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dontknow
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Thank you… I was trying to figure out a way to say something like this but was at a loss for words…
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Claire_from_DE
Guest
I’ve just re-read the book The Rite by Matt Baglio. It’s a very balanced book, not like the movie of the same name. One thing it points out is that before the priest is authorized by the bishop to do a rite of exorcism the person must be evaluated by a medical doctor and a mental health professional (one who is open to the idea that people can be influenced by evil spirits) to rule out the possibility that the problems are caused solely by physical or mental conditions.
My friend felt that there was an evil influence in her office at work. There was a lot of nastiness and friction among some of her co-workers. She would go in early with a spray bottle of holy water (I kid you not!) and spray the whole room and pray a deliverance prayer. She put blessed salt in the salt shaker. She put a blessed St. Benedict’s crucifix in her desk and wore one too. Things improved a lot. What can I say? It’s worth trying and isn’t confrontational.
I agree that if the troubled woman is a distraction to others or seems that she may be a danger to herself the problem should eventually be reported to the human resources department.
My friend felt that there was an evil influence in her office at work. There was a lot of nastiness and friction among some of her co-workers. She would go in early with a spray bottle of holy water (I kid you not!) and spray the whole room and pray a deliverance prayer. She put blessed salt in the salt shaker. She put a blessed St. Benedict’s crucifix in her desk and wore one too. Things improved a lot. What can I say? It’s worth trying and isn’t confrontational.
I agree that if the troubled woman is a distraction to others or seems that she may be a danger to herself the problem should eventually be reported to the human resources department.
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LordLove7_11_11
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Thanks for the advice, I will try that.
To the other repliers, I should have been more clear about the medication thing. I’m not saying to never medicate; I share the belief that medication is a blessing from God. In a case like this though, when someone is possibly being told to do harmful things to others and being led away from Christ, I think it is better to try to solve the problem spiritually than just muting the evil- evil that will remain, audible or not.
The reason I say that medicine can make someone less receptive to God is because it can, plain and simple. I have experience with this. I was afflicted by a demon, spirit, what have you. I heard a chanting in my head, plain as day, and was hallucinating to the point of seeing a pile of body parts on my roommate’s bed. Taking medication would have silenced it, but it also alters your conscience, how you think, etc, thus making you less in touch with God. I prayed for deliverance, sincere and repenting, then I felt a warmth come over me and felt the spirit leave me, never to return. I was blessed in this way, but many have to go through greater trials to get the evil to leave. People usually don’t know how to go about it and honestly don’t want go through getting permission from bishops and so on, so they see a doctor who is completely secular in all his diagnosis (99% are) and get prescribed pills to “numb the noise.”
To the person who replied that “I haven’t given any proof”… I hear the woman having conversations with someone who isn’t visible, literally non-stop. I’ve already told you how she screamed out in public. Yes, the workers are obviously in the wrong for talking about her, can we move on? Gossip is at every work place, sadly, but is not the issue this topic seeks to discuss.
Lastly, to the person talking about “the devil doesn’t want anyone to know he exists, he doesn’t just go around possessing people, etc”. First of all there is a difference between possession and oppression. Do some research about the people who are oppressed by the supernatural. It’s very common, and what’s more common is that they don’t realize it’s the devil/demons, so Satan is still covering up his existence. The devil is extremely cunning, and apparently he has you doubting his role in society, for he is present to everyone, temptation in varying degrees. How involved is evil in our thoughts, our emotions? Check out the Screw Tape Letters, by C.S. Lewis, for an idea of how it works… I’ve seen a girl completely possessed by a demon. Believing is up to you, but it is something I will never forget and could tell you all about it. Obviously someone having no experience with evil this visible would be inclined to downplay it’s role in every day life, but scripture tells us all about it, so you don’t have to see to believe if you have faith in the validity of the Word.
Again, thanks for the replies. Whether you agree with me or not, your (name removed by moderator)ut is appreciated, so God bless!
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horselvr
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Interesting thread. I wouldn’t know if this woman is mentally ill or posessed or whatever but I am saddened by adults in your office laughing at this poor woman.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Actually, it applies to oppression as well and no, it’s not as common as you think. If a person’s vision is being impaired by weird lights and colors, common sense would tell me that something’s gone fuzzy in their brain that they need to have that checked out. Not by a priest, by a doctor. (Particularly, one that can explain the harmful effects of tripping on acid.) If I start suffering from a lack of coordination and have weakening consciousness, that’s my body telling me what happens when I only have two hours of sleep for a night. Any strange sensation or vision I see is nothing other than my mind slipping between consciousness and dreaming. Believe me when I say I’ve already had such experiences during the late nights when I’m doing homework overtime.
Claiming that Satan is simply “covering up” will do nothing more than give people an excuse to blame their actions on him instead of taking responsibility and holding themselves accountable for whatever misdeeds they commit. Saying “Satan made me do it.” is already on every law enforcer’‘s list of Crooks’ and Criminals’ Common Excuses in case you didn’t nkow.
I possess a mind and hence, I am an individual. Therefore, I have a strong degree of autonomy over my actions and no entity (be it devil or angel) is entitled to it. My choice is mine and mine alone. The Screwtape Letters is but a book filled with humorous metaphors for Christian philosophy. I do not take a lot of what it says in the literal sense and neither should you.
Believe it or not, I’ve had a nasty encounter with a cursed doll that nearly killed my little sister. If you think I doubt the reality itself of supernatural occurrences, you better think again. That doesn’t mean I don’t take every single claim about demonic entities, that this or that person is possessed, or that certain books/games/music/art/symbols are satanic with a huge helping of salt.
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mdrummer5
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This times a billion.
I was actually just thinking about this on the way to work today. While I really appreciate your concern for another human being we need to realize that not every bad thing that happens is the direct result of the Devil. Mental illness is very real and it is not the work of Satan.
I’m not saying that it’s not possible to be some sort of spiritual affliction but we shouldn’t automatically jump to the conclusion that it’s Satan’s work. In fact I’d bet my next paycheck that at least 80% of similar instances are mental issues not spiritual ones. Possession is absolutely real, of that I have no doubt… but when compared to mental illness I’d say it’s very rare.
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silentstar
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I have had severe bipolar disorder a long time now. I agree with puzzleannie that you have to be really careful about respecting her privacy. If you want to consult with a religious person I would suggest someone who knows no one at work and where the conversation won’t get back to anyone. The only thing that is appropriate at work is talking to the HR dept. as annie said. Religion and work really should not mix. If she’s having conversations like this, why is HR not involved at this point?
bottom line - you can’t diagnose by the symptoms that seem to be there, a professional has to look at the whole picture which is mood disorder, paranoia, delusion, hallucination, and etc. - if present. IF she wants treatment.
good luck.
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LordLove7_11_11
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I agree about the HR dept., I’ve given it more thought and have been considering contacting them. What I do not agree with is that religion should not mix with work. I live my religion, it is going to be involved in everything. I believe nothing should be secular to a christian. Honestly, if there is something you’re involved in where you feel God is not welcome then you may need to check your fidelity.
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Lost_Wanderer
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Mixing religion with everything isn’t always a formula for moral virtue. The crime of committing evil in the name of religion came from your mindset.
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LordLove7_11_11
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Doing evil in the name of religion doesn’t involve religion. Everything you do should involve your religion. If you’re doing evil, or something that is not of your religion, then you’re not involving your religion, because it’s impossible. Follow?
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Lost_Wanderer
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No I don’t follow. Religion has been twisted many times to suit the agendas of imperialism, racism, and slavery. Hence, it can be involved. Look at the Albigensian crusade for an example.
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LordLove7_11_11
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When religion is twisted it ceases to be “religion.” Involving true Catholicism in everything is what a Catholic must do. Twisting the religion to suit an agenda is not involving the religion, but something else that you’ve created.
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Lost_Wanderer
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One the contrary. Twisting religion is simply changing the shape. You think involving religion requires said religion to be in its ‘true form’? No, that is only a set-up for a True Scotsman fallacy. Any idea, no matter how noble or good (such as religion) can still be used as a justification for evil. Mixing religion can be prerequisite to just that.
Remember Jesus’ owns words regarding the Sabbath? His enemies attempted to use the religion of His time to justify their accusation that He broke the Sabbath law by healing a sick person on the Sabbath.
In the same manner, when religion has become a reason to obstruct proper procedure with the mentally ill, it should cease involving itself.
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LordLove7_11_11
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I can see your point, but I was talking about involving my religion (Catholicism) in its ‘true form.’ Therefore, it could never do any harm, unless I misinterpret it, thus changing its shape as you put it.
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Lost_Wanderer
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And all I’m saying is that regardless of ‘true form’ or no, you are risking a twist. In fact, for all you know those who twist are the ones accusing you of twisting.
Don’t you see? It’s foolish recklessness to encourage people to involve their religion willy-nilly. It’s one reason why I carefully outline the place religion has in my life. It certainly has a high and important place, dictating my morals and my personal philosophy but I still recognize its limitations in that I don’t turn to it when seeking an answer to a pop quiz, playing a video game, washing the dishes, or constructing a character (be it a literary fictional one or an avatar in an MMORPG).
In that same manner, neither will I turn to a priest for medical advice unless that priest is also a qualified doctor or therapist.
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LordLove7_11_11
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Just to let you know that I have some idea of what I’m talking about, I’ll tell you that I am a theology major. Catholicism teaches us to involve Jesus in everything we do; this is what it means to “pray unceasingly.” When we’re washing the dishes and we let out that sigh of boredom, or maybe we’re irritable, etc… anything negative… we can simply say the holy name of “Jesus,” and offer up our distress to Him as a sacrifice in union with His Passion.
Let’s say we’re washing the dishes and there is nothing negative attached, we’re completely happy with it in every way. We can then say the holy name of “Jesus” as a prayer of thanksgiving for our peace, or just to show that we’re doing our duty as a human being and being responsible out love for Him, because He taught us to be this way through His teachings and the apostles.
If we do this, then our whole life becomes a sacrifice and we pray unceasingly. You don’t have to say “Jesus” like I suggested, but it’s a great way to do it. I strongly recommend reading “The Wonders of the Holy Name,” a booklet by Fr. Paul O’Sullivan. You can read it here: olrl.org/pray/wonders.shtml
As far as involving Jesus in playing a video game, I wouldn’t say pray for help beating the game or passing a stage (obviously!), but you should never be so distracted by something that Christ isn’t any where to be found in your thoughts.
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bre
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Lord, hear our prayer
Amen
Amen
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Lost_Wanderer
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Well I’ve had enough experience severing my emotions (positive or negative) when they obstruct me in any work be it studying the mechanics of language, doing my job, doing my chores, and among other things I could do in a surprisingly quick and automatic way so long as I had kept anything sentimental out of the way.
Please don’t fall into the illusion that man cannot work without feeling. Without feeling of either boredom or joy and simply focus on the task at hand, there would be no need for spiritual advice (advice better of suggested for more personal things). Man can turn himself into a machine and that is not necessarily a bad thing if the task at hand requires the discipline of a machine.
In the same manner with your situation, you would indeed do better to think more mechanically and refer the situation to a doctor, not a priest. This is just in the same manner a computer program would recommend an anti-virus in case there is a problem with the system. It doesn’t recommend holy water. What is wrong with your co-worker is none of your business and you should best focus on your own work. Whatever her religious orientation, it is between her and God alone. There is and has never been no room for middle-men in such a relationship.
Not that I entirely disagree but that is a subject for another thread.
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silentstar
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Have you decided whether or not you will approach this woman or the HR department and what you will say?
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LordLove7_11_11
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Your signature says that you are a learning Catholic, so I would assume you would be more interested in following what the Church teaches, as opposed to living by your own ideas and conclusions about life. Nothing is secular. I would “indeed do better” to follow the Church and learn from all her wisdom, and not exclude Christ from anything in life. Ignoring people’s problems and letting them deal on their own isn’t loving thy neighbor. Religion operates in a community - no ones religious orientation is between them and God alone. There is no room for a middle-man?? What were the apostles, what are priests, what is the laity, and what was Jesus? What is Mary? The saints, Pope, angels… Shall I go on? Looks like there are many “middle-men.”
Basically you’re speaking with authority you don’t have. You’re giving advice based on your personal opinion, and that opinion so happens to be right in line with what today’s culture would have us believe. It is “sacrilegious” in today’s society to combine God with school, psychology, etc. These arguments against God may sound logical and work well for this world, but unfortunately they will do those who use them no good in the next!
There is no need to point out that this is off topic. I started this thread and have been speaking to you directly for the last few posts now, about involving religion/Catholicism/Christ in every aspect our lives, not about my co-worker. If this makes you uncomfortable or you wish not to respond then fine, but no need to ignore what I’ve said (out of love for you, by the way) and change the subject.
That being said, I prescribe you a heavy dose of Fr. John Corapi. Look up his conversion story video and go from there. He comes on EWTN 2 or 3 times a week. The man changed my life, and I bet would change yours too. Make some time, pray, and give it a chance.
PS- Pride is the root of all sin; Humility defeats all sin. I am not interested in arguing for sake of it. If you find that you are at odds with the Church’s teachings then you may want to think about where you stand with your faith. Read the Bible. Pray the Rosary for wisdom. Print out the mysteries and read/meditate on them while you say the Hail Marys. You “should best” take this advice…
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