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Fr_Ambrose
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I guess that the guestion is self explanatory and I hope that the Eastern Catholic members will explain to us what they believe. Thanks.
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Isa_Almisry
Guest
Not exactly. I am assuming Father that you mean “Do the Eastern…”
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Fr_Ambrose
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Oops!
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Orthodoc
Guest
From an Eastern Catholic under papal authority website -
Purgatory: Could you please explain the differences among Latin theology concerning the Dogma of Purgatory and that of the various Eastern Churches?
As a general rule, all Eastern Christians do not use the word “Purgatory.” This includes both Eastern Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians. The word “Purgatory” is specific to the Latin tradition, and carries some specific historical baggage that makes Eastern Christians uncomfortable.
In the Medieval West, many popular theologians defined Purgatory as a specific place, where people essentially sat around and suffered. Some theologians went so far as to imply that a literal fire burns those who suffer in Purgatory. It was also popular to tally periods of time that people spent in purgatory for various offences. It is worth noting that contemporary Roman Catholic theology has (thankfully) moved beyond this approach, to a more Patristic understanding of Purgatory.
In the Catholic understanding, only two points are necessary dogma concerning “purgatory”: 1) There is a place of transition/transformation for those en-route to Heaven, and 2) prayer is efficacious for the dead who are in this state.
The Eastern Orthodox and Eastern Catholic Churches agree with the Latin Church fully on both of these points. In practice, we routinely celebrate Divine Liturgies for the dead, and offer numerous prayers on their behalf. We would not do so if we did not agree with the above two dogmatic points.
But again, we do not use the word “Purgatory” for two reasons. First, it is a Latin word first used in the Medieval West, and we use Greek words to describe our theology. Second, the word “Purgatory” still carries specific Medieval baggage that we aren’t comfortable with.
It is noteworthy that my own Byzantine Catholic Church has never been required to use the word Purgatory. Our act of reunion with Rome, “The Treaty of Brest,” which was formally accepted by Pope Clement VIII, does not require us to accept the Western understanding of Purgatory.
Article V of the Treaty of Brest states “We shall not debate about purgatory…” implying that both sides can agree to disagree on the specifics of what the West calls “Purgatory.”
In the East, we tend to have a much more positive view of the transition from death to Heaven. Rather than “Purgatory,” we prefer to call it “the Final Theosis.” This refers to the process of deification, in which the remnants of our humans nature are transformed, and we come to share in the divine life of the Trinity. Rather than seeing this as a place to “sit and suffer,” the Eastern Fathers of the Church described the Final Theosis as being a journey. While this journey can entail hardships, there are also powerful glimpses of joy.
Interestingly, Mother Angelica has repeatedly expressed a very positive understanding of “Purgatory” being a joyful state, rather than a place of suffering. In some ways her description lines up well with the Eastern understanding of the Final Theosis.
Although we do not use the same words, Eastern Orthodox/Catholics and Latin Catholics do essentially believe the same thing on this important point.
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Orthodoc
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scapularkid8
Guest
Wow, I really like the Eastern approach to this concept…it’s interesting.
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Fr_Ambrose
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I see that someone has picked up Dragani’s little heresy of “Final Theosis.” Someone really should wise him up. 
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bobzills
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That’s funny because on the EWTN website is a copy of the work: READ ME OR RUE IT by Father Paul O’Sullivan. This book has the APPROVAL OF HIS EMINENCE THE CARDINAL PATRIARCH OF LISBON.
According to this work:
“People do not realize what Purgatory is. They have no conception of its
dreadful pains, and they have no idea of the long years that souls are
detained in these awful fires.”
“WHAT IS PURGATORY?
It is a prison of fire in which nearly all [saved] souls are plunged after
death and in which they suffer the intensest pain.”
ewtn.com/library/SPIRIT/READRUE.TXT
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tdgesq
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His fallible theological opinion is noted. Perhaps he should read the the twenty-fifth session of the Council of Trent.
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ASimpleSinner
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yes.
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Fr_Ambrose
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Are there any Eastern Catholics here who would like to explain their belief or non-belief in purgatory?
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Orthodoc
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Since, as stated, I got this from an esatern Catholic under papal authority website, it may have been Anthony Dragani himself who originally wrote it.I see that someone has picked up Dragani’s little heresy of “Final Theosis.” Someone really should wise him up.
It’s like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
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mtr01
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Not really.
Interesting point from the article you cited:
“In the Catholic understanding, only two points are necessary dogma concerning “purgatory”: 1) There is a place of transition/transformation for those en-route to Heaven, and 2) prayer is efficacious for the dead who are in this state.”
Apart from the place/state issue that seems to be confused here, I believe this is the exact same thing I was stating on the other thread.
Not to mention it is a position that is essentially similar to Orthodox “private opinion” (i.e. held by a saint and promulgated by a council), as also demonstrated on the other thread.
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StMarkEofE
Guest
What this is telling me is that Roman Catholics have trouble understanding their churches teaching on Purgatory. The Eastern Christians seem to have their act together but there is enough disagreement to warrant a Papal declaration of just what Purgatory is as a final Roman Catholic solution.
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Stylteralmaldo
Guest
I won’t deny that there are Roman Catholics that don’t understand the Catholic Church’s stance on Purgatory. However, I’m sure there are plenty of Eastern Christians that don’t have there “act” together as well when it comes to the Catholic Church’s teaching on Purgatory.
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StMarkEofE
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Oh, Im also sure that there are many Eastern Christians unfamiliar with this place or state you call purgatory, but Im sure they dont lie awake at night worrying about it.
Is Purgatory a dogma of the RC church and if so, is it infallible?
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mtr01
Guest
This is true in Eastern Orthodoxy as well. The view ranges from very similar to the Catholic understanding (as seen in the other thread), to complete denial of that view including a denial of purification after bodily death, to things such as “toll houses”. However, from what I can understand, these are all “personal opinions”, since no ecumenical council has stated one way or another (therefore there is no reason to assume that one is better than another).
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Hesychios
Guest
You miss the (most important) point.
When people leave Purgatory, or leave the state that purgatory is, it is like having "graduated’ to heavenly bliss.
In eastern the concept one does not graduate into heaven from another supernatural state (unless they are somehow sprung from Hell).
We are created beings, and therefore not ever perfect. The deifiying process continues in the light of God indefinitely (or essentially…forever). The only perfection is God, and we should never cease to become more Godlike…and never finish.
Therefore there is no “Final Theosis”, no end to that process. What Dragani is (mistakenly) trying to associate is Heaven according to our understanding with the Latin construct of Purgatory. The whole idea makes no sense whatever.
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Stylteralmaldo
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Purgatory is dogma and infallible teaching (in other words, it is okay for the Christian on earth to pray for a soul that has passed from this life that is not in heaven, but not destined for hell). The details on what exactly is purgatory has not been dogmatically defined. There really is a lot of room for discussion regarding this between Christians. I personally believe this is why Eastern Catholics have found no problem joining the Catholic Church and that Purgatory isn’t really a hang up.
There may be linguistics that are uneasy to digest (i.e. what exactly is a purifying fire - it’s a “fire” but is it painful? is it literal? is it an expression of refining toward a more perfect union with God? - all these questions and more have not been dogmatically defined).
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StMarkEofE
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Well I guess it would be difficult in determining who one can pray for or not because if that person were destined for Hell prayers aint gonna work. In Eastern theology we still believe that those who are have a foretaste of Hell or on the cusp of hell can still be saved through prayers and fasting and most of all God’s infinit mercy. We seem to have more wiggle room than you do with this belief of Purgatory.
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Stylteralmaldo
Guest
I guess I don’t understand the Orthodox concept of praying for the dead if when you die one is already in heaven or hell.
I understand that some Eastern Orthodox (I have no idea if this is a minority opinion or generally accepted belief), pray for the salvation of souls as if they can help prevent someone from actually going to hell. Is this what you are saying too when you say they are “sprung from hell”? Just looking for some clarification.
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