Coffee date

[Book_Worm]

I look at challenge as a fun kind of game, just to create a bit of mystery and romance. There is little romance in gushing feelings and laying your cards all on the table on the second date. He barely knows her.

From my personal experience, it was about 3 months before I took my wife out on a Saturday night. I think she is still a little miffed about that. Anyway, we have been married almost 10 years, have 2 kids, and she has stuck by me despite all the stupid and jerky stuff I did.

I think a guy who fails to show a little challenge - a little bit of an edge, is going to become very frustrated with dating.

OP, several women have told you that they don’t appreciate men who look at dating as a game in which they play a role and look mysterious. I think their advice on what women like and don’t like is likely to be more helpful than the contrary advice from a man.

For the record, I was introduced to my DH on a Wednesday and he asked me out for that Saturday and somehow managed to be where I was on Friday so we met “accidentally.” He was a rookie police officer and had to work two shifts for someone so he could get a Saturday night off. I was flattered by his interest in me and the effort he put forth to date me. Unless there was a good reason, like a work schedule, not taking someone out on Saturday night, the official Date Night, sends a message that the woman is not a priority to you, and that’s not a good feeling.

 

[CaliLobo]

OP, several women have told you that they don’t appreciate men who look at dating as a game in which they play a role and look mysterious. I think their advice on what women like and don’t like is likely to be more helpful than the contrary advice from a man.

For the record, I was introduced to my DH on a Wednesday and he asked me out for that Saturday and somehow managed to be where I was on Friday so we met “accidentally.” He was a rookie police officer and had to work two shifts for someone so he could get a Saturday night off. I was flattered by his interest in me and the effort he put forth to date me. Unless there was a good reason, like a work schedule, not taking someone out on Saturday night, the official Date Night, sends a message that the woman is not a priority to you, and that’s not a good feeling.

PatriceA:

Gotta agree. My husband called me as soon as he got home and left a message on my machine after our first meeting. We made plans to meet in two days, on a Tuesday for our second date. We were engaged within 5 months.

Don’t play these games about having to wait 2-3 days, not going out during the middle of the week, etc., etc.

~Jenn~:

Obligatory 2-3? Who makes up this junk? lol If you like her, you call her. If she likes you, you will not seem too eager. And you ask her out for whatever night works for the both of you. If that happens to be Thursday & not Saturday, then who gives a rat’s patootey?

Makes me glad I will never be part of the “dating world” ever again. LOL Also glad my husband & I didn’t listen to such nonsense when we were dating.

OP,
My advice is to listen to dating advice from men, not women. Listen to the gender that is trying to attract the women.

Dating advice from women is often: 1) What you want to hear but not the truth (because women avoid confrontation), 2) Comes from the logical brain but not the emotional brain (which is the part you need to attract), 3) Comes from the maternal instinct but not the lover’s instinct (which is the part you need to attract), and 4) Has no experience backing up the advice (unless they’re lesbian).

That is why women here appear offended by things like the 3-day rule and appearing as a challenge. But in reality, if you don’t appear as a challenge, women will friend-zone you, and consider you a great guy but have no idea why you don’t do it for them.

If you supplicate too much she will raise a red flag.

I guarantee you that following women’s advice to the letter will score you nothing. I know because I’ve tried it myself.

 

[Father_of_10]

If you really want to see if she is marriage material, ask her to come to mass with you on Sunday and find a nice Italian restaurant to take her out to afterwards for a late lunch early dinner.

This way you can find out if she is hostile to your practice of religion and if she is a practicing Catholic you might ring one up on the positive column of her “suitable man” ledger.

 

[underacloud]

OP,
My advice is to listen to dating advice from men, not women. Listen to the gender that is trying to attract the women.

OK then. I’m a man. Here is my advice from above:

Don’t play games. If you want to call her, just call her. Tell her you had a great time and would like to see her again.

If she likes you, she won’t mind how soon you call. If she thinks you called too soon, she’s probably not the one for you anyway. There’s no such thing as the “obligatory 2-3 days” IMO.

Dating advice from women is often: 1) What you want to hear but not the truth (because women avoid confrontation), 2) Comes from the logical brain but not the emotional brain (which is the part you need to attract), 3) Comes from the maternal instinct but not the lover’s instinct (which is the part you need to attract), and 4) Has no experience backing up the advice (unless they’re lesbian).

That is why women here appear offended by things like the 3-day rule and appearing as a challenge. But in reality, if you don’t appear as a challenge, women will friend-zone you, and consider you a great guy but have no idea why you don’t do it for them.

If you supplicate too much she will raise a red flag.

I guarantee you that following women’s advice to the letter will score you nothing. I know because I’ve tried it myself.

Some of the advice given is not from women who merely think they know how this whole dating thing works. It’s from women (and men such as me) who have direct experience in how it works and finding wonderful spouses without the need for challenge, games, obligatory 2-3 days no-call rules, etc. I’m sorry it hasn’t worked for you yet, but that merely means you haven’t met the right person yet.

 

[Groo]

One underrated aspect of being a Challenge is that it protects the man (and woman) from investing in a relationship that is not going to work.

For instance, calling back a day or two later than the average joe protects the guy from women who aren’t likely to be interested in a long term relationship. If, after a couple extra days she forgets she ever met you, then there probably isn’t enough of a spark to sustain a relationship. Better not to waste each other’s time.

Here’s an example from my experience… In my early days of dating, I always took women to very nice restaurants, paid them lots of compliments…etc. But later I wised up and started with an inexpensive coffee date instead.

So there was a young lady I met and asked her out. She was extremely attractive, seemed nice, and I wanted to get to know her better. When we met at the coffee shop she immediately offered to pay for her own drink. Well, at that point I knew that she wasn’t interested in a romantic way. We sat and talked a bit, and I made a friend. Total cost was a couple bucks and less than 30 minutes of my time. Nothing wrong with that!

Now suppose I had asked this same young lady out to a super-nice restaurant with entrees at >$30 a pop. Is she going to offer to pay her own way then? My experience says probably not. And going further, I might mistake her intentions and invite her out on multiple expensive dates after that - all paid for by me. Because don’t you know there are women out there (no one here, of course) that would allow a man to buy her dinner over and over and over again and have no real intention of a long term relationship.

Or worse than that, maybe behind that sweet exterior is a gold digger type women (again, I know no one here is like that). Maybe this woman is just looking for some rich guy who is eager to spend all his money on her.

I don’t presume to speak for Father_Of_10, but what he said above is a perfect example of what I call challenge. It’s testing her a bit to see if she is the type of woman you would really want to marry. It is not assuming she is miss wonderful, giving her first place on your social calendar by the second date, and treating her to what whatever her little heart desires when you barely know her name.

Also, I think it’s great that some men and women are able to find their spouses so naturally and easily (actually I’m a bit envious). Wasn’t so easy for me. I led with my heart and it got beaten up like a Mike Tyson punching bag. So I hope you will forgive me for shifting gears and taking a bit more measured, guarded approach than some of you have. I can’t speak for others, but I can say that my approach gave me the confidence that the woman I married truly loved and cared about me. And in a world where divorce and infidelity are rampant, even among Christians, I don’t think that’s such a bad thing.

 

[_Jenn]

OP,
My advice is to listen to dating advice from men, not women. Listen to the gender that is trying to attract the women.

Dating advice from women is often: 1) What you want to hear but not the truth (because women avoid confrontation), 2) Comes from the logical brain but not the emotional brain (which is the part you need to attract), 3) Comes from the maternal instinct but not the lover’s instinct (which is the part you need to attract), and 4) Has no experience backing up the advice (unless they’re lesbian).

That is why women here appear offended by things like the 3-day rule and appearing as a challenge. But in reality, if you don’t appear as a challenge, women will friend-zone you, and consider you a great guy but have no idea why you don’t do it for them.

If you supplicate too much she will raise a red flag.

I guarantee you that following women’s advice to the letter will score you nothing. I know because I’ve tried it myself.

On the flip side, I would say listening to both men & women (especially those who have been there, done that) is highly beneficial. Deciding that women are less than truthful with their dating advice because they want to avoid confrontation is laughable. Maybe some women, but wow…come on now…you’ve never met a woman who will confront an issue head-on? Saying you need to attract the emotional, not logical parts of a woman is crazy, especially if you want marriage. Women want someone who can challenge them intellectually, not just buy them baubles & make them feel girly. Considering women want a lover as well, their advice would come from that aspect, not their maternal angle (which not all women have that maternal instinct, so again, not highly accurate). Experience backing up the advice? Let’s see…my husband (12 1/2 yrs married, 15 as a couple, friends prior to that) followed no rules. In fact, we did things that had others thinking we were nuts, but it worked for us. After our first date, I actually initiated contact with him. He was in the midst of setting up a new business, & I knew he was swamped. So I popped into his business one night to talk to him, set up date #2, etc. he loved it.

I’m in no way offended by the three day rule & appearing to be a challenge. I just think that it’s stupid & unnecessary, especially if those things don’t match your personality. Don’t be someone else, don’t be a rule book, etc. just be yourself. And if being yourself means calling “too soon”, being an open book, etc, then the woman who is right for you will appreciate all of that.

 

[chevalier]

Had a coffee date today. I think it went well. At the end of the date, I said I’d call her, and she asked me to walk her to her car. I did, and I kissed her on the cheek. I said I’d call her again, and she said please do. So, sounds like she wants to see me again, right?

Yes, she does. She made an open request for your company (to walk her to her car, that is), and she made a gracious response to your offer to phone her (well, as long as ‘please do’ is more or less the actual wording).

That does not necessarily mean she’s romantically interested in you, but my impression here is of a proper young lady who’s acting in a generous way. And apparently interested in meeting you again, either due to a positive view of you or a loan of confidence (that you haven’t managed to waste).

All in all, looks very good.

Thanks! Thinking about asking her to dinner next weekend. She likes Italian, so gotta do some research. LOL!

Allora, cosa ci fai seduto qui, invece di imparare la lingua!

 

[chevalier]

Andiamo con le altre cose:

Don’t wait. Call her back tomorrow. Let her know what a wonderful time you had. Ask her if she has a favorite restaurant. If you’re meeting her there, get there ahead of time, stand up when you see her, smile, tell her how wonderful she looks, pull out her chair, ask her about her week, show interest. This is a date, so you pay.

Basically, Patti’s post is the introduction to the cultural differences kind of talk that followed later. For starters, some women – and in my own culture generally most women – expect you to name the place. Hints? Dude you gotta read her mind and be good at it if you want to achieve anything. I personally don’t like that, which explains, for example, why I don’t have much luck with women in my very own Polish nation. I’d be the type of guy to ask about her favourite, just like Patti suggested here. This said, you need to be prepared. If she tells you to pick something, you should either already have something on your mind or tell her you’ll think of something nice and either 1) phone her later or 2) just meet up somewhere, anywhere, without telling her where you will ultimately go. I’d be the type to do #2 for the kicks, but I’m not seriously a bad boy like that. You (the OP) need to discover your own style, just don’t focus on yourself, focus on the girl instead. But be active rather than reactive, even though you will have to listen to her and react to how she feels.

Ah, calling tomorrow. We’re gonna talk about that one more. Brace yourselves, gals and dudes (a Pole mentions women first, even if it looks bad in a sentence).

Calling next day might look a bit eager; maybe wait another day or two.

It might, I agree, but at the same time, it shows her that you’re interested. There are women who could be offended or hurt by an artificial delay. Needless to say, those very same women might also be creeped out by showing yourself too eager. So what’s the deal? The deal is for some women nothing is good. You won’t please them, you can’t please, so don’t try, and certainly don’t allow their issues to prevent you from appealing to the kind of woman to whom your normal personality and character would apply.

If you pretend, you’ll end up with a girl who likes someone else. If you are yourself (but the yourself you want to be, not the yourself you sometimes end up being), then you will face some rejection and perhaps have to wait longer, but you will find a girl who actually likes you.

Really, what’s the point if you have a girl who likes your friend, and your friend has a girl who likes you, just because both of you guys pretended before the girls? Madness! I cry madness. And woe.

Now, onward.

But no. On second thought, no. Let me tell you a story instead. A short one, don’t worry. Once upon a time, when you had to walk 20 miles to school uphill in the snow, that is in 2010, I met a girl who actually phoned me the moment she got home, and that was after 1 a.m. Mind you, not only did she call first, that is called me, a man, first, after a meeting, she did say way into the taboo hours, and to ask how I felt about the meeting. Guess what. She was still creeped out or something like that, but anyway, I did hear the LJBF (Let’s Just Be Friends). You just don’t know what’s going on in a woman’s head, and you certainly don’t know what’s gonna happen.

 

[chevalier]

No, no, no. Weekday dates fall into the second-class category. If you really like her and want her to let her know you think she’s special, it’s Saturday night, all the way.

Special for me is 6 a.m. at the park gate. If she plays along and says ‘okay’ like that’s the most normal thing under the sun to do, then she’s special. If she questions my sanity, I ask her to tell me something I don’t already know.

On a serious note, though, it’s a good thing to show a woman she’s special to you, but you do need to keep some things in your mind: 1) the possibility of ill reaction to your being ‘eager’, 2) the possibility of you exaggerating the real state of your affections for the girl, 3) the possibility of pressuring a girl into playing along instead of duly giving thought to her doubts and reservations (which only delays the LJBF or, heck, even divorce years later), 4) all other sorts of pressure and drama.

Basically, it will work but with the right woman. But you don’t want to be after the wrong woman anyway, so what do you care. Just be prepared that some women will not like that or will react in some bad or strange ways.

(Perhaps my view is slanted from reading too many advice columns in which the woman says that her boyfriend only sees her on weekdays. The answer is usually a variation on the theme of “Wake up and smell the coffee! There’s someone else in his life who takes priority over you.”)

Not necessarily, if I had to guess, it would involve the romantic interest having a low priority compared to work, school, buddies, hobbies and everything else. Which is also how girls treat guys sometimes. Sometimes married people can’t get their spouses to commit some time to them actually, instead of just about anything else the spouse can think of. Perhaps a form of runaway bride (or groom), I suppose.

I can’t speak for other women but personally, I can’t stand a guy who ‘wants to be a challenge’. (…) And I think that men who try to look mysterious are actually shoving me away by putting up walls.

Interesting. Again, cultural differences. Perhaps much to do with values rather then geographical or similar divides. I actually had a forum conversation about that some 12 hours ago in a Polish Catholic dating forum, and I said something along the lines you did here (except I’m male). I still need to see how much flak’s gathered up there since then.

I’d generally encourage anyone to be himself or herself and quit the games, even though humans generally like mysteries. But a mature relationship isn’t really built on hide and seek.

Honestly, if a man told me he could not see me on a Saturday night and didn’t have a good reason, I would think he is taking someone else out. Turn off!

Naww! Unless someone’s name is Fred and they both meet Bud(weiser). Or Xbox. With all due respect, you do look for ‘the other woman’ too hard. Please be careful not to accuse the eventual man you like if something like that happens. Accusations are sometimes quick to make but slow to mend. This said, obviously, it’s not fun to be low on the priority list, that’s a red flag on its own.

Obligatory 2-3? Who makes up this junk? lol If you like her, you call her. If she likes you, you will not seem too eager.

Precisely. If she likes you, great. If she doesn’t, well, that’s called sexual harassment and you can pick up your restraining order at the post office in case you missed the server.

Gotta agree. My husband called me as soon as he got home and left a message on my machine after our first meeting. We made plans to meet in two days, on a Tuesday for our second date. We were engaged within 5 months.

Because you were both interested. The part about being ‘creepy’ for phoning 4 hours and 34 minutes too early (or something like that) usually involves a woman who was simply not that into the man. Which means it was pretty much irrelevant at which time he called, she was simply not interested to begin with.

Call her sooner than later, make arrangements when it suits both of your schedules and throw away the rules book on dating. Make up your own rules, be original. (…) show a bit of initiative and do things your own way.

Yup, real men make up their own rules (though ‘love obeys the good mores’). They also get away with being eager, sometimes.

OP,
My advice is to listen to dating advice from men, not women. Listen to the gender that is trying to attract the women.

CaliLobo does have a point. We’ll see why in a minute.

 

[Lorelei12]

It’s been a few days now, OP. Have you called her yet?

And I concur with all the posters who don’t think playing games is a wise way to keep a woman interested. Don’t try to add “mystery” by being unavailable on a weekend, don’t wait a certain number of days before calling. That doesn’t mean you have to be too eager, but just be yourself and let things unfold naturally.

Dating isn’t supposed to be a “challenge”. As a woman, I had enough going on between grad school and work that I had no interest in trying to figure out whether a guy was interested or not. When I started dating my husband, I never had to guess whether he liked me. If I hadn’t been sure, I guarantee we wouldn’t be married right now because I wouldn’t have wasted my time with someone who thought “mystery” meant making me guess whether he even liked me or not.

 

[chevalier]

That is why women here appear offended by things like the 3-day rule and appearing as a challenge. But in reality, if you don’t appear as a challenge, women will friend-zone you, and consider you a great guy but have no idea why you don’t do it for them.

I’d like to distance myself from #1-4, but even they have some merit. See, the problem is that you will sometimes hear about the ideal world rather than about what really works. In particular, I have noticed that acting like women describe a man should act does often lead to being friend-zoned. In which case they: ‘consider you a great guy but have no idea why you don’t do it for them,’ just like CaliLobo said.

However, I believe the above has a lot to do with the fact that sometimes women cave in to mystery, uncertainty etc. just like anybody, man or woman, gives in to addictions or temptations. We know it’s bad for our health, we still eat it, drink it, sniff it, date it.

But the key here really is to find someone who will choose you willingly, not someone whose will to resist (and look out for something better) will be broken into settling by a couple of simple tricks.

If you supplicate too much she will raise a red flag.

True. But, at the same time, a wise woman will read your character better. She won’t stop on the superficial level of stereotypes and jerk reactions.

One underrated aspect of being a Challenge is that it protects the man (and woman) from investing in a relationship that is not going to work.

Well, a man needs to be able to take risks, expose himself, especially if it will save the woman from harm. On the other hand, I don’t see how a man’s being a ‘challenge’ protects the woman.

For instance, calling back a day or two later than the average joe protects the guy from women who aren’t likely to be interested in a long term relationship. If, after a couple extra days she forgets she ever met you, then there probably isn’t enough of a spark to sustain a relationship. Better not to waste each other’s time.

True, but at the same time people who really are interested follow through with a greater intensity than the average attempt at a dating relationship. So the perceived intensity may be lacking. The spark may appear to be absent, if you prefer.

Here’s an example from my experience… In my early days of dating, I always took women to very nice restaurants, paid them lots of compliments…etc. But later I wised up and started with an inexpensive coffee date instead.

Yeah, compliments make it look like your currency is flattery. You’d better have something more solid than that. Plus, it can make them think of those suave players. As for paying, I don’t go for an ‘economic option’, but I keep it within my station. And I generally pay, but I do it as quietly as possible and separate the lady from the bill. I don’t think I’d seriously run into someone who just likes to be wined and dined and enjoy such time. I’d know through other signs. So would you, I believe, unless you’re forced to date women you really know very little about (or very little that’s actually reliable knowledge).

(A lot of what we’re talking about is a carry-over from teenage dating, by the way. Things change as people grow up.)

So there was a young lady I met and asked her out. She was extremely attractive, seemed nice, and I wanted to get to know her better. When we met at the coffee shop she immediately offered to pay for her own drink. Well, at that point I knew that she wasn’t interested in a romantic way. We sat and talked a bit, and I made a friend. Total cost was a couple bucks and less than 30 minutes of my time. Nothing wrong with that!

Well, if she wasn’t interested, then she did a kind thing in not allowing you to build up hopes. On the other hand, a woman who is interested may very well offer to pay for herself (for example, my mother always insisted on paying her part), and a woman who’s not interested in your romantically may still give you the opportunity to act like an old-fashioned gentleman.

Speaking of which, paying for the woman in your company is not a dating custom (in which case it would be meaningless). It’s a genteelish custom that refers simply to the lady and gentleman type of interaction. You’re basically the host, perhaps the protector, hence you deal with things like bills. Applicable to your wife, girlfriend, female friend, sister, mother, heck, even your female boss who earns more than you do.

Now suppose I had asked this same young lady out to a super-nice restaurant with entrees at >$30 a pop. Is she going to offer to pay her own way then? My experience says probably not. And going further, I might mistake her intentions and invite her out on multiple expensive dates after that - all paid for by me. Because don’t you know there are women out there (no one here, of course) that would allow a man to buy her dinner over and over and over again and have no real intention of a long term relationship.

Hey, but those dinners and other treats are not the price of a long-term relationship! (Or a short-term or any other.) You can’t buy a woman.

Either it’s a more or less disinterested gift or you don’t give it. I don’t mean perfectly disinterested and completely selfless and all. Obviously, you do have some hopes, so you spend more of your resources on such gifts than you otherwise would, but it’s still a gift, not an investment.

Women sometimes insist on paying their own part of the bill to avoid getting tangled up in that kind of logic and to keep their independence throughout the initial stages of acquaintance. They act reasonably, in my opinion, as a couple dozen or a couple hundred bucks is clearly not a good price to lose your independence for.

 

[chevalier]

Or worse than that, maybe behind that sweet exterior is a gold digger type women (again, I know no one here is like that). Maybe this woman is just looking for some rich guy who is eager to spend all his money on her.

And the other way round, a woman could rightly tell you a word or two about trying to buy her favours with material means. Look, I know money doesn’t grow on trees, and thrift is a good thing. But in my honest opinion, as a fellow guy, you’re in danger of taking it too far. Not that you’re dating any more but anyway.

and treating her to what whatever her little heart desires when you barely know her name.

How do you know what her little heart desires? I doubt the desires of her little heart are reducible to a $20 (or $100) meal.

 

[on_the_hill]

Dating advice from women is often: 1) What you want to hear but not the truth (because women avoid confrontation), 2) Comes from the logical brain but not the emotional brain (which is the part you need to attract), 3) Comes from the maternal instinct but not the lover’s instinct (which is the part you need to attract), and 4) Has no experience backing up the advice (unless they’re lesbian).

CaliLobo, are you married?

Sure, there are millions of women who want to play the game. But these women are not the ones with whom you have a relationship. And guess what? When these millions of women are ready to have a relationship they stop playing the game.

My wife told me that very soon after we started dating (within a the first two or three dates) she made a deliberate decision to stop playing the game.

 

[CaliLobo]

CaliLobo, are you married?

Sure, there are millions of women who want to play the game. But these women are not the ones with whom you have a relationship. And guess what? When these millions of women are ready to have a relationship they stop playing the game.

My wife told me that very soon after we started dating (within a the first two or three dates) she made a deliberate decision to stop playing the game.

I don’t need to be married to know what I know. And for you it still took the game to get to the non-game point, right?

 

[PatriceA]

One underrated aspect of being a Challenge is that it protects the man (and woman) from investing in a relationship that is not going to work.

For instance, calling back a day or two later than the average joe protects the guy from women who aren’t likely to be interested in a long term relationship. If, after a couple extra days she forgets she ever met you, then there probably isn’t enough of a spark to sustain a relationship. Better not to waste each other’s time.

Here’s an example from my experience… In my early days of dating, I always took women to very nice restaurants, paid them lots of compliments…etc. But later I wised up and started with an inexpensive coffee date instead.

So there was a young lady I met and asked her out. She was extremely attractive, seemed nice, and I wanted to get to know her better. When we met at the coffee shop she immediately offered to pay for her own drink. Well, at that point I knew that she wasn’t interested in a romantic way. We sat and talked a bit, and I made a friend. Total cost was a couple bucks and less than 30 minutes of my time. Nothing wrong with that!

Now suppose I had asked this same young lady out to a super-nice restaurant with entrees at >$30 a pop. Is she going to offer to pay her own way then? My experience says probably not. And going further, I might mistake her intentions and invite her out on multiple expensive dates after that - all paid for by me. Because don’t you know there are women out there (no one here, of course) that would allow a man to buy her dinner over and over and over again and have no real intention of a long term relationship.

Or worse than that, maybe behind that sweet exterior is a gold digger type women (again, I know no one here is like that). Maybe this woman is just looking for some rich guy who is eager to spend all his money on her.

I don’t presume to speak for Father_Of_10, but what he said above is a perfect example of what I call challenge. It’s testing her a bit to see if she is the type of woman you would really want to marry. It is not assuming she is miss wonderful, giving her first place on your social calendar by the second date, and treating her to what whatever her little heart desires when you barely know her name.

Also, I think it’s great that some men and women are able to find their spouses so naturally and easily (actually I’m a bit envious). Wasn’t so easy for me. I led with my heart and it got beaten up like a Mike Tyson punching bag. So I hope you will forgive me for shifting gears and taking a bit more measured, guarded approach than some of you have. I can’t speak for others, but I can say that my approach gave me the confidence that the woman I married truly loved and cared about me. And in a world where divorce and infidelity are rampant, even among Christians, I don’t think that’s such a bad thing.

I just want to comment on the bolded part. I paid my own way the first couple of times I went out with my husband. The first time I ever really decided to do that when going out on the first couple of dates. Don’t assume just because a woman pays her own way, that means she’s not interested. It may mean she’s tired of being pressured to be obligated in some way when she hasn’t quite decided if the relationship has any legs or not. I treated my husband the same way I treated getting to know anybody else, as a friend first and not just as someone to date. I decided it was the best way to build trust, and it worked, because he was very pleasantly surprised that I hadn’t assumed he would always foot the bill from day one. As we began to date, sometimes he planned the dates, sometimes I planned them and we paid accordingly for when we made the plans.

 

[on_the_hill]

I don’t need to be married to know what I know. And for you it still took the game to get to the non-game point, right?

Well…she told me I was right at the edge because I let too much time pass between first and second dates. Knowing what I know now, in a similar situation I’d be a lot more open.

Of course, I’m a lot older, too, and wouldn’t want to play games anymore.

 

[PatriceA]

I don’t need to be married to know what I know. And for you it still took the game to get to the non-game point, right?

Actually…yeah you do need to be married to know what worked, or at least in a serious relationship that is leading towards marriage. If you’re not married, all you actually know right now is what hasn’t worked up to this point.

 

[thewanderer]

I don’t need to be married to know what I know. And for you it still took the game to get to the non-game point, right?

As somebody else said… how can you know what works if nothing has worked for you yet? I am about to get married in less than 2 months and I can assure you that if I dated someone who “played games” with me it would cause definite problems in the relationship once I figured out what was going on. I am not ok with people putting on fake personas/acting in fake ways just so that they can do the things they think will make me like them. Nope, sorry, I do not like being manipulated. I want to know people as they are and this is especially true if I am going to ever marry them. No fake personas, no games, just straight up reality. And don’t try to claim that because I’m a woman I’m just making things up or just speaking logically and not emotionally. I know what worked with my fiance, and I assure you it had nothing to do with playing games. Maybe playing games can get you more dates, but it sure as heck is not going to get you good marriages. Even if you do get a good relationship by playing games, that needs to end well before marriage or else you guys will be in trouble. Playing games and manipulating others has no place in marriage.

 

[PatriceA]

As somebody else said… how can you know what works if nothing has worked for you yet? I am about to get married in less than 2 months and I can assure you that if I dated someone who “played games” with me it would cause definite problems in the relationship once I figured out what was going on. I am not ok with people putting on fake personas/acting in fake ways just so that they can do the things they think will make me like them. Nope, sorry, I do not like being manipulated. I want to know people as they are and this is especially true if I am going to ever marry them. No fake personas, no games, just straight up reality. And don’t try to claim that because I’m a woman I’m just making things up or just speaking logically and not emotionally. I know what worked with my fiance, and I assure you it had nothing to do with playing games. Maybe playing games can get you more dates, but it sure as heck is not going to get you good marriages. Even if you do get a good relationship by playing games, that needs to end well before marriage or else you guys will be in trouble. Playing games and manipulating others has no place in marriage.

I can’t wrap my brain around how you would even switch things around once you started into the relationship… Like “Hey Honey, you know how you have come to know me over the past couple of weeks (months, days, whatever), well, um, see that isn’t really me. I mean I was just playing around to get you interested in me. But now I want to be sure all games are off and we’re going to be real around each other now that we’re getting serious. No really, I mean I don’t want to be part of the game and you’re just going to love getting to know who I really am…compared to the person I was trying to be when we first got together.”

Yeah…I’m running away as fast as possible and maybe seeking out a restraining order.

 

[thewanderer]

PatriceA:
I can’t wrap my brain around how you would even switch things around once you started into the relationship… Like “Hey Honey, you know how you have come to know me over the past couple of weeks (months, days, whatever), well, um, see that isn’t really me. I mean I was just playing around to get you interested in me. But now I want to be sure all games are off and we’re going to be real around each other now that we’re getting serious. No really, I mean I don’t want to be part of the game and you’re just going to love getting to know who I really am…compared to the person I was trying to be when we first got together.”

Yeah…I’m running away as fast as possible and maybe seeking out a restraining order.

Yeah, which is why I said that if someone was playing games to get me to date them there would be very real problems in our relationship. Because it would eventually be found out, and when it was it would mean the relationship would practically have to start again from the beginning, this time with my significant other ending any manipulation and “games” he’d been using and actually being himself. If he couldn’t do that, he’d be gone and I wouldn’t look back for a second. He would be the one who deceived me by pretending to be something he wasn’t and people who deceive me and try to manipulate me just aren’t worth the time.