Co-workers mock Our Lady

[mozart-250]

Excuse me Mystic Warrior… I don’t think that portraying a snobby superiority attitude is going to win you friends and influence people. You don’t know me from Adam… it would probably be wise to have more than 35 posts under your belt if you are going to give scathing answers to people you don’t know. I never said I was without sin… just that I wouldn’t want to be judged on the sin of disrespecting our heavenly mother.

I dunno but I have more than 35 posts and I was kind of offended by this one…

I’m becoming more and more convinced that Protestants have the spirit of anti-Christ. May Jesus have mercy on them

Oh well, all this does is just further convince me that your denomination is nothing special (like you claim to be) and that y’all are just as messed up as we are.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Excuse me Mystic Warrior… I don’t think that portraying a snobby superiority attitude is going to win you friends and influence people. You don’t know me from Adam… it would probably be wise to have more than 35 posts under your belt if you are going to give scathing answers to people you don’t know. I never said I was without sin… just that I wouldn’t want to be judged on the sin of disrespecting our heavenly mother.

It’s not snobby to reprove you for speaking of someone else’s judgement at judgement day. No sin is greater than any other. It’s all missing the mark and going against God’s will. Their sin of “mocking Mother Mary” is no worse than my sin of lying or your sin of “X”.

It doesn’t matter how many posts one has. I don’t need to have 14,000 to express my opinion. And you don’t know those people who supposedly said those things or their heart. It doesn’t feel good, does it? Except you had a chance to defend yourself and they don’t.

MW

 

[BeProf]

I’m a kid who was raised Fundamental Baptist and wound up attending Bob Jones University. I’m a committed Evangelical Christian of exactly the type that many of you probably have nightmares about. I don’t think that Catholics are non-Christians, but I have serious deep disagreements with Catholic theology.

That having been said, I love Mary and not just because she’s Jesus’ momma. I don’t pray to her, but I love her like a member of my own family. Mary is the best real living breathing example of godly womanhood that we have. In those rare instances when the girls in our youth group ask for an example of godly womanhood from this “old” sound guy… I point them to Luke 1 instead of Proverbs 31. Here was a woman who was asked to bear extraordinary hardship… hardship that would break most if not all of us… but, by the grace of God, she bore it… willingly and without complaints. She had questions, sure, but she asked them and accepted the Lord gave her without any hand wringing or hesitation. That’s a woman worth emulating and that’s a woman worthy of great respect and honor.

I don’t think your co-workers meant any disrespect to you or her. I think they just haven’t really thought it through. The don’t know her like we know her… like Jesus knows her. Pray for them, not because God’ll “get 'em” but because they’re really missing out on someone special.

 

[ralphinal]

I did not “read” the same thing into the comment that you “heard.” I saw it more as a crack against Catholicism than against the Blessed Mother. It was more mocking the way some of our churches are named than saying anything against her. That is just one Catholics take.

Rarely, I hear people saying things against the Blessed Mother that are offensive. These comments are usually more explicit than this. Most of the time, it is not from Protestants but uncooth atheists.

 

[Ceil-1]

To answer Leopard, it is the worst comment I have heard. Usually, they talk about the Catholic patients (I work for a home health agency), with doubt about their salvation in their tone, and looks such as rolling their eyes at things like the last rites.

Once, the chaplain referred to a particularly devout and loving Catholic lady with obvious affection. He phrased his comment about her spiritual well-being as, “well, she just wanted to go to
be with her Lord”. I remember thinking to myself, well that’s your Lord too. It is subtle, but it is loud and clear. It was impossible to doubt her salvation based on her obvious holiness. But it was her Lord, not his.

Some of you may think I am overreacting. But, the comment was measured to get a good laugh. I grew up in a heavily Protestant area where most “sins” are shunned, such as alcohol and gambling, but if it’s making fun of the Catholic Church, it’s fair game. Gossip and other subltle digs are okay, so long as it is couched in a rationalization or a “bless-her-heart” type of comment.

It hurts my feelings, the same way any of your feelings would be hurt if someone disrespected your mother, husband, wife, child.

I have decided to do a prayer of reparation for the conversion of these people. Mystic Warrior, that feeling of offense was a pang of guilt, and you know it. :nope:

 

[water]

It’s not snobby to reprove you for speaking of someone else’s judgement at judgement day. No sin is greater than any other. It’s all missing the mark and going against God’s will. Their sin of “mocking Mother Mary” is no worse than my sin of lying or your sin of “X”.

It doesn’t matter how many posts one has. I don’t need to have 14,000 to express my opinion. And you don’t know those people who supposedly said those things or their heart. It doesn’t feel good, does it? Except you had a chance to defend yourself and they don’t.

MW

All sins are not the same. Their effect on our souls are different.

 

[snowfly]

When they mock Mary they mock her Son, can anyone imagine that Jesus is pleased ?

 

[st_lucy]

I’m a kid who was raised Fundamental Baptist and wound up attending Bob Jones University. I’m a committed Evangelical Christian of exactly the type that many of you probably have nightmares about. I don’t think that Catholics are non-Christians, but I have serious deep disagreements with Catholic theology.

That having been said, I love Mary and not just because she’s Jesus’ momma. I don’t pray to her, but I love her like a member of my own family. Mary is the best real living breathing example of godly womanhood that we have. In those rare instances when the girls in our youth group ask for an example of godly womanhood from this “old” sound guy… I point them to Luke 1 instead of Proverbs 31. Here was a woman who was asked to bear extraordinary hardship… hardship that would break most if not all of us… but, by the grace of God, she bore it… willingly and without complaints. She had questions, sure, but she asked them and accepted the Lord gave her without any hand wringing or hesitation. That’s a woman worth emulating and that’s a woman worthy of great respect and honor.

I don’t think your co-workers meant any disrespect to you or her. I think they just haven’t really thought it through. The don’t know her like we know her… like Jesus knows her. Pray for them, not because God’ll “get 'em” but because they’re really missing out on someone special.

Thank you for this post. This is always my thought as well. It just really breaks my heart to hear people talk about Mary in such a negitive way. I try to just say a pray for them.

 

[Indyann]

To answer Leopard, it is the worst comment I have heard. Usually, they talk about the Catholic patients (I work for a home health agency), with doubt about their salvation in their tone, and looks such as rolling their eyes at things like the last rites.

Once, the chaplain referred to a particularly devout and loving Catholic lady with obvious affection. He phrased his comment about her spiritual well-being as, “well, she just wanted to go to
be with her Lord”. I remember thinking to myself, well that’s your Lord too. It is subtle, but it is loud and clear. It was impossible to doubt her salvation based on her obvious holiness. But it was her Lord, not his.

Some of you may think I am overreacting. But, the comment was measured to get a good laugh. I grew up in a heavily Protestant area where most “sins” are shunned, such as alcohol and gambling, but if it’s making fun of the Catholic Church, it’s fair game. Gossip and other subltle digs are okay, so long as it is couched in a rationalization or a “bless-her-heart” type of comment.

It hurts my feelings, the same way any of your feelings would be hurt if someone disrespected your mother, husband, wife, child.

I have decided to do a prayer of reparation for the conversion of these people. Mystic Warrior, that feeling of offense was a pang of guilt, and you know it. :nope:

Ceil, we know how much it hurts us when someone makes a disparaging remark about our Church or the Mother of God. Can you just imagine how much it must hurt Christ and His Blessed Mother?

I have had that happen in my very own family, and it is just like a knife to the heart.

I feel nothing but pity for these people and will join you in prayer for their conversion and salvation.

 

[Mystic_Warrior]

Mystic Warrior, that feeling of offense was a pang of guilt, and you know it. :nope:

I don’t get it. What are you referring to?

Peace…

MW

 

[MH84]

To answer Leopard, it is the worst comment I have heard. Usually, they talk about the Catholic patients (I work for a home health agency), with doubt about their salvation in their tone, and looks such as rolling their eyes at things like the last rites.

Once, the chaplain referred to a particularly devout and loving Catholic lady with obvious affection. He phrased his comment about her spiritual well-being as, “well, she just wanted to go to
be with her Lord”. I remember thinking to myself, well that’s your Lord too. It is subtle, but it is loud and clear. It was impossible to doubt her salvation based on her obvious holiness. But it was her Lord, not his.

Some of you may think I am overreacting. But, the comment was measured to get a good laugh. I grew up in a heavily Protestant area where most “sins” are shunned, such as alcohol and gambling, but if it’s making fun of the Catholic Church, it’s fair game. Gossip and other subltle digs are okay, so long as it is couched in a rationalization or a “bless-her-heart” type of comment.

You know it never ceases to surprise me how much religion is talked about at the workplace (particularly what Ive heard on this forum). You know regarding the OP, I reckon a decent percentage, if not most of the people in that situation from another country such as mine, would not even understand the “humour” that was being said in the room. Its only in America where there is this Christian cold war existing between denominations.

Im going to be open here and say that for those bible Christians or “non-denominational” Christians (like the ones living in the bible belt) who are joking/making fun about/of the Catholic Church, I’ll have you know that people from other countries perceive you as being racist, backward, ignorant and fundamentalist in your thinking. Sorry to say this (sort of), but you are so caught up in yourselves that you are ignorant of the fact that the Catholic Church is truly global and founded on the Truth of God, and underneath this the intelligence of the Church Fathers and doctors guided by the Holy Spirit.

 

[BlestOne]

I’m a kid who was raised Fundamental Baptist and wound up attending Bob Jones University. I’m a committed Evangelical Christian of exactly the type that many of you probably have nightmares about. I don’t think that Catholics are non-Christians, but I have serious deep disagreements with Catholic theology.

That having been said, I love Mary and not just because she’s Jesus’ momma. I don’t pray to her, but I love her like a member of my own family. Mary is the best real living breathing example of godly womanhood that we have. In those rare instances when the girls in our youth group ask for an example of godly womanhood from this “old” sound guy… I point them to Luke 1 instead of Proverbs 31. Here was a woman who was asked to bear extraordinary hardship… hardship that would break most if not all of us… but, by the grace of God, she bore it… willingly and without complaints. She had questions, sure, but she asked them and accepted the Lord gave her without any hand wringing or hesitation. That’s a woman worth emulating and that’s a woman worthy of great respect and honor.

I don’t think your co-workers meant any disrespect to you or her. I think they just haven’t really thought it through. The don’t know her like we know her… like Jesus knows her. Pray for them, not because God’ll “get 'em” but because they’re really missing out on someone special.

BeProf… That is a beautiful post! No you aren’t the kind we Catholics have nightmares about at all… We love to share our momma! Mary is indeed our best example of Christian womanhood for all to see. It is obvious you understand that we don’t “worship” Mary but rather honor her as the one who said yes and the mother of our Savior… we love people like this!!! Welcome to the forums!!!

 

[heisenburg]

MH…

You hit something very interesting…

Though this is not directed at all protestants, I do find it interesting that most of the protestant understandings come not from protestant Europe, but from the USA between 1800-1900.

During this time period, there were three ‘Great Revivals’ Out of it came Pretrib Rapture, Dispensationalism, JW, Mormans, Pentecostalism, Anti-Trinitarian, Anti-Halloween, Anti-Christmas, hyper-my church is right your church is wrong mentality, the idea that we can understand the Scriptures without teachers, nondenominationalism, etc.

Prior to this, though protestantism was fractured, it was for more unified.

Today, what you find is that the Churches that embrace the theologies introduced in the 1800’s are surging, and those that existed prior to this are loosing members at a phenomenal rate.

Just something to think about. It is not an attack at protestantism, just a statement of history…

Don’t mean to derail… you may now continue with your regularly scheduled thread

In Christ

 

[Ceil-1]

My apologies, Mystic, I looked back over the posts and may have taken someone else’s comments for yours.

I would not agree with your proposition that all sins are the same, however, and it would seem St. Paul would agree with my position. I would quote you the verse, but it seems that quoted verses get pretty much ignored.

 

[justinthemartyr]

1 john 5:16-17

 

[Ceil-1]

I have been reading Characters of the Inquisition to help my son who is doing a paper on it. It surprises me that these heresies are nothing new. They are just in different forms.

For instance, the Manichees were dualists, that is they believed in two gods, one evil and one good. All created things were evil, particularly men, who came to be through the devil, I won’t go into sordid details. Somewhere in there, Christ saves mankind, but He wasn’t really crucified, died, etc. because he wasn’t really human.The Church and her sacraments were all some evil plot designed to keep every one cursed or whatever. They were very austere,devout and pious and had three lents a year. Yet, suicide and infanticide were part of their ritualism. They were fiercly evangelical, too. These people practically took over the regions where they settled and easily won over the uneducated and weak-minded. That is one sect of many, even more violent ones. What would have happened had the Church not fought this evil with all her might?

I believe Protestantism is an unhappy descendant of these heresies, and it is frightening how subtly it twists the truth just enough to make heaven that much harder to reach. Lord, help us.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

At a meeting this morning, a coworker mentioned that she had to call the church of "Old Lady of ________ " for a priest. Several snickers went around the room. She then stated, "Well my husband corrected me, it’s Our Lady of _______. They snickered again.

Now, many of these people brag about what Christians they are, etc. I chided them, mentioning that I didn’t think Jesus appreciated our disrespecting His mother like that, and they tried to stifle themselves, but, I was rather shocked.

Those of you who are not Catholic, what makes you think it is okay to mock and disrespect the mother of Jesus? Are you really “saved”, and do you have the Holy Spirit within you when you say things like this? I doubt your theology too, but I respect your sincerity and your traditions. It wouldn’t even cross my mind to criticize, much less mock, because I would be mocking the Holy Spirit.

Please explain to me how you think you can get away with being so derisive.

Where’s the derision ?​

Anyone can say one word, while meaning another - doing so is not derisive. When this happens, it can often be very amusing.

To speak of derision implies knowledge of intention to deride - merely to laugh is not itself derisive.

And in any case, even if it was certainly derision, Catholics are no position to complain, because Protestant beliefs & convictions are belittled on this & other Catholic sites all the time. The moral of that seems to be that Christians are lousy, no matter what Church they may belong to, whether they have Popes or presbyters over them. But that’s not news.

If we want sympathy from those whose religion is different from ours, we have to give it first. Expecting or wanting it from those whose convictions we trample on is a non-starter.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Mocking our Lady is insults Jesus Christ. How do you think a son would feel is someone mocks his mother?

But - how far is that kind of analogy justifiable ? Most sons are not infinitely gracious & infinitely merciful, & most are not God. So we can’t take for granted that what is true of a sinful, fallible, limited human being is as true,or is true in the same way, of someone Who is God.​

Besides, even non-Christians can forgive great injuries. If the BVM is bothered by something so trivial, she must be terribly self-obsessed. Don’t saints have more important matters to attend to, then whether they are universally admired ? (I’m assuming, for the sake of argument, that we can ascribe our emotions to God & the Blessed - in actual fact, I doubt very much we can do anything of the kind; in fact, I’m sure we can’t.)

Besides, people who are constantly on the watch for insults to them can be impossible to live with. If the BVM is like that, she is no Saint, but neurotic & very badly flawed. People like that are to be pitied - that does not make them any less a trial. I don’t believe for one moment that she is the morbidly over-sensitive & touchy neurotic that some Catholic thinking about her makes of her; in fact, I have no doubt she is the very last person to have the BVM in mind.

 

[xmydreamsfadex]

in my experience, the worst thing i ever heard about the Blessed Mother came in the form of a sordid joke from an atheist.

 

[bones_IV]

and many Catholics and many Pagans and many Muslims…

Dialogue will never get far with this kind of statement. And people are more turned off every day by these sentiments. Better to entice with honey than crush with condemnation.

Peace…

MW

Dialogue isn’t about making people “feel good”. Perhaps you ought to go to the doctor.