Coffee date

[AuditVocemMeam]

The point of the “wait X days before calling” is so you aren’t being needy or over-eager. The point of not being over-eager and needy is because then women can (even unconsciously) take you for granted and not find you exciting any more since you are obviously theirs, and they don’t think they have to work to keep you interested. There is a tendency that people want what they can’t have and don’t want what they can have. Not saying that’s universal.

Besides, consider if you were buying a car, and the salesman was really persistent on trying to get you to buy it, lowering his price, having a supplicating attitude, etc. and compare that to a salesman who obviously valued the car, gave you a price, and wasn’t willing to bargain too much because he knew lots of other people would want the car if you didn’t. Which one would you feel more confident about?

I don’t understand why it is such a big problem. If there’s one thing men can’t stand, it’s getting LJBF’d. If men want to appeal to women, they are going to want to do things to ensure LJBF doesn’t happen.

 

[thewanderer]

The point of the “wait X days before calling” is so you aren’t being needy or over-eager. The point of not being over-eager and needy is because then women can (even unconsciously) take you for granted and not find you exciting any more since you are obviously theirs, and they don’t think they have to work to keep you interested. There is a tendency that people want what they can’t have and don’t want what they can have. Not saying that’s universal.

Besides, consider if you were buying a car, and the salesman was really persistent on trying to get you to buy it, lowering his price, having a supplicating attitude, etc. and compare that to a salesman who obviously valued the car, gave you a price, and wasn’t willing to bargain too much because he knew lots of other people would want the car if you didn’t. Which one would you feel more confident about?

I don’t understand why it is such a big problem. If there’s one thing men can’t stand, it’s getting LJBF’d. If men want to appeal to women, they are going to want to do things to ensure LJBF doesn’t happen.

Well instead of following rules to prevent you from being needy and over-eager why not work on changing yourself so that you are not needy? I’m sorry, but why would I want to stay in a relationship with someone who is actually so needy that he needs to follow set rules made up by others to hold his neediness in check? Every relationship is different, but what is most important is that you be yourself forget about trying to follow set rules about how and when to date. Instead focus on being a good person who is ready for marriage and then just be yourself. Don’t try to artificially create a fake you, people don’t want to fall in love with a fake image of you and they don’t appreciate being manipulated. Instead of following strict made-up rules just work on improving yourself, then you won’t need any “rules” to help you find a spouse.

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

Well instead of following rules to prevent you from being needy and over-eager why not work on changing yourself so that you are not needy? I’m sorry, but why would I want to stay in a relationship with someone who is actually so needy that he needs to follow set rules made up by others to hold his neediness in check? Every relationship is different, but what is most important is that you be yourself forget about trying to follow set rules about how and when to date. Instead focus on being a good person who is ready for marriage and then just be yourself. Don’t try to artificially create a fake you, people don’t want to fall in love with a fake image of you and they don’t appreciate being manipulated. Instead of following strict made-up rules just work on improving yourself, then you won’t need any “rules” to help you find a spouse.

I agree. What a man really should do is find enough interesting things to do that women are not all he thinks about, or even the primary thing he thinks about. If a man has dreams, aspirations, interesting hobbies, important things to do, etc. that takes care of the “call at this time” scenario - since you have so much to do, you have to take care of those other things and wait to call - and it also makes you more of an attractive man since you have interesting things going for you in life other than a desire for women.

 

[DateAnalysis]

Just called her and left a VM - her phone was off. Let’s see if she will call back! Fingers crossed.

 

[underacloud]

Just called her and left a VM - her phone was off. Let’s see if she will call back! Fingers crossed.

Don’t rely on her returning your call, although I hope she will. Some women are shy about such things and for all you know more nervous than you are. You may need to call again.

At this point there probably are appropriate “rules” about how quickly you should try again, or how many times you should call. Maybe wait two days and then try again. If the phone is off, don’t leave a message and just keep calling until you get it when it’s on. If it rings but she doesn’t answer, I still wouldn’t at the point leave a message, because her missed call registry will show that you called. If you leave two messages and she doesn’t respond, I think you’re stuck, so I’d avoid that. Rather, you could send an SMS, which would be appropriate since you have first tried to call and it will be easy for her to respond, either positively or not.

But hopefully she will call you before you have to worry about it.

 

[CaliLobo]

Don’t rely on her returning your call, although I hope she will. Some women are shy about such things and for all you know more nervous than you are. You may need to call again.

At this point there probably are appropriate “rules” about how quickly you should try again, or how many times you should call. Maybe wait two days and then try again. If the phone is off, don’t leave a message and just keep calling until you get it when it’s on. If it rings but she doesn’t answer, I still wouldn’t at the point leave a message, because her missed call registry will show that you called. If you leave two messages and she doesn’t respond, I think you’re stuck, so I’d avoid that. Rather, you could send an SMS, which would be appropriate since you have first tried to call and it will be easy for her to respond, either positively or not.

But hopefully she will call you before you have to worry about it.

Assuming your phone message had good, positive, confident energy (i.e. good game), and assuming that you attracted her and she enjoyed your previous interaction, you should get a response within 24 hours.

However, there are many confounding factors such as the busy-ness of life. So in general, wait 2-3 days without any further contact. If no response, text one more time only. Make the text confident but honest. If no response, you’re out of luck; consider that a rejection. Move on with the mentality that your happiness is not dependent on her response to you. You don’t know her well, so who cares.

If you were supposed to meet sooner than 2-3 days, then shorten the waiting period.

If you know she is out of town or facing an emergency for more than 2-3 days, then lengthen the waiting period.

Do not expect a prompt response, although a prompt response is a good sign. Women are also concerned with not looking to clingy, so they will play the game as well.

Don’t hate the player or the game! There is nothing wrong with the game. Every animal species has a mating dance. This is how God created human attraction.

Do not contact her more than those two aforementioned times! That is the kind of thing women call creepy and lacking confidence. Besides, you only need two times to “get the clue” and determine whether she’s interested or not.

As much as I wish women can just honestly tell me what they are thinking in a timely manner, that is not the language that God created them to speak.

Women, am I right.

 

[underacloud]

Hang on…aren’t you the same guy posting that you’re at your “witts end” and have no idea how you will ever find someone to date again? Why are you dolling out dating advice? And why running down women in general while you’re at it?

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

I didn’t see him running down women. Do you want to provide evidence for that?

 

[CaliLobo]

Hang on…aren’t you the same guy posting that you’re at your “witts end” and have no idea how you will ever find someone to date again? Why are you dolling out dating advice? And why running down women in general while you’re at it?

The OP is asking a particular question about whether a date went well and how to secure a second date. I am qualified to answer that. Personally I am at wit’s end because of my unique problematic situation (age, geography, dating history, life history, height and race, and so on). But I have confidence that the OP won’t face the same problems I am facing.

 

[underacloud]

I didn’t see him running down women. Do you want to provide evidence for that?

Sure…his mistrust of women is not hard to see…

Women are also concerned with not looking to clingy, so they will play the game as well.

Don’t hate the player or the game! There is nothing wrong with the game. Every animal species has a mating dance. This is how God created human attraction.

…

As much as I wish women can just honestly tell me what they are thinking in a timely manner, that is not the language that God created them to speak.

Women, am I right.

OP,
My advice is to listen to dating advice from men, not women. Listen to the gender that is trying to attract the women.

Dating advice from women is often: 1) What you want to hear but not the truth (because women avoid confrontation), 2) Comes from the logical brain but not the emotional brain (which is the part you need to attract), 3) Comes from the maternal instinct but not the lover’s instinct (which is the part you need to attract), and 4) Has no experience backing up the advice (unless they’re lesbian).

That is why women here appear offended by things like the 3-day rule and appearing as a challenge. But in reality, if you don’t appear as a challenge, women will friend-zone you, and consider you a great guy but have no idea why you don’t do it for them.

If you supplicate too much she will raise a red flag.

I guarantee you that following women’s advice to the letter will score you nothing. I know because I’ve tried it myself.

And you could have a look in the other thread where he says he’s at his “wit’s end” when it comes to women.

 

[underacloud]

The OP is asking a particular question about whether a date went well and how to secure a second date. I am qualified to answer that. Personally I am at wit’s end because of my unique problematic situation (age, geography, dating history, life history, height and race, and so on). But I have confidence that the OP won’t face the same problems I am facing.

Very well. The perhaps just stick to answering that and leaving out the discussion about playing games and how men can’t take women at their word.

 

[DateAnalysis]

Don’t rely on her returning your call, although I hope she will. Some women are shy about such things and for all you know more nervous than you are. You may need to call again.

At this point there probably are appropriate “rules” about how quickly you should try again, or how many times you should call. Maybe wait two days and then try again. If the phone is off, don’t leave a message and just keep calling until you get it when it’s on. If it rings but she doesn’t answer, I still wouldn’t at the point leave a message, because her missed call registry will show that you called. If you leave two messages and she doesn’t respond, I think you’re stuck, so I’d avoid that. Rather, you could send an SMS, which would be appropriate since you have first tried to call and it will be easy for her to respond, either positively or not.

But hopefully she will call you before you have to worry about it.

Sorry, that’s just not my style. I call and leave a message. If she calls back, good; otherwise, I move on.

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

Sure…his mistrust of women is not hard to see…

The male mind and the female mind are different. I don’t expect that the female mind completely knows what attracts them to men, just as I don’t expect that the male mind completely knows what attracts us to women. But women do want maleness, masculinity, but since they don’t fully understand that (since they haven’t experienced it) whereas men understand it more (because they have) it makes sense that men would have a more developed understanding of this, especially considering that they have been able to perform “trial and error” experiments to find out what works and doesn’t work. If you listen to women, you will get a female perspective on relationships; we want to be men, and a male perspective is better for understanding how to be men.

In fact, a lot of the “how do I attract a girl” question can basically be summed up by “be a man” - and it’s easier for a man to tell you that than a woman.

 

[underacloud]

Sorry, that’s just not my style. I call and leave a message. If she calls back, good; otherwise, I move on.

There’s all sorts of reasons why one phone call may not be enough, and if you’re ready to just move on then it sounds like you’re not very interested in this girl. Maybe one day you’ll meet a girl who’s worth more than one phone call.

 

[underacloud]

The male mind and the female mind are different. I don’t expect that the female mind completely knows what attracts them to men, just as I don’t expect that the male mind completely knows what attracts us to women. But women do want maleness, masculinity, but since they don’t fully understand that (since they haven’t experienced it) whereas men understand it more (because they have) it makes sense that men would have a more developed understanding of this, especially considering that they have been able to perform “trial and error” experiments to find out what works and doesn’t work. If you listen to women, you will get a female perspective on relationships; we want to be men, and a male perspective is better for understanding how to be men.

In fact, a lot of the “how do I attract a girl” question can basically be summed up by “be a man” - and it’s easier for a man to tell you that than a woman.

“Be a man”? Right, so you work out what you want and go get it. Is that manly enough? Do real men play games, worry about being needy or over-eager, or just be honest and determined.

How about: “Hi Jane, I had a great night last night and was hoping to see you again soon. How is Saturday night?”

What’s un-manly about that?

PS I’m well aware of the different physchological factors that may influence men and women in dating approaches and choices. But none of them preclude honesty as a suitable approach, especially to finding a good Catholic spouse.

 

[DateAnalysis]

There’s all sorts of reasons why one phone call may not be enough, and if you’re ready to just move on then it sounds like you’re not very interested in this girl. Maybe one day you’ll meet a girl who’s worth more than one phone call.

I disagree. I left a message. If she’s interested, she will call back. If she doesn’t call back, that means she’s not interested for whatever reason, and no matter how many more times I call her, it’s not going to change that. And really, I’ve only had one coffee date with her, which doesn’t give me the right to keep bugging her.

I’m sorry, but what you’re describing comes across as desperate to me.

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

“Be a man”? Right, so you work out what you want and go get it. Is that manly enough? Do real men play games, worry about being needy or over-eager, or just be honest and determined.

I just don’t think the “games” are necessarily bad. It’s less worrying about being needy or over-eager and more dodging the spray of LJBF bullets.

How about: “Hi Jane, I had a great night last night and was hoping to see you again soon. How is Saturday night?”

What’s un-manly about that?

It’s not necessarily - depends on when “last night” was. But I think waiting might be more prudent to dodge those bullets.

PS I’m well aware of the different physchological factors that may influence men and women in dating approaches and choices. But none of them preclude honesty as a suitable approach, especially to finding a good Catholic spouse.

Yeah. I just think men need to avoid the silly behavior of trying to make the woman feel like she’s the greatest thing in the world and God’s gift to men. That can easily just pump up people’s egos with no real good effects.

 

[LaughingBoy1503]

To the OP, yeah, everyone is a dating expert, but nobody can help me with my dating problems

Good luck, don’t let over-analyzing everything take the fun out of it. That is the only dating advice I can give that is “One Size fits all”

 

[thewanderer]

The male mind and the female mind are different. I don’t expect that the female mind completely knows what attracts them to men, just as I don’t expect that the male mind completely knows what attracts us to women. But women do want maleness, masculinity, but since they don’t fully understand that (since they haven’t experienced it) whereas men understand it more (because they have) it makes sense that men would have a more developed understanding of this, especially considering that they have been able to perform “trial and error” experiments to find out what works and doesn’t work. If you listen to women, you will get a female perspective on relationships; we want to be men, and a male perspective is better for understanding how to be men.

In fact, a lot of the “how do I attract a girl” question can basically be summed up by “be a man” - and it’s easier for a man to tell you that than a woman.

Yeah, sure, men know more about being men. But CaliLobo coming on here and insisting that women want men to play games with them, put on a fake persona and manipulate them is just ridiculous. Sure, I might not be able to explain every aspect of manliness (though seeing as I am attracted to men its not as if I am completely ignorant or as though I have nothing to go off of) but I know enough about myself to know that I will not stand for being manipulated and I will not continue a relationship with a fake persona that is put on for the sake of manipulating me. All I can say is that if this is the way most men approach dating I truly am glad that I found the man I did, no need for games or manipulation, just plain being himself is more than enough for me. I would have given up on dating altogether if I just kept running into people who view it as a game of manipulation.

I just don’t think the “games” are necessarily bad. It’s less worrying about being needy or over-eager and more dodging the spray of LJBF bullets.

It depends on what you mean by “games”. If you just mean prudence, thats one thing, but if you mean following rules some guy made up because it’ll get women to go out on dates with you by manipulating their feelings and creating a false persona of who you are then no, sorry, not ok. Women are not objects to be manipulated. We are people to be treated with respect.

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

It depends on what you mean by “games”. If you just mean prudence, thats one thing, but if you mean following rules some guy made up because it’ll get women to go out on dates with you by manipulating their feelings and creating a false persona of who you are then no, sorry, not ok. Women are not objects to be manipulated. We are people to be treated with respect.

What do you expect men to do, though? Considering the proliferation of emotion-based responses by women (i.e. “I don’t think of you that way,” “I don’t feel that about you,” “I think of you as a friend” etc) then what else are we supposed to do but appeal to women’s emotions? If women shut down men over and over with the same reasons, then it’s odd to expect men not to work to make it so that doesn’t happen again. If you have a better way to avoid getting LJBF’d, I’m happy to hear it.