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AgnosticBoy
Guest
I think the aspect of the mind that leads to much of the debate is ‘consciousness’. Our awareness or consciousness, gives us a sense of separateness from our body. Interestingly, I felt this sense of separation the most when I use to engage in deprivation exercises, like fasting and meditating. I view meditation as a type of sensory deprivation. In those exercises, thoughts and feelings popped into my head uncontrollably, and I felt a strong sense of separateness while watching my bodily reactions to my deprivation while also resisting those reactions.
If there is any spirit world than I honestly believe that consciousness is the bridge between the physical and the spiritual.
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Charlemagne_III
Guest
If consciousness is not a bridge between the physical and the spiritual, what else could it be?
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STT
Guest
Huh?Many things that are true are oddly true.
To an atheist, it is oddly true that the universe had a beginning.
Shades of Genesis 1.
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AgnosticBoy
Guest
I believe that consciousness is the bridge between the two. In the Bible, there is a story about Elijah and Elisha. Elijah was able to see angels but Elisha wasn’t. Elijah prayed for Elisha so that he would also see the angels, and it mentions God opened Elisha’s eyes. I take that to mean that Elisha was brought to a higher level of awareness or consciousness. I often try not to get too deep into metaphysical claims because they are unproven, and are at best, theoretical, but I also believe that we can enhance our awareness naturally (without any spiritual intervention or guides) via meditation and other deprivation exercises.
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STT
Guest
If consciousness is a bridge between spirit and body then the spirit is conscious of the body as well as the body is conscious of the spirit. Do you think that matter is conscious?
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Norwich12
Guest
I agree with the most of the commenters:
The brain is physical and the mind is metaphysical.
I am glad that the conversation has turned to a discussion of the soul.
In my opinion, the brain is temporal and is mind is immortal like the soul.
The brain is physical and the mind is metaphysical.
I am glad that the conversation has turned to a discussion of the soul.
In my opinion, the brain is temporal and is mind is immortal like the soul.
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STT
Guest
I didn’t say so. I said that body should be conscious if consciousness is the bridge between mind and body.
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STT
Guest
You are talking about subconscious mind.
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Exsanguin8
Guest
Is consciousness derivative or is it fundamental? This is what philosopher David Chalmers has dubbed “The Hard Problem”. There are some great discussions available on this topic. Many of these discussions lead into such areas as qualia, etc. and are quite fascinating.
It’s not likely consciousness will ever be exhaustively described in this life. To the Christian, it remains after the brain and the rest of one’s “Earth suit” has long turned to dust. This is, or should be, the only operating principle for the believer. But the search will never really end.
J.T. Fraser said it best:
“Man is driven by aspirations whose goals he cannot hope to reach, yet cannot accept as unreachable.”
It’s not likely consciousness will ever be exhaustively described in this life. To the Christian, it remains after the brain and the rest of one’s “Earth suit” has long turned to dust. This is, or should be, the only operating principle for the believer. But the search will never really end.
J.T. Fraser said it best:
“Man is driven by aspirations whose goals he cannot hope to reach, yet cannot accept as unreachable.”
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Exsanguin8
Guest
Then there’s epiphenomenalism.
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Norwich12
Guest
Exsanguin8: the best example of QUALIA. is
St. Bonaventure’s Journey of the Mind into God, Chapter 2.
I will explain tomorrow.
Thanks for joining the discussion about the immortal Mind.
St. Bonaventure’s Journey of the Mind into God, Chapter 2.
I will explain tomorrow.
Thanks for joining the discussion about the immortal Mind.
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Norwich12
Guest
ENGLSH OXFORD DICTIONARY:
QUALIA “The internal and subjective component of sense perceptions, arising from stimulation of the senses by phenomena.”
JOURNEY OF THE MIND INTO GOD by St. Bonanventure.
Chapter 2: “The Vision of God through His Imprints upon the World as we see it.”
Page 3: “So a human, called the microcosm, has five senses, like five gates, through
which enters into the soul the perception of all things.”
QUALIA “The internal and subjective component of sense perceptions, arising from stimulation of the senses by phenomena.”
JOURNEY OF THE MIND INTO GOD by St. Bonanventure.
Chapter 2: “The Vision of God through His Imprints upon the World as we see it.”
Page 3: “So a human, called the microcosm, has five senses, like five gates, through
which enters into the soul the perception of all things.”
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Exsanguin8
Guest
Thank you for the reference.
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ynotzap
Guest
The brain is a physical entity. Has any surgeon ever discovered and “idea” or a “thought”? Has any empirical scientist explained the power of self-automation, intellectual reflection, looking back on ones thoughts, explained the real composition of an emotion? Can they explain how one can arrive at a truth that is above sensual experience? Can they explain spiritual phenomena? These questions can be answered by the study of scholastic metaphysics which is foreign to modern medicine, and empirical science. The answer to your question is yes, in a major way. Just a short presentation, the intelligence of man is a spiritual faculty designed to understand things, to acquire truth. (is truth physical in it’s essence, nature?) It is recognized as a power of the soul, the immanent principle of life in a human. The soul is that which makes the human body a human body, it is called the “form” of the body. The human body is composed of matter and spirit. The soul is spirit, immaterial. The soul is extrinsically dependent upon the body, meaning that in it’s present state it depends on matter because it is a union of matter and spirit, but it can exist apart from matter when it can no longer function in union with matter because of deterioration(physical). There is more but this will give you some background to understanding your question.
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Aloysium
Guest
I understand the statement above. That understanding is an internal part of “me”.
Would this understanding be classified under the category “qualia”?
It would seem that all sensory perceptions are “processed”, that their shape, however basic, involves cognition. Everything we know involves complex processes that bring about experience. The structuring of experience involves the physical and mental realities of our being participants in a world that is both physical and psychological in nature. A third “dimension”, would be that of spiritual reality which involves our existence as relational beings. We are self-others even to ourselves, to the structure that shapes our consciousness, that spark between two mysteries.
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Norwich12
Guest
Thanks ynotzap and Aloysium. I am someone without formal training in
Theology and Philosophy.
What is the relationship between the Mind and the Soul?
Theology and Philosophy.
What is the relationship between the Mind and the Soul?
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ynotzap
Guest
The mind per se is the faculty of intelligence. a power of the soul, not the brain, although there is an extrinsic dependence of this faculty on the brain to provide it with sensory data from which it abstracts mental impressions called the ideas. Instead of having a tree in the brain ( a physical impossibility) we have the mental representation of the tree. Quite a wonderful phenomena! A human demonstrates reasoning, which is an action, and every action demonstrates a source of that action, so the soul is the source of mental activity, in this case reasoning, comprehension, understanding. There is also the action of choosing called volition, the source of this action again is the soul with it’s faculty of will. The human will and intelligence are both faculties of the soul, the source of life in the human body.
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