Clunker mass

[izoid]

Unlike in some denominations, the Catholic Mass (look that up for a definition of what it really means) is not about a show, because it’s not merely a symbol. The OP was looking for a Hollywood production, apparently. That might be common in non-Catholic Christian circles, but Catholics don’t see the Mass as entertainment. We don’t elect priests as some denominations do, and let them go if their “sermons” don’t get the crowd fired up.

It’s funny that a non-Catholic complains that the Catholic Mass, with all the “bells and smells” isn’t showy enough, when the opposite is the more common complaint. But what goes on at a Catholic Mass is about worship. We don’t ring bells because they sound pretty or use incense because it smells nice, and certainly not because they make a wizbang show.

I have to agree.

Since I left the protestant church I no longer see the flashing colored lights during the music, I don’t hear the pastor yelling at me, no more prancing about the stage, yelling amen from the congregation or applauding a point with approval.

I do see a solemn display of reverence. I see quiet, kneeling, community prayers, confession and partaking of Christ’s sacrifice. It does not have the same “feel good” air to it but it is certainly more reverent than many protestant services.

 

[kalt]

Unlike in some denominations, the Catholic Mass (look that up for a definition of what it really means) is not about a show, because it’s not merely a symbol. The OP was looking for a Hollywood production, apparently. That might be common in non-Catholic Christian circles, but Catholics don’t see the Mass as entertainment. We don’t elect priests as some denominations do, and let them go if their “sermons” don’t get the crowd fired up.

It’s funny that a non-Catholic complains that the Catholic Mass, with all the “bells and smells” isn’t showy enough, when the opposite is the more common complaint. But what goes on at a Catholic Mass is about worship. We don’t ring bells because they sound pretty or use incense because it smells nice, and certainly not because they make a wizbang show.

Maybe I wasn’t clear. My response was really about the OP’s post, not yours. And the “look that up” was for anyone who doesn’t really know what Mass means, which is a LOT of non-Catholics.

 

[kalt]

I understand your point of view. It was never my intention to be derogatory. I am sorry it offended you.

Not hearing someone say something, it’s easy to misunderstand intentions.

I’ve been at Xmas Eve Mass where people are openly rude toward others. If I hear the muttering about “Holiday Catholics” (the term used here), I’m sure the “Creasters” hear it. And who can blame them for keeping away from the Catholics who act like that? Even if they don’t say anything, their attitude is clear. The only reluctantly scoot down for the “Creaster” to enter the pew. They are annoyed when the “Creaster” doesn’t know how to follow the Mass, when exactly to stand or sit. I’ve seen it clearly, and I’m sure the “Creasters” aren’t blind, deaf, or insensitive to the vibes either.

Maybe if I use “Creasters” enough, those who think it’s amusing will see how derogatory it is and how arrogant it sounds.

Or maybe we should, from the perspective of the Creaster", use a rude name for those who attend weekly and have this attitude. Perhaps “TSUs” (The Suck Ups - they apparently believe their attendance will put them in good with the Big Boss, since they actually spend time and effort in comparing it to others’ attendance.), “TAOs” (The Arrogant Ones), or maybe “T-CAPs” (The Church’s Attendance Police) .

I like the last one. T-CAPS. Self-appointed, of course.

 

[Newbie2]

Newbie2;6096184:

kalt;6096000:

Why do you have to differentiate? Why talk about them at all, since it’s really none of your business how often they go to church?

It’s none of my business that my brothers and sisters are missing out on all that Christ is offering them through the sacraments?

If we use that logic, why should we be concerned at all if someone leaves the Catholic Church? If someone leaves the Christian faith altogether?

So you’re saying that I should cease my prayers that more people would decide to come to mass more regularly?

 

[kalt]

kalt;6096279:

Newbie2;6096184:

It’s none of my business that my brothers and sisters are missing out on all that Christ is offering them through the sacraments?

If we use that logic, why should we be concerned at all if someone leaves the Catholic Church? If someone leaves the Christian faith altogether?

So you’re saying that I should cease my prayers that more people would decide to come to mass more regularly?

Yeah, OK. I’m sure you pray very often for them - right after you laugh and call them Creasters.

Stop thinking of them as Creasters and you’ll be a long way toward really caring for them.

 

[izoid]

Not hearing someone say something, it’s easy to misunderstand intentions.

I’ve been at Xmas Eve Mass where people are openly rude toward others. If I hear the muttering about “Holiday Catholics” (the term used here), I’m sure the “Creasters” hear it. And who can blame them for keeping away from the Catholics who act like that? Even if they don’t say anything, their attitude is clear. The only reluctantly scoot down for the “Creaster” to enter the pew. They are annoyed when the “Creaster” doesn’t know how to follow the Mass, when exactly to stand or sit. I’ve seen it clearly, and I’m sure the “Creasters” aren’t blind, deaf, or insensitive to the vibes either.

Maybe if I use “Creasters” enough, those who think it’s amusing will see how derogatory it is and how arrogant it sounds.

Or maybe we should, from the perspective of the Creaster", use a rude name for those who attend weekly and have this attitude. Perhaps “TSUs” (The Suck Ups - they apparently believe their attendance will put them in good with the Big Boss, since they actually spend time and effort in comparing it to others’ attendance.), “TAOs” (The Arrogant Ones), or maybe “T-CAPs” (The Church’s Attendance Police) .

I like the last one. T-CAPS. Self-appointed, of course.

I think there is a huge difference between the term creaster, a combination of Christmas and Easter, and those that you are using. Your acronyms are develop simply to insult, the term creaster is not. While you take offense to it, it is not something that was meant to be outright offensive. In fact, we were on the lookout for these folks so we could go out of our way to welcome them and make them feel at home.

 

[izoid]

Newbie2;6096369:

kalt;6096279:

Yeah, OK. I’m sure you pray very often for them - right after you laugh and call them Creasters.

Stop thinking of them as Creasters and you’ll be a long way toward really caring for them.

I think we can care for them even more when we realize their true spiritual state. Calling them Creater’s does not mean we disapprove or dislike them. It is simply a way of identifying them and being aware of their presence. I for one am glad that they are in church and I am always encouraged by the overflow crowds at Christmas and Easter.

 

[ccolley]

Is there anything I like?

1. The teachers
2. The principal
3. The kids
4. The parents
5. The DRE was wonderfully sweet and kind but was driven out because of some personal decisions. She really did know her stuff
6. The ability of the people to come together for a good cause
7. The coaches and the things they instill in the kids
8. The Priest when he asks me to be do the one thing he needs me to do most for him — which in his words is to “Be brutally honest and totally unmerciful” when talking to him about what I see, hear, and think of the parish and the school. And yes, after the mass he asked what I thought and I promptly told him
9. The 8th graders who are saying things like: “instead of just doing things at mass I know think about why and what it means to do things at mass.” And that they are asking others to do the same.
10. 99% of the masses
11. the work kids are doing and the level of participation they are giving to the church

So yes, there are things I like. And I like it enough to actually give help to make it better since I have been asked.

While you may think a mass isn’t a show, on some level it is (and better be), especially on Christmas Eve. Do you want twice a year attendees leaving wanting to come back or so you want them walking out saying: “Well there’s an hour of my life I’ll never get back.” And for those who are questioning their faith or unchurched but looking it certainly is a competition.

I am a convert. Catholicism does not rise and fall on how many people we can pack in a church. If someone is only coming on Easter and Christmas they are not likely to be swayed by a homily even if it was the most powerful one ever given. Protestants always emphasize the Homily over the Eucharist. But the source and summit of our faith is NOT the preaching…it is the Eucharist…

If you believed in the Real Presence the way Catholics do then you would wish they could skip the homily entirely and just get to the real reason why we are there…not to hear a good sermon, but to be fed by Christ himself with Christ himself…Christ, who came as a little baby and opened his arms to be stretched out on the Cross…I am sorry that you felt like it was wasted time…perhaps you weren’t paying attention.
CC
[SIGN]I love my Papa![/SIGN]

 

[yellowbird]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

Did you have a nice warm cozy spot to sit? Was there electricity that provided light? Did it smell ok or did it smell like animals and straw? As you sat there, was a King plotting to have you killed?

If not, be thankful. You were better off than Jesus on His first Christmas.

 

[kalt]

kalt;6096393:

Newbie2;6096369:

I think we can care for them even more when we realize their true spiritual state

. Calling them Creater’s does not mean we disapprove or dislike them. It is simply a way of identifying them and being aware of their presence. I for one am glad that they are in church and I am always encouraged by the overflow crowds at Christmas and Easter.

And the truth is finally admitted, which is that you think your spiritual state is much better than theirs, which is what I said in the first place and you denied.

Arrogance.

 

[GraceDK]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

Dear brother in Jesus.
It beats me… really, Catholics can’t sing. It seems to be every where the same But we have so many other talents;-)

You might like to hear I found my self in a Lutheran Church this Christmas eve. It was probably the best Christmas service I’ve ever experienced. Year after year I go home from Church wondering why the priests or pastors don’t use this once in a year chance to really PREACH the Gospel. This time I was not disappointed at all. It was a powerful and wonderful sermon indeed. God bless that dear pastor. What a delight it was.

Merry Christmas to you and your family

 

[kalt]

I think there is a huge difference between the term creaster, a combination of Christmas and Easter, and those that you are using. Your acronyms are develop simply to insult, the term creaster is not. While you take offense to it, it is not something that was meant to be outright offensive. In fact, we were on the lookout for these folks so we could go out of our way to welcome them and make them feel at home.

I disagree–on the origin and reason the terms were developed. If you weren’t the one who coined the terms, I’m not sure why you’re saying they aren’t meant to be derogatory. I accept that you don’t intend to be mean when you use them, but I know they weren’t coined as terms of endearment.

From the Urban Dictionary. As you can see, it’s not being used kindly.

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=creaster

 

[izoid]

I disagree–on the origin and reason the terms were developed. If you weren’t the one who coined the terms, I’m not sure why you’re saying they aren’t meant to be derogatory. I accept that you don’t intend to be mean when you use them, but I know they weren’t coined as terms of endearment.

From the Urban Dictionary. As you can see, it’s not being used kindly.

urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=creaster

My understanding is much more in line with #1.

I pray that the parking lot is full and the sanctuary overflowing EVERY Sunday, not just Christmas and Easter…

 

[Yerusalyim]

I went to the 10 AM mass at my parish. The homily was on Health Care Reform…The priest made the point that he thought there was “no room in the inn” because Mary and Joseph submitted to the authority of the Romans and obeyed the decree to take part in the census. Then he somehow took the angle about obey government…and that it’s getting harder to do because the current “health care reform” just passed by the senate would allow taxpayer dollars to be used for abortion…and then told us to contact Washington. I disagreed about the no room in the inn bit…agreed with the rest…but was sort of surprised that this was the Christmas message.

As to the singing…HORRENDOUS as always. The choir/music director keeps coming up with unusual versions songs or completely new ones that the Parish doesn’t know. It’s been my experience that when you stick to the classics…O Come O Come Emmanuel…Adeste Fidelis…that the Parish sings along in good voice. Also, during the sung prayers such as the Gloria and Holy Holy Holy that if you stick with the formats that have been popular for the last 25 years they are sung well…but if you get inventive…such as singing Holy Holy Holy with the same tune as O Come O Come Emmanuel people don’t sing.

On the other hand the priest sung the mass yesterday morning and was in good voice.

 

[Newbie2]

izoid;6096418:

kalt;6096393:

And the truth is finally admitted, which is that you think your spiritual state is much better than theirs, which is what I said in the first place and you denied.

Arrogance.

EXCUSE ME. Post #50 is not my quote. Please, kalt, if you’re going to slam me for what I write, at least get it right who wrote what. Do me the courtesy of not attributing quotes to me, and dittos for everyone else’s posts.

There is nowhere in any of my posts where I claim or otherwise imply anything about my own spiritual state or any one else’s in comparison.

 

[Newbie2]

Look, kalt, we all know that you don’t like the use of these terms. However, please do not presume to know the hearts or minds of people, like me, that use them in a manner not intending to offend.

In addition, I’d ask you to consider that most if not all of us here would rather see our Parishes overfilled EVERY WEEK of the year. Personally, it would be my goal that Joe Average, regardless of his religious or denominational affiliation, would use the term “Mega-Church” to refer to Catholic parishes, because we have to build or expand them to be huge enough to accomodate all the parishioners.

I hope you can appreciate the difference in “Pharisee-icly” putting oneself above our fellow Christians (which I’ve seen no evidence of in this thread) and lamenting that every week the ushers aren’t going nuts trying to seat the throngs that usually only show up twice a year, but all of a sudden are coming every week.

Finally, I hope that you would be able to take someone at their word when they say that they’re praying for someone, instead of dismissing out of hand that which you know not about, their hearts and minds; I hope that you would take a more optimistic view of your fellow forumites.

 

[Bill_Pick]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

Most of them Cathloic are there once a year,so please try after they have a year to try to learn to play it may work

 

[kalt]

kalt;6096480:

izoid;6096418:

EXCUSE ME. Post #50 is not my quote. Please, kalt, if you’re going to slam me for what I write, at least get it right who wrote what. Do me the courtesy of not attributing quotes to me, and dittos for everyone else’s posts.

There is nowhere in any of my posts where I claim or otherwise imply anything about my own spiritual state or any one else’s in comparison.

I hit “quote” to reply, and I have no idea why it says that you posted that. If you look just above the shaded area, you’ll see that it correctly names the member I was replying to.

Now, in the interest of getting it right, read the response carefully and fully, and please don’t blame me for forum glitches. And please don’t stalk me in a private message just to say that same thing you said here.

FWIW, my name has been attached in the same way to posts I didn’t make. I have no idea what causes that. Perhaps you can ask the forum administrators to look into the problem. In the meantime, read more carefully and stay out of my in-box. You’re not making it easy for me to take you at your word about praying for the “Creasters”.

 

[JohnPaul64]

As I often do, I went with my wife to mass on Christmas Eve. Now, even as a non-Catholic I find something in nearly every, if not every mass that is inspiring, thought provoking, interesting, etc. Last night was the exception to the rule. People talked though a lot of the mass. The readings were butchered, the music was horrendous and the homily meandered to nowhere. Truly a clunker and on the one night where any clergy person and such has to be (for lack of a better term) on his/her game. Disappointing that it happened on Christmas Eve of all nights. Just to be sure if wasn’t just me, I asked my wife and some of our Catholic friends their thoughts. They were more harsh in their assessment than I was.

Also, why can’t 1,000 people sing a Christmas hymn above a whisper when at the local Lutheran Church I can hear the 200 people at Candlelight Service singing Joy to the World at the end of the service halfway down the street?

I have to laugh at this because my brother who goes to a Presbyterian church and a friend who goes to a non denominational christian church both commented to me on how there x mas services were just a musical show with very little sermon time. My friend said his preacher spoke for 5 minutes tops and the rest was a musical and my brothers comment was it was a lot of music and was way to much. So much that his churches services were at 6 pm and 8 pm and there was a log jam of traffic in the parking lot because the services clashed because the 6 PM was too long. They both indicated a desire for more readings and talk.

My churches 10 PM mass was nothing special and mass as usual. The church was beautiful and the homily and readings were great. I don’t care about entertainment just a good Homily and receiving the Eucharist. I’ll take the Catholic way

 

[kalt]

I have to laugh at this because my brother who goes to a Presbyterian church and a friend who goes to a non denominational christian church both commented to me on how there x mas services were just a musical show with very little sermon time. My friend said his preacher spoke for 5 minutes tops and the rest was a musical and my brothers comment was it was a lot of music and was way to much. So much that his churches services were at 6 pm and 8 pm and there was a log jam of traffic in the parking lot because the services clashed because the 6 PM was too long. They both indicated a desire for more readings and talk.

My churches 10 PM mass was nothing special and mass as usual. The church was beautiful and the homily and readings were great. I don’t care about entertainment just a good Homily and receiving the Eucharist. I’ll take the Catholic way

We have a Christmas concert before the early Mass on Christmas Eve. It’s separate from the Mass, so it’s not intrusive. There are a lot more people than usual, so the Communion song is much longer. Other than that, there isn’t a lot of extra music during the Mass.