Co dependent spouse

[Anglewannabe]

I remember in the 90s, the modern day psychology was always talking about co-depency. And it was usually geared towards a women who was married to an alcoholic and how that made her co-dependant. The majority of the discussion was about how alcoholics can be abusive spouses.

But I am just wondering, if a person is married to an alcoholic, and they are co-dependent, are they abusive as well? Not just to their spouse but the their kids, siblings, friends, or coworkers. And if yes, how is that abuse usually manifested

Angie

 

[Bruised_Reed]

Are you asking if a codependent person married to an alcoholic can be abusive, similar to the person who abuses alcohol?

 

[Irishmom2]

Co-dependency does not always include abuse, so I am a little confused about what your question is.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I too am confused. I read some of those old “co-dependent” books as I was in a co-dependent relationship with an alcoholic/ pill popper at the time. Are you saying that

a) just by being co-dependent, and acting co-dependent as portrayed in the books (enabling the person with the addiction, etc. ) with nothing additional, the co-dependent person is committing some type of abuse of their spouse, kids, friends, co-workers etc.

OR

b) that the co-dependent person, in addition to their co-dependent acts, is committing some separate kind of abuse like physically hitting, verbally abusing, or emotionally manipulating their spouse, kids, friends, co-workers, etc.

I would say in the case of (a), it’s possible that acting co-dependent could be abusive towards one’s children because co-dependent behavior often would put the person with the problem ahead of the children’s needs. It’s possible that enabling a dependent person’s problem could be seen as “abusing” them, but seems weak because the co-dependent partner usually has the intent of being helpful or maintaining the relationship, not harming the dependent person, although in the end the co-dependency is harmful to both parties involved. As for friends and co-workers, unless there’s some behavior as stated in (b) then co-dependency alone can be really annoying, but doesn’t constitute abuse because they can always just walk away; they aren’t like children who rely on the co-dependent person for their daily needs.

 

[ChurchSoldier]

I remember in the 90s, the modern day psychology was always talking about co-depency. And it was usually geared towards a women who was married to an alcoholic and how that made her co-dependant. The majority of the discussion was about how alcoholics can be abusive spouses.

But I am just wondering, if a person is married to an alcoholic, and they are co-dependent, are they abusive as well? Not just to their spouse but the their kids, siblings, friends, or coworkers. And if yes, how is that abuse usually manifested

Angie

www.adultchildren.org

To your question, not necessarily. There are a myriad of dynamics which can present themselves. Anger due to frustration of not being able to control the other person’s behavior is one possibility. There are many others too.

Inevitably to work out through the process the co-dependent needs to look at themselves and why they invited the dysfunction into their life. That will get into uncovering painful prior life experiences which the co-dependency is used as a tool to minimize.

For most people this is a difficult undertaking and they will work enough to minimize the presenting crisis, then resume their life in a way not too different than before (like divorcing the drinker to resolve the pain, then dating another one).

Good luck. You have been raised in prayer.

 

[Anglewannabe]

ok, perhaps I need to clarify my question. The only way I know how to do this is through and example.

Let’s say Alice is married to an alcoholic nameds Bob. Alice becomes co-dependant. Sally meets Alice and tries to become her friend. Sally senses something is not healthy in the friendship.

The question is ‘Is this because codependants abuse others who are not their spouse’?

Does that make more sense?

Angie

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It could be that Alice has a pattern of unhealthy interactions with people that led to her co-dependency with Bob, or that she just got so wrapped up in her unhealthy relationship with Bob that she is not capable of being a decent friend to someone else. For example, she might lie to Sally, cancel plans at the last minute because something came up with Bob, only want to talk to Sally about her own problems and have no interest in or sympathy or empathy for Sally’s life, constantly manipulate Sally into giving her money or doing favors for her, etc.

These things might not reach the level of “abuse” because it seems unlikely Sally is going to be getting so close to Alice that she wouldn’t just walk away when things started to really escalate. Abuse usually takes place between two people who have a really close relationship, like family members, romantic relationship, best friends etc. where the relationship is such that the victim can’t, or won’t, just walk away. Nevertheless, whether or not one calls it abuse, it’s toxic behavior and Sally should probably back off from the friendship if she senses something is amiss.

 

[Anglewannabe]

It could be that Alice has a pattern of unhealthy interactions with people that led to her co-dependency with Bob, or that she just got so wrapped up in her unhealthy relationship with Bob that she is not capable of being a decent friend to someone else. For example, she might lie to Sally, cancel plans at the last minute because something came up with Bob, only want to talk to Sally about her own problems and have no interest in or sympathy or empathy for Sally’s life, constantly manipulate Sally into giving her money or doing favors for her, etc. .

This is answering my question. What are some other examples Would the following be potentila behaviours Alice would show to Sally

-no matter how much Sally wants to solve her problems herself, Alice insist she knows best (when it is obvious Alice doesn’t have a clue)

• When someone hurts Sally feelings, Alice always insist that Sally misunderstood or needs to not take it personally
• Alice is always quick to have sympathetic manerism, but her words don’t matche

And what could other examples be?

Angie

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I don’t think you need to give a lot of examples - the mere fact that Sally is not comfortable in the friendship indicates that Sally needs to put some distance between her and Alice.

This doesn’t mean Alice is a horrible person (she might be or she might not be). What it does mean is Sally has to be careful to preserve her own mental health and well being and not waste herself on a toxic friend.

 

[EasterJoy]

This is answering my question. What are some other examples Would the following be potentila behaviours Alice would show to Sally

-no matter how much Sally wants to solve her problems herself, Alice insist she knows best (when it is obvious Alice doesn’t have a clue)

• When someone hurts Sally feelings, Alice always insist that Sally misunderstood or needs to not take it personally
• Alice is always quick to have sympathetic manerism, but her words don’t matche

And what could other examples be?

Angie

No.

Just as someone can be both a co-dependent and an alcoholic at the same time, someone can be both abusive and abused themselves. Someone who engages in covert bullying–that is, bullying and trying to be controlling while making a pretense that they are respecting appropriate boundaries–does not need to have a relationship with someone who is a bully of any kind, covert or otherwise. There doesn’t need to be a connection between the two.

That doesn’t mean that people don’t internalize toxic habits as OK and therefore give themselves permission to do to others as if it is OK because they have learned to accept the same treatment towards themselves. Of course that is possible. I only mean that this isn’t the necessary mechanism for creating toxicity in relationships. It is also possible for someone who has a difficult life to get to be very wound up in their own hurts and their own problems, ignoring the truth that other people have difficulties, too.

If you want to understand what the whole business of co-dependency is about, I’d go to your library and check out “The New Co-Dependency,” by Melody Beattie. It is her update of the classic “Co-Dependent No More,” and she tries to clarify things in the first book that tended to be misunderstood. Your library almost certainly has it.

What you are going to find is that Alice, if she is healthy, is not going to spend a lot of time dissecting Sally’s life when she makes judgments about how to respond to Sally’s actions. She is going to set her own appropriate boundaries and respond in appropriate ways for the plain lay of the relationship between herself and Alice without having to mind what is Alice’s business. Like the person getting her own oxygen mask on before attempting to help anyone else, she’s going to mind her own business, her own boundaries, and her own one-on-one relationship first, and allow Sally room to mind hers.

In the above example, Alice is going to learn not to turn to Sally when she is sorting out her emotional difficulties, because consulting with Alice has proven to be counter-productive. Since Alice is not entitled to be kept informed about Sally’s interior life, Sally does not need to give notice or make excuses for that. Sally might simply learn to ask herself, “Is saying this to Alice going to help anyone?” If the realistic answer is “no,” she ought to do the realistic thing and decide not to involve Alice. That is what I’d suggest Sally do.