemingly do not have the courtesy to others around them. Of course there are regular mass attendees who show similar disrespect, but I’m sure it’s much more common in those who do not know how to act courteously and (at least somewhat) reverently during mass.

We attend my in-laws’ Parish on Christmas Eve. It’s downtown in a run-down neighborhood, but it’s one of these 100+ year old churches that are stunning. They have perhaps 150 or so regular parishioners, but the church is packed for Christmas.

Sitting right behind me was a woman who, intermittently during mass and constantly during the Eucharistic prayer was clicking and beeping and fiddling around with her video camera. At first, I thought she was texting on her cell phone because of all the beeping, and I was so close to asking her to stop. However, I thought that this was probably a big event for her, her semi-annual pilgramage to Church, and I refrained from saying anything.

The Lord must have been listening, though, as she stopped fiddling around a couple of minute later.

 

[AmericanJosiah]

.

Unfortunate that the experience was negative to you, especially at such a very important time…

MY experience in Catholicism is MOSTLY limited to one congregation (parish) - although I"ve celebrated Mass in maybe a dozen or so. The music at my parish was outstanding - very professional and obviously very well thought out and rehearsed. It’s understandable since the key musicains were paid professionals (many not Catholic). The professional quality of what they did was obvious. The excellent sound system (with a professional tech running it all) helped, too. Amazing what can be done if the congregation is big and rich enough…

The liturgy, too, was always VERY well done. I came to really embrace a service that is historical, biblical, ecumenical and well thought out, well done. It made me forever disappointed by the sloppiness of much of Protestant worship (Lutherans and Anglicans being the obvious exception).

But MY experience was the same as your at two points: The sermons were - rather consistently - short, poorly written, poorly delivered, and often without a discernable point. Not only so, but I was often dismayed by the CONSTANT focus on The Catholic Church. Catholic this, Catholic that. It was often one big commerical for The Catholic Church. The sermons were usually a big disappointment - and the usual Catholic “tuning out” during this time is understandable, which may be why it seems our priest spent do little time and effort preparing it. All this especially disappointed me because our priest was a wonderful, wonderful man - spiritual, intelligent, caring, informed - and I respected and loved him very much. All the people did. It’s just VERY little attention was given to the sermon - and it showed. Painfully.

The other thing that bothered me was the constant chatting and moving about. People coming and going, leaning over and talking. A lot of people just didn’t seem to be paying atttention or into this or engaged much at all - just “there.” My own congregation was worse than others I’ve experienced in this regard, it may well have been a large exception to the rule.

All in all, I loved Catholic worship. Still do. When I left Catholicism, it is what I missed most. Fortunately, I found it in Lutheranism (and with an EXCELLENT sermon!). My Lutheran church is tiny by comparison, with no professional musicans at all (all volunteers) and without a zillion dollar pipe organ (we have a really, really old electronic that Noah took off the ark). It’s not the very professional thing I liked in my Catholic parish, but it’s still well done, well thought out, historical, biblical, ecumenical.

My $0.01

Pax

• Josiah

.

 

[izoid]

My response fits your post, too. I see the same attitude from you. I don’t blame those who choose not to be around your kind every week.

“Creasters”. Nice attitude. And you really believe that they don’t pick up on that. I feel it, and you’re only writing it!! Do you think you’re that good? I’ll nominate you for an Emmy.

If you were to step back for a moment you will see that no one has an attitude. There was no attitude in this thread. You have made certain assumptions based on comments and those assumptions may or may not be correct, yet you persist as though they were.

No one here has claimed superiority in any way. Nothing that was posted would even remotely hint at it. It is you that is saying that our posts do not meet your satisfaction.

You see the same attitude from me? Did you read my post about being happy for all the people at Mass? Did you get the “vibe” that I actually am grateful and praise God for all the people?

I am sorry if something was said that upset you. It seems that you may be overly sensitive to this issue. I am sure that no one here meant any harm.

 

[Newbie2]

BTW…we didn’t call them C & E er’s, we called them Creasters.

Never heard that one.

 

[twopekinguys]

I don’t have a problem with crowds (but I understand those who have trouble with crowds.), and I love it when the church is SRO on Xmas and Easter. Wonderful!
Who could be critical of an overfull church? And some even get mad when “my seat” is taken by a “Creaster”. What a terrible attitude!

Christmas, one of two times in the year that God’s church (not yours!) is full to overflowing, and people are critical. Maybe God enjoys seeing his lost sheep.

I think that’s at the root of this attitude. The “weeklys” are highly POed that God treats the “Creasters” as well as them, and even lets those lowly “Creasters” have “my seat” at the banquet.

God’s house is full to overflowing. Be happy!

I think this whole thing about C & E’s is getting way overblown.

It is a simple fact that there are people who only attend church (catholic or not) at these times, for whatever reason. Some people think that is the only time they have to go. Some people go to appease their families, the list goes on and on.

I don’t think the term is meant to be derragatory, but more descriptive. How would you classify someone that only attends twice a year? How about a Summer Catholic? )Some are here, and some aren’t.)

My grandfather was a Presbyterian minister, and he was totally blind. Each Christmas, or Easter, he would ask one of us. “Is the front pew full of hats?” ( Back in the day when women wore hats to church).

I have never seen anyone be mean, rude, or mistreat anyone that may have been a C&E, and I doubt anyone in here can say they have seen it either.

I say, the more the merrier when it comes to attending Mass. As long as I can be near the edge of the crowd somehow.

As far as peoples behavior at Mass, that is not for me to judge, or be concerned about, Unless it is something blatant, that is affecting the Mass. I am there for our Lord, just like he is for me.

 

[rev_kevin]

The OP only gave a honest opinion on the experence at that mass. He went to other Catholics who were there and asked them what they though about it and they didn’t quite like it eather. Not trying to start a arguement or cause trouble here but too often I read here about the way the non-Catholics hold their services. How its not spiritual enough, the pastor preaches on a stage, Its nothing but a show being preformed, They don’t see or feel Jesus present, and so on. Now someone gives his opinion on a Catholic mass and its like how dare he say that. He went there looking for something wrong and so on. If the mass was bad, it was bad, why hide the fact.

 

[izoid]

The OP only gave a honest opinion on the experence at that mass. He went to other Catholics who were there and asked them what they though about it and they didn’t quite like it eather. Not trying to start a arguement or cause trouble here but too often I read here about the way the non-Catholics hold their services. How its not spiritual enough, the pastor preaches on a stage, Its nothing but a show being preformed, They don’t see or feel Jesus present, and so on. Now someone gives his opinion on a Catholic mass and its like how dare he say that. He went there looking for something wrong and so on. If the mass was bad, it was bad, why hide the fact.

THere is a little more to it than that, but I suspect you are aware of that. This poster has a history of criticizing all things Catholics so his experience is self ordained. He gave no specifics, only generalities.

Let me ask you, as a pastor do you get criticism about your services? I remember when I was on staff at a church it was a constant battle with unhappy people. Sermon was too long, too short, music is too loud or too quiet, not enough prayer, children make noise, and on and on. Far too many people attend services with a “what did I get out of it” instead of what can I give attitude.

 

[twopekinguys]

The OP only gave a honest opinion on the experence at that mass. He went to other Catholics who were there and asked them what they though about it and they didn’t quite like it eather. Not trying to start a arguement or cause trouble here but too often I read here about the way the non-Catholics hold their services. How its not spiritual enough, the pastor preaches on a stage, Its nothing but a show being preformed, They don’t see or feel Jesus present, and so on. Now someone gives his opinion on a Catholic mass and its like how dare he say that. He went there looking for something wrong and so on. If the mass was bad, it was bad, why hide the fact.

I see what you’re saying, and I agree somewhat.

What I am pointing out, is the OP’s consistant comments and threads picking things apart. One only has to look at his posting history to see that trend.

Also, if you look at his first two posts on this thread, he was looking for more of a performance, than worship.

You will also notice that in his OP, he did not mention that he spoke with the priest about the Mass, or the homily. However, when called on it, somehow, he did.

I’m sorry, I have problems with people that go out of their way to look for things to critisize.

 

[twopekinguys]

Back to my blind Presbyterian Minister Grandpa.

He would often receive notes in the collection plate from someone who couldn’t/wouldn’t approach him directly.

Some would say things like. “Don’t ever preach on this subject again”, “Who taught you how to preach”, etc. etc.

I absolutely LOVED how he would handle things like that.

He would take the note, keep it with him all week, and pray about it. More times than not, he would address it the next Sunday.

He would say things like. " We received this note in the offering last week, telling me not to preach on this, or not to do that. You realize I am blind right?. You do see my seeing eye dog right?" Then he would go on to explain that the sermon may not have spoken to them, but it may have spoken to someone who needed it.

Our Lord is there for everyone. His message may be for just one person in a crowd of thousands. We need to remember that.

Worship is just that. It is worship, not entertainment. It is Jesus calling each and every one of us. Even if he has to do it one soul at a time.

 

[RomanCath379]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

Well, maybe because the Lutherans are there for the music… My Catholic church was over spilling out the door and into the front of the street. The Mass was beautiful. I think just about every non-Catholic who has to attend church will find fault with something there because they really don’t understand the Catholic church at all. Jesus Christ left us the Mass, the Holy Eucharist and the Gospel…not necessarily in that order.

 

[rev_kevin]

I see what you’re saying, and I agree somewhat.

What I am pointing out, is the OP’s consistant comments and threads picking things apart. One only has to look at his posting history to see that trend.

Also, if you look at his first two posts on this thread, he was looking for more of a performance, than worship.

You will also notice that in his OP, he did not mention that he spoke with the priest about the Mass, or the homily. However, when called on it, somehow, he did.

I’m sorry, I have problems with people that go out of their way to look for things to critisize.

Oh I understand what you are saying. I don’t know his history of posting here. And I would like to say that I believe the Catholic midnight mass or the Christmas mass is beautiful.

 

[kalt]

If you were to step back for a moment you will see that no one has an attitude. There was no attitude in this thread. You have made certain assumptions based on comments and those assumptions may or may not be correct, yet you persist as though they were.

No one here has claimed superiority in any way. Nothing that was posted would even remotely hint at it. It is you that is saying that our posts do not meet your satisfaction.

You see the same attitude from me? Did you read my post about being happy for all the people at Mass? Did you get the “vibe” that I actually am grateful and praise God for all the people?

I am sorry if something was said that upset you. It seems that you may be overly sensitive to this issue. I am sure that no one here meant any harm.

Calling others “C&Es” and Creasters shows the attitude. If you don’t want others to think you have a negative attitude about them, don’t use the made-up derrogatory name, Ceasters. It’s like calling a someone a N and then saying you don’t mean anything negative by it.

 

[kalt]

Never heard that one.

I rest my case.

 

[kalt]

I don’t think the term is meant to be derragatory, but more descriptive. How would you classify someone that only attends twice a year? How about a Summer Catholic? )Some are here, and some aren’t.

How about calling them Catholics

 

[kalt]

The OP only gave a honest opinion on the experence at that mass. He went to other Catholics who were there and asked them what they though about it and they didn’t quite like it eather. Not trying to start a arguement or cause trouble here but too often I read here about the way the non-Catholics hold their services. How its not spiritual enough, the pastor preaches on a stage, Its nothing but a show being preformed, They don’t see or feel Jesus present, and so on. Now someone gives his opinion on a Catholic mass and its like how dare he say that. He went there looking for something wrong and so on. If the mass was bad, it was bad, why hide the fact.

Unlike in some denominations, the Catholic Mass (look that up for a definition of what it really means) is not about a show, because it’s not merely a symbol. The OP was looking for a Hollywood production, apparently. That might be common in non-Catholic Christian circles, but Catholics don’t see the Mass as entertainment. We don’t elect priests as some denominations do, and let them go if their “sermons” don’t get the crowd fired up.

It’s funny that a non-Catholic complains that the Catholic Mass, with all the “bells and smells” isn’t showy enough, when the opposite is the more common complaint. But what goes on at a Catholic Mass is about worship. We don’t ring bells because they sound pretty or use incense because it smells nice, and certainly not because they make a wizbang show.

 

[kalt]

THere is a little more to it than that, but I suspect you are aware of that. This poster has a history of criticizing all things Catholics so his experience is self ordained. He gave no specifics, only generalities.

Let me ask you, as a pastor do you get criticism about your services? I remember when I was on staff at a church it was a constant battle with unhappy people. Sermon was too long, too short, music is too loud or too quiet, not enough prayer, children make noise, and on and on. Far too many people attend services with a “what did I get out of it” instead of what can I give attitude.

I agree.

I should have combined all of the above response. Sorry for flooding the board.

 

[izoid]

Calling others “C&Es” and Creasters shows the attitude. If you don’t want others to think you have a negative attitude about them, don’t use the made-up derrogatory name, Ceasters. It’s like calling a someone a N and then saying you don’t mean anything negative by it.

I understand your point of view. It was never my intention to be derogatory. I am sorry it offended you.

 

[Newbie2]

twopekinguys;6095644:

I don’t think the term is meant to be derragatory, but more descriptive. How would you classify someone that only attends twice a year? How about a Summer Catholic? )Some are here, and some aren’t.

How about calling them Catholics

.

Then how would you differentiate them from Catholics that attend mass regularly? By height? (See Caddyshack?

The point is that there are Catholics that attend mass more regularly than others, regardless of what they are called. Sorry if you take offense at the terms C&Es or Creasters. “Creasters” is funny. Combining two words into one can be funny. Brangelina. It’s funny. I get that you don’t “get it”. That’s OK. Not everyone has the same sense of humor.

But please do not make the error of claiming that the use of these terms is always meant in a deragatory manner.

 

[rev_kevin]

Unlike in some denominations, the Catholic Mass (look that up for a definition of what it really means) is not about a show, because it’s not merely a symbol. The OP was looking for a Hollywood production, apparently. That might be common in non-Catholic Christian circles, but Catholics don’t see the Mass as entertainment. We don’t elect priests as some denominations do, and let them go if their “sermons” don’t get the crowd fired up.

It’s funny that a non-Catholic complains that the Catholic Mass, with all the “bells and smells” isn’t showy enough, when the opposite is the more common complaint. But what goes on at a Catholic Mass is about worship. We don’t ring bells because they sound pretty or use incense because it smells nice, and certainly not because they make a wizbang show.

read post 31 I know what the Catholic mass means, I don’t have to look it up. But might I say your attitude has something to desire. Please don’t go off on me. I did not say anything negative about the Catholic mass so please don’t do it to me. See how you are telling me how bad the non-Catholic serves are, but in the same breath you don’t want the non-Catholics to say anything negative about the Catholic mass. I don’t get it. With that said God Bless.

 

[kalt]

kalt;6096000:

twopekinguys;6095644:

I don’t think the term is meant to be derragatory, but more descriptive. How would you classify someone that only attends twice a year? How about a Summer Catholic? )Some are here, and some aren’t.

Then how would you differentiate them from Catholics that attend mass regularly? By height? (See Caddyshack?

The point is that there are Catholics that attend mass more regularly than others, regardless of what they are called. Sorry if you take offense at the terms C&Es or Creasters. “Creasters” is funny. Combining two words into one can be funny. Brangelina. It’s funny. I get that you don’t “get it”. That’s OK. Not everyone has the same sense of humor.

But please do not make the error of claiming that the use of these terms is always meant in a deragatory manner.

Why do you have to differentiate? Why talk about them at all, since it’s really none of your business how often they go to church?