Cohabitating---well?

[dje101]

Priest or Deacon.

Also you might have to pay for whatever prep is required by your diocese. Retreats, focus test, NFP materials, etc. Oh, and most church buildings charge for their use, but you could always get married during Mass.

Though if you are really in financial need these will be waived.

so what usually consists of a “traditional catholic wedding”?

 

[joanofarc2008]

so what usually consists of a “traditional catholic wedding”?

OK - that depends on where she is getting her dress, shoes, purse, etc. But honestly - you have not even been through RCIA yet. I would suggest if you are going to become Catholic you would wait to become Catholic first and then get married - so that you will have a better idea of what marriage is as a vocational Sacrament. Otherwise you will not even be able to join her in Eucharist at your wedding Mass. This does not seem like your priorities are in line.

As far as cohabitating here is the actual teaching on the sin of scandal - it falls under the same commandment as murder:

II. RESPECT FOR THE DIGNITY OF PERSONS

Respect for the souls of others: scandal

2284 Scandal is an attitude or behavior which leads another to do evil. The person who gives scandal becomes his neighbor’s tempter. He damages virtue and integrity; he may even draw his brother into spiritual death. Scandal is a grave offense if by deed or omission another is deliberately led into a grave offense.

2285 Scandal takes on a particular gravity by reason of the authority of those who cause it or the weakness of those who are scandalized. It prompted our Lord to utter this curse: "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."86 Scandal is grave when given by those who by nature or office are obliged to teach and educate others. Jesus reproaches the scribes and Pharisees on this account: he likens them to wolves in sheep’s clothing.87

2286 Scandal can be provoked by laws or institutions, by fashion or opinion.

Therefore, they are guilty of scandal who establish laws or social structures leading to the decline of morals and the corruption of religious practice, or to "social conditions that, intentionally or not, make Christian conduct and obedience to the Commandments difficult and practically impossible."88 This is also true of business leaders who make rules encouraging fraud, teachers who provoke their children to anger,89 or manipulators of public opinion who turn it away from moral values.

2287 Anyone who uses the power at his disposal in such a way that it leads others to do wrong becomes guilty of scandal and responsible for the evil that he has directly or indirectly encouraged. "Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come!"90

Basically by engaging in behavior that looks to be immoral - cohabitating (which looks like fornication) you can cause weakness to others in the community to fornicate thereby injuring their souls and causing death to their spirit. That is blunt but there it is. God bless.

 

[dje101]

OK - that depends on where she is getting her dress, shoes, purse, etc. But honestly - you have not even been through RCIA yet. I would suggest if you are going to become Catholic you would wait to become Catholic first and then get married - so that you will have a better idea of what marriage is as a vocational Sacrament. Otherwise you will not even be able to join her in Eucharist at your wedding Mass. This does not seem like your priorities are in line.

cut

For real buddy? You can say that I don’t have my priorities in line by me simply asking what consists of a “traditional Catholic wedding”? You think that I don’t KNOW that I need and WANT to accept the Eucharist with her? You don’t think that I KNOW that in order to receive the Eucharist, I need to be confirmed into the Catholic Church? You think that I don’t know that I have to complete RCIA first???

Thanks for your…uh…GUIDANCE and SUPPORT there champ.

 

[dje101]

So, I will restate my question.

What does a “traditional Catholic wedding” consist of?

Is it like a secular/protestant wedding where the bride and groom go up, say quick vows, and are done in like 20 minutes, then off to the reception? Or is it a whole mass?

Thanks for any answer I receive

 

[joanofarc2008]

So, I will restate my question.

What does a “traditional Catholic wedding” consist of?

Is it like a secular/protestant wedding where the bride and groom go up, say quick vows, and are done in like 20 minutes, then off to the reception? Or is it a whole mass?

Thanks for any answer I receive

OK Traditional Catholic wedding depends on a couple of things -

a) Whether or not both parties are Catholic or not? Lets say in this case since you stated you were going to be starting RCIA in the summer that you both will be able to receive Eucharist at your nuptials.

So the traditional Catholic wedding for you would be a Mass. This would include a Liturgy of the Word, exchanging of the Vows, exchanging of the Rings, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Now in order for a couple to make these vows they are promising basically three things - fidelity, permanence, and openess to life. When the intent to permanence is investigated in annulments the question about cohabitation is asked because it is directly linked.

I guess as far as cost - it really depends on you and how many guests - ours was around 75 guests, with reception, plus honeymoon to Costa Rica under 20K. However that being said it did not make a darn bit of difference since only one of us knew what vows were.

 

[RosaryFan]

So, I will restate my question.

What does a “traditional Catholic wedding” consist of?

Is it like a secular/protestant wedding where the bride and groom go up, say quick vows, and are done in like 20 minutes, then off to the reception? Or is it a whole mass?

Thanks for any answer I receive

You can either do a whole Mass where your vows are exchanged before the liturgy of the Eucharist, or you can do just a prayer service with the exchange of vows. Most people do an entire Mass. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever been to just a prayer service wedding, although my parents didn’t have an entire Mass, but I wasn’t there.

So, traditionally, it would be within the Mass. The entire Mass and vow exchange, from beginning to end would take about an hour and 15 mins., give or take.

Hope that was helpful.

 

[Jesus_123]

+God’s . . . Holy :bible1: Word . . . is also very clearly against what is being considered in the original poster’s subject for this thread . . . not only on the moral grounds that . . .**fornication (sex outside of marriage) is a mortal sin **. . . but to so live definitely creates an outward scandalous appearance of evil . . .

:bible1:
"Abstain from all appearance of evil."1 Thessalonians 5:22

To be married by a priest you and your bride will normally be required to undergo premarital counseling . . . *many of your questions will be answered during this time of preparation * . . . and as you approach the Sacrament of Holy Marriage . . . plus entry into our Holy Mother Church . . . perhaps it might be very helpful to peacefully meditate and understand that following in the **Holy Footsteps **of our **Lord **contains many blessings . . . *along with disciplines of body, soul and spirit *. . . as we are formed more and more into the God’s extraordinary holy image . . . and leave the wayward ways of this immoral world we live in behind . . . below is a wonderful exercise in prayer which will help form the soul of God’s child to become more like the **Lord Whom **we love . . .

+

Prayer for the
Seven Gifts of the Holy Spirit
O Lord Jesus Christ, Who, before ascending into heaven, did promise to send the Holy Spirit to finish Your Work in the souls of Your apostles and disciples - - - deign to grant the same Holy Spirit to me, to perfect in my soul the Work of Your Grace and Your Love. Grant me **
the Spirit** of Wisdom - that I may not be attached to the perishable things of this world, but aspire only after the things that are eternal.

• the Spirit of Understanding - to enlighten my mind with the light of Your divine truth.
• the Spirit of Counsel - that I may ever choose the surest way of pleasing God and gaining heaven.
• the Spirit of Fortitude - that I may bear my cross with You, and that I may overcome with courage all the obstacles that oppose my salvation.
• the Spirit of Knowledge - that I may know God and know myself, and grow perfect in the science of the Saints.
• **the Spirit **of Piety - that I may find the service of God sweet and amiable.
• the Spirit of Fear - that I may be filled with a loving reverence towards God and may avoid anything that may displease Him.
  Mark me,** dear Lord with the sign of Your true disciples, and animate me in all things with Your Spirit. Amen.
  
  ​
  ​
  - The Riehle Foundation
  The Gold Book of Prayers​
  ​
  ​

:bible1:
"And unto man He said,
Behold, the
fear
of the LORD,
that is
wisdom;
and to depart from evil is
understanding.
Job 28:28
+

 

[dje101]

OK Traditional Catholic wedding depends on a couple of things -

a) Whether or not both parties are Catholic or not? Lets say in this case since you stated you were going to be starting RCIA in the summer that you both will be able to receive Eucharist at your nuptials.

So the traditional Catholic wedding for you would be a Mass. This would include a Liturgy of the Word, exchanging of the Vows, exchanging of the Rings, and the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

Now in order for a couple to make these vows they are promising basically three things - fidelity, permanence, and openess to life. When the intent to permanence is investigated in annulments the question about cohabitation is asked because it is directly linked.

I guess as far as cost - it really depends on you and how many guests - ours was around 75 guests, with reception, plus honeymoon to Costa Rica under 20K. However that being said it did not make a darn bit of difference since only one of us knew what vows were.

Thank you very much joanofarc2008.

I would like to apologize to you for my un-Christian remarks in my previous post to you. No matter what “reasoning” I think I might have had for my sarcastic and rude comments, that is not something that Jesus would have wanted me to say. I understand that you WERE just trying to help me out. Thank you very much. I am truly sorry.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Thank you very much joanofarc2008.

I would like to apologize to you for my un-Christian remarks in my previous post to you. No matter what “reasoning” I think I might have had for my sarcastic and rude comments, that is not something that Jesus would have wanted me to say. I understand that you WERE just trying to help me out. Thank you very much. I am truly sorry.

No problem - it happens a lot on internet forums. Sometimes what we would not normally say and do in public face to face we do and we also forget that when are reading our messages before sending we often read them with a softer tone than what they are received. Black and white messages are often toneless.

 

[dje101]

Well, got some good news.

Thought it over between last night and this evening, and finally spoke with my girlfriend about it. We both agreed to cancel moving out this summer and instead use the money that would’ve gone out on bills to save up for a wedding, after which time we’ll move in together.

Thanks for your help everyone.

God bless.

 

[GraceDK]

Well, got some good news.

Thought it over between last night and this evening, and finally spoke with my girlfriend about it. We both agreed to cancel moving out this summer and instead use the money that would’ve gone out on bills to save up for a wedding, after which time we’ll move in together.

Thanks for your help everyone.

God bless.

Good for you

I speak from experience: When you sow in justice you will reap peace and joy. There is a reward in doing the right thing

 

[Michael_VPV]

Much of the good comment has already been said well.

This has been said, but putting it another way, if you were a recovering alcoholic, would you get a job in a bar? no. Drinking is not necessarily a sin but the same applies. It is a really good idea to remove the conditions in which sin can happen, where that’s possible. That is one good reason for not living together.

Here is another one, pragmatic, and not directly related to sin. The rules we follow are also so often interpretable as sensible advice for living, and this is a clear example.

Before you are married, the relationship you have is not a contract ( legal or spiritual). Either of you can leave, and either of you has the right to make demands or concessions. There is a certain amount of skin in the game, but by definition, a non-marital relationship is not permanent. The terms are different.
When you marry, all that changes. It becomes permanent and it becomes the most important human relationship in your life, one that you will commit to upholding, together, for ever. I’m stating the obvious because of what I’m about to say.

In the pre-marital state, living together can potentially lead to a lot more conflict - you are both only in the relationship as long as it suits you, and the focus of need is essentially upon the self. Living in the same space has a lot more scope for conflict. Your needs, her needs, you are much more lkely to argue over the bills, how to spend time, and bargain, and impinge on each others’ freedom. This is partly why long term cohabitants, even with a stated intention of permanence, don’t tend to last the course - I think the % still together and unmarried after twenty years is in the low single figure percentages.

Once married, your joint focus become what is best for the pair of you - for the family. Decisions are made on that basis. On those terms, living together is a lot more harmonious. Married men enjoy better mental health than cohabiting men. Look up studies on people who live together before marriage and those who don’t. For those who don’t, the marriage is more successful in terms of more of them survive the course. so NOT living together beforehand makes for a happier marriage. Just my opinion.

 

[joanofarc2008]

Well, got some good news.

Thought it over between last night and this evening, and finally spoke with my girlfriend about it. We both agreed to cancel moving out this summer and instead use the money that would’ve gone out on bills to save up for a wedding, after which time we’ll move in together.

Thanks for your help everyone.

God bless.

I think this will make you a lot happier - and the wedding will be much nicer - plus that down payment for a house - which by the way if you have the credit scores to do it - it is a buyers market.

 

[Jesus_123]

+You and your bride-to-be have made a wonderful, sound and very healthy decision dje101 . . . it brought into remembrance the little portion of Sacred Scripture below . . .

:bible1:
“And Jesus advanced in wisdom, and age, and grace with God **and men.” Luke 2:52 **

Pondering on the . . . *very human *. . . subject question . . . I am reminded of the beautiful portion of Scriptural guidance below . . .

:bible1::“And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy **heart **, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the First Commandment. And the Second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other Commandment greater than these.” - Matthew 12:30-31​

Doctrinely based upon the foundation of the above portion of Sacred :bible1: Scripture . . . as Catholic Christians we are taught that there are three kinds of love imparted to the soul of man by God our Gracious Heavenly Father. . . Who is wholly holy Love Himself and mankind was created in His image . . . *able to love perfectly *. . . before the free will falling from grace through the deliberate transgression (sin) of Adam which cast all of mankind into disordered relationships with both God and spouses and all his fellow men, and the harmony of man’s life in relation to love in all its aspects was tragically destroyed and perverted and cast into grave disorder and the sinful lustful . . . self . . . of man became the center of mankind’s disordered distorted love relationships, rather than centering on our Wonderful God and His purpose and source of life and health through the true nature and harmony of real genuine holy love in all its three (3) aspects.

Doctrinal Teaching on Love:

1. **** Agape - God’s infinite love for mankind and man’s reciprocal love (which falls under the First Commandment as related above) and
2. Philial - love of one’s fellow-man/neighbor and
3. Eros - intimate love exclusively created for relationship between man and woman as spouses within marriage . . .

*(both of last fall in the category of the **Second Commandment ***as related above) . . .​

The marvelous God fearing :nun1: Benedictine nuns :nun2: in the European convent . . . through whom **He **graced my soul with a considerable portion of my education . . . have a discipline they both practiced and which was well taught called the . . . Holy Discipline of Detachment . . . Essentially it is that genuine love is a CHOICE . . . not just emotion . . . which emotion can carry us away is all kinds of “not marvelous” directions if not disciplined by God’s Love with caution and reason. One is to discipline and detach ones **heart ** and emotions from anything . . . *people, places and/or things *. . . that might take precedence over our heart’s first love. . . which should always be God and His Ways . . . and if one’s **first love **IS God . . . *and one’s soul endeavors to stay in prayerful constant communion with **Him ***. . . then healthy well-ordered love for one’s mate/children/fellow man/neighbor, etc. . . . can . . . and will . . . flow and follow . . . *in a wonderfully blest holy orderly fashion *. . . and as the Reverend Mother Emmanuel encouraged all her nuns:

“Leave a little leeway for the graces.
It’s a never-ending affair trying to be good
but never forget
when God orders,
He gives.”

. . . all for Jesus+
. . . thank You Blessed Lord+
. . . thank You Sweet Spirit of our Holy God+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Mary+
. . . thank you Holy Mother Church+
​

 

[thequeen]

I don’t understand how living together is sinful. I understand premarital sex, but why just living together?

Because even if the two of you were not having sex people would assume you were because that is what it would seem like

 

[thequeen]

Well, got some good news.

Thought it over between last night and this evening, and finally spoke with my girlfriend about it. We both agreed to cancel moving out this summer and instead use the money that would’ve gone out on bills to save up for a wedding, after which time we’ll move in together.

Thanks for your help everyone.

God bless.

Good move there Im sure you will be very happy as a married couple will be praying that you complete rcia i am a convert myself and congratulations upon your upcoming wedding

 

[BrushedByAngels]

Well, got some good news.

Thought it over between last night and this evening, and finally spoke with my girlfriend about it. We both agreed to cancel moving out this summer and instead use the money that would’ve gone out on bills to save up for a wedding, after which time we’ll move in together.

Thanks for your help everyone.

God bless.

I am so happy to read your post! I think that is an excellent idea. If I may suggest, have the nuptial mass. It is absolutely beautiful and sacred in my opinion.