Coffee date

[underacloud]

I disagree. I left a message. If she’s interested, she will call back. If she doesn’t call back, that means she’s not interested for whatever reason, and no matter how many more times I call her, it’s not going to change that. And really, I’ve only had one coffee date with her, which doesn’t give me the right to keep bugging her.

I’m sorry, but what you’re describing comes across as desperate to me.

What if she accidentally deleted your message/number?

What if she’s quite shy?

There are reasons why she may not call that have nothing to do with not being interested.

There’s nothing desparate about a followup call or SMS. Like I implied, if you were very interested in her, this is not a lot to ask. Your lukewarmness does not bode well for this possible relationship.

Maybe I came across as desparate to my wife when I chased her. But after 10 years of marriage I really don’t care.

 

[thewanderer]

What do you expect men to do, though? Considering the proliferation of emotion-based responses by women (i.e. “I don’t think of you that way,” “I don’t feel that about you,” “I think of you as a friend” etc) then what else are we supposed to do but appeal to women’s emotions? If women shut down men over and over with the same reasons, then it’s odd to expect men not to work to make it so that doesn’t happen again. If you have a better way to avoid getting LJBF’d, I’m happy to hear it.

Treat women with enough respect that you don’t look on them as an object to be manipulated. A person to be wooed, fine. But an object to be manipulated? No. If that means you get fewer dating opportunities than so be it. Life isn’t always easy.

But honestly, I wonder if part of the problem here is just equivocation. You are going to have to take into account women’s emotional reactions when you try to woo them, obviously. That’s a part of who they are. But if you ever start to look at it as a “game” whereby you manipulate their feelings to get them to do what you want them to that is just not ok. So knowing that lots of women don’t like men calling the next day because they think its creepy and so not calling the next day is fine. Thats just being prudent and taking the girls wishes into account. But trying to manipulate her into liking you more by playing games with her emotions is just not ok. Women are not toys to be manipulated as you please so that you get the results you desire. They are people and deserve to be treated and thought of as such.

 

[chevalier]

The point of the “wait X days before calling” is so you aren’t being needy or over-eager. The point of not being over-eager and needy is because then women can (even unconsciously) take you for granted and not find you exciting any more since you are obviously theirs, and they don’t think they have to work to keep you interested. There is a tendency that people want what they can’t have and don’t want what they can have. Not saying that’s universal.

Think long-term. You don’t really want a relationship with someone whose LJBF you have only dodged barely, especially by reducing your appearance of being interested in that person. Show her your interested, and if she LJBF’s you as being too eager and thus creepy, then she has failed the test, and you need to move on.

Besides, consider if you were buying a car, and the salesman was really persistent on trying to get you to buy it, lowering his price, having a supplicating attitude, etc. and compare that to a salesman who obviously valued the car, gave you a price, and wasn’t willing to bargain too much because he knew lots of other people would want the car if you didn’t. Which one would you feel more confident about?

The car I carefully inspected and did some research on and asked my friends about.

I don’t understand why it is such a big problem. If there’s one thing men can’t stand, it’s getting LJBF’d. If men want to appeal to women, they are going to want to do things to ensure LJBF doesn’t happen.

Again, think long term. You want someone who wouldn’t even want to LJBF you. You don’t want a short reprieve. You don’t want a suspended LJBF. You don’t want the threat of LJBF hanging over your head. You want a relationship in which LJBF is irrelevant!

And the answer to LJBF is:

‘Actually, becoming my friend takes some work!’

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

Treat women with enough respect that you don’t look on them as an object to be manipulated. A person to be wooed, fine. But an object to be manipulated? No. If that means you get fewer dating opportunities than so be it. Life isn’t always easy.

But honestly, I wonder if part of the problem here is just equivocation. You are going to have to take into account women’s emotional reactions when you try to woo them, obviously. That’s a part of who they are. But if you ever start to look at it as a “game” whereby you manipulate their feelings to get them to do what you want them to that is just not ok. So knowing that lots of women don’t like men calling the next day because they think its creepy and so not calling the next day is fine. Thats just being prudent and taking the girls wishes into account. But trying to manipulate her into liking you more by playing games with her emotions is just not ok. Women are not toys to be manipulated as you please so that you get the results you desire. They are people and deserve to be treated and thought of as such.

Do you think the thought process of “if I wait to call, then she might be more interested because I won’t be showing neediness and will be a more mysterious and interesting person, which women tend to like” is OK?

Think long-term. You don’t really want a relationship with someone whose LJBF you have only dodged barely, especially by reducing your appearance of being interested in that person. Show her your interested, and if she LJBF’s you as being too eager and thus creepy, then she has failed the test, and you need to move on.

For one thing, I think dodging the LJBF at least gets you in the door and allows you to build up the attraction by your further actions. Women could be really attracted to you but think they aren’t interested based on a weird first impression. Besides, I think that the very attractive women are probably bored with the attention that men give them, so if you *don’t *do that, you are different and more interesting since you don’t have to try so hard. You must have some special status or charisma that means you don’t have to place yourself below a beautiful woman. And if you do give her that attention, you’re nothing special - just like all the other men who compliment her and tell her how great she looks.

The car I carefully inspected and did some research on and asked my friends about.

I’m just saying, which sales technique gives you more confidence in what they’re selling

Again, think long term. You want someone who wouldn’t even want to LJBF you. You don’t want a short reprieve. You don’t want a suspended LJBF. You don’t want the threat of LJBF hanging over your head. You want a relationship in which LJBF is irrelevant!

And the answer to LJBF is:

‘Actually, becoming my friend takes some work!’

I just think that sometimes influencing the girl so she wouldn’t want to LJBF you takes more time and work beyond the first impression, so you might as well make as good of a first impression as you can to get your foot in the door. And I haven’t developed a line to use if I get LJBF’d. I should think about that.

 

[thewanderer]

Do you think the thought process of “if I wait to call, then she might be more interested because I won’t be showing neediness and will be a more mysterious and interesting person, which women tend to like” is OK?

Honestly, no (and I admit I had to think for a minute before finally deciding that). But, the thing is, that the above way of thinking is essentially saying “I’m going to make up a version of myself that I think she will like and try to get her to date me based on that fake version of me”

Do you see what I’m saying at all? I just don’t see it as ok to try and misrepresent yourself to dates for the sake of getting them to continue to go out with you. relationships need to be based on truth, honesty, trust, and a real knowledge of the other, faults and all. So the idea of pretending to be something you aren’t for the sake of getting someone to have a relationship with you seems so counter to the essential elements of a relationship that I just can’t be ok with it.

 

[AuditVocemMeam]

Honestly, no (and I admit I had to think for a minute before finally deciding that). But, the thing is, that the above way of thinking is essentially saying “I’m going to make up a version of myself that I think she will like and try to get her to date me based on that fake version of me”

Do you see what I’m saying at all? I just don’t see it as ok to try and misrepresent yourself to dates for the sake of getting them to continue to go out with you. relationships need to be based on truth, honesty, trust, and a real knowledge of the other, faults and all. So the idea of pretending to be something you aren’t for the sake of getting someone to have a relationship with you seems so counter to the essential elements of a relationship that I just can’t be ok with it.

I see. I definitely think that relationships need to be based on honesty, trust, and knowledge. But the first impression isn’t necessarily the appropriate point for that knowledge, yes? I would expect that it is pretty natural and understandable for men to try to put on a good show to try to impress a girl. The deep secrets about one’s insecurities and not-completely-cool-headed personality can come later, if it’s appropriate, but a man is just hurting himself if he doesn’t put his best foot forward. Compare, for example, women wearing makeup to try to look good and hide facial blemishes. Can’t men also hide personality blemishes for the same reason of trying to look good?

Also, it doesn’t have to be fake - one can legitimately adopt certain personality traits which he thinks women would find more attractive. So he can spend more time with his hobbies and be busier so he has less time to call her, etc. It might be motivated by her, but it’s not illegitimate.

 

[thewanderer]

I see. I definitely think that relationships need to be based on honesty, trust, and knowledge. But the first impression isn’t necessarily the appropriate point for that knowledge, yes? I would expect that it is pretty natural and understandable for men to try to put on a good show to try to impress a girl. The deep secrets about one’s insecurities and not-completely-cool-headed personality can come later, if it’s appropriate, but a man is just hurting himself if he doesn’t put his best foot forward. Compare, for example, women wearing makeup to try to look good and hide facial blemishes. Can’t men also hide personality blemishes for the same reason of trying to look good?

Also, it doesn’t have to be fake - one can legitimately adopt certain personality traits which he thinks women would find more attractive. So he can spend more time with his hobbies and be busier so he has less time to call her, etc. It might be motivated by her, but it’s not illegitimate.

Hmmm, yeah, that really gives me food for thought. I do see what your saying and you have a point. (Although I never really wear make-up anyway… well, on Sunday every once in while) Although I would say that such a “mask” should be removed very early on in the relationship. I guess if it is a small and superficial thing used to get their attention that is one thing, but if it is used to get their continued commitment that becomes a problem. If ones commitment to a relationship is based on a mask of a person then your relationship has no solid foundation. I think part of my strong reaction about manipulating the opposite sex by “playing games” is that looking at it that way makes it easier to be tempted to continue to look at the other as a manipulateable object. And the fact that the one poster has so far only managed to speak about women as things to be manipulated so that you get what you want. He never once even implied that he ever thinks about women in any other way, which, if truly representative of his thoughts on the matter is extremely problematic.

 

[DateAnalysis]

Well, I haven’t heard back from her, so I’m assuming that’s probably that.

 

[chevalier]

For one thing, I think dodging the LJBF at least gets you in the door and allows you to build up the attraction by your further actions.

You don’t want to get in the door. You want the door swung open for you. A triumphal arch would be good but is optional.

Women could be really attracted to you but think they aren’t interested based on a weird first impression.

Women are notorious players-with-fire, they don’t skip a man nearly as easily as many men would think. Just like a cat that walks a bathtub edge that’s slippery with soap.

Besides, I think that the very attractive women are probably bored with the attention that men give them, so if you *don’t *do that, you are different and more interesting since you don’t have to try so hard.

Dude, it doesn’t take a rocket she-scientist to figure out I’m different. And a rocket she-scientist will do better than thinking I must be more interesting myself simply because I’m not putting effort in my interaction with her.

You must have some special status or charisma that means you don’t have to place yourself below a beautiful woman.

I can place myself below an ugly one if I want to. Besides, I’m pretty pretty myself. At any rate, I expect a woman to be able 1) to avoid letting proper lady and gentleman interaction getting too much in her head and make her think she’s boon to mankind (and if she were, she wouldn’t be thinking she is), 2) to react properly and reciprocate. If she isn’t… pasame la tequila.

And if you do give her that attention, you’re nothing special

She’s just failed Logic 101. She’d better ask for a resit. She probably will anyway. They generally do.

• just like all the other men who compliment her and tell her how great she looks.

Looks don’t help her much at Scrabble. Or at not falling asleep when I go off on a historical tangent. Again. Or linguistic tangent. Or whatever tangent. The tangent isn’t always about her looks, although my brain is admittedly quite full of that tangent at the moment.

I’m just saying, which sales technique gives you more confidence in what they’re selling

Their sales techniques don’t give me confidence.

My buying techniques do.

I just think that sometimes influencing the girl so she wouldn’t want to LJBF you takes more time and work beyond the first impression,

That’s precisely what I said. I also said, though not directly, is that if you’re gonna get LJBF’d, then you’d better let it end it now then later. (But let her do the ending, women taking it harder when the man ends the thing.)

so you might as well make as good of a first impression as you can to get your foot in the door.

That actually conflicts with what you said above about not trying to hard, although it’s a soft inconsistency, not a hard one.

And I haven’t developed a line to use if I get LJBF’d. I should think about that.

Dude, last time I was getting LJBF’d I was teleprompting her when she forgot the exact words. That was so funny I could barely stay serious. She was quite thrown off balance too. And yes, she attempted a resit on her Logic 101.

 

[underacloud]

Well, I haven’t heard back from her, so I’m assuming that’s probably that.

Yes, I guess so.

OR…

You could call/message her to follow up. She could be waiting for you to call again, for all you know. Or she could have missed your message. What exactly have you got to lose? At the very least you’ll know either way.

 

[DateAnalysis]

Yes, I guess so.

OR…

You could call/message her to follow up. She could be waiting for you to call again, for all you know. Or she could have missed your message. What exactly have you got to lose? At the very least you’ll know either way.

Nah, no point in prolonging it. I’m speaking from experience.

 

[underacloud]

Nah, no point in prolonging it. I’m speaking from experience.

And your experience has got you to where? Still single…

That’s fine, if you’re not into this girl enough to make the effort of a second phone call, then you’re doing yourself and her a favor by not bothering to pursue it. I hope one day you meet a girl who you think is worth a second call.

I’m not trying to be snide. I really mean that. When you meet that girl, you’d rather risk looking like the most desparate fool in the world than risk missing the opportunity altogether.

 

[DateAnalysis]

And your experience has got you to where? Still single…

That’s fine, if you’re not into this girl enough to make the effort of a second phone call, then you’re doing yourself and her a favor by not bothering to pursue it. I hope one day you meet a girl who you think is worth a second call.

I’m not trying to be snide. I really mean that. When you meet that girl, you’d rather risk looking like the most desparate fool in the world than risk missing the opportunity altogether.

What do you want from me? It’s just one coffee date. Yes, I’ve called girls more than once before, but it was more serious than a single date. Honestly, you shouldn’t be this attached to a girl after just one date. That kind of thinking sends girls running for the hills.

And you keep saying that I’m not that interested in this girl. Do you think you know more about how I feel about this girl than I do? Please do not make assumptions that you don’t know anything about.

 

[underacloud]

What do you want from me? It’s just one coffee date. Yes, I’ve called girls more than once before, but it was more serious than a single date. Honestly, you shouldn’t be this attached to a girl after just one date. That kind of thinking sends girls running for the hills.

And you keep saying that I’m not that interested in this girl. Do you think you know more about how I feel about this girl than I do? Please do not make assumptions that you don’t know anything about.

You posted here asking for advice about your date. Now you take offense at advice offered. I don’t want anything from you, just trying to help someone who asked for advice. Having battled my way through the dating world and found/married my wonderful wife, I thought I might have something to offer.

It doesn’t seem like much of an assumption to say that someone who isn’t prepared to make a follow-up phone call can’t be very interested in a girl. But if I am making a rash assumption about you, and you don’t seem to like assumptions, perhaps you could reflect on the assumption that you are making - the assumption that she isn’t interested because she hasn’t returned your call.

I’ll leave it there. My intention was not to rile you, which I seem to have done and for that I’m sorry. Best wishes.

 

[PatriceA]

What do you want from me? It’s just one coffee date. Yes, I’ve called girls more than once before, but it was more serious than a single date. **Honestly, you shouldn’t be this attached to a girl after just one date. That kind of thinking sends girls running for the hills.
**
And you keep saying that I’m not that interested in this girl. Do you think you know more about how I feel about this girl than I do? Please do not make assumptions that you don’t know anything about.

Nope, you’re wrong. Not for me anyways. I was very impressed that my husband didn’t hide the fact that he was very, very much interested in me from the day I met him.

I think the problem is you keep making assumptions and generalizations about women overall. All you need is ONE girl to build a future with. I think you need to start thinking of each woman you meet and want to date as an individual and less as a member of the opposite sex. We don’t all think alike, act alike. Many of us DO NOT like the way you are approaching dating one of us. Unless, of course, you want a woman that is exactly like all the assumptions you are making, then continue to do exactly what you’ve been doing because you think its worked so well in the past.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Nope, you’re wrong. Not for me anyways. I was very impressed that my husband didn’t hide the fact that he was very, very much interested in me from the day I met him.

I think the problem is you keep making assumptions and generalizations about women overall. All you need is ONE girl to build a future with. I think you need to start thinking of each woman you meet and want to date as an individual and less as a member of the opposite sex. We don’t all think alike, act alike. Many of us DO NOT like the way you are approaching dating one of us. Unless, of course, you want a woman that is exactly like all the assumptions you are making, then continue to do exactly what you’ve been doing because you think its worked so well in the past.

Indeed, and my wife was much the same as you. I was interested (perhaps too interested) from the first minute and it still worked. Women aren’t all the same.

 

[chevalier]

Indeed, and my wife was much the same as you. I was interested (perhaps too interested) from the first minute and it still worked. Women aren’t all the same.

It’s also possible that it just works if the interest is mutual but doesn’t if it’s not, hence the misconception that rejections happen because of being interested.

 

[DateAnalysis]

Now that I think about it, I think she mentioned on the date that she was going to be visiting family in August, but I forget when exactly. If she was on a plane when I called, it would explain my call going straight to VM and the non-response. Perhaps I should’ve been a better listener.

 

[chevalier]

Now that I think about it, I think she mentioned on the date that she was going to be visiting family in August, but I forget when exactly. If she was on a plane when I called, it would explain my call going straight to VM and the non-response. Perhaps I should’ve been a better listener.

A good date is when you listen, she talks. (An 80/20 kind of thing.)

 

[DateAnalysis]

Have a date with her next Satuday! Who’s da man? Booyah!