Cohabitation and family visits

[deSalingAway]

My wife and I are married (redundant) with two small children. Her parents live in a distant city and their son lives with them, as does his pregnant girlfriend. We try to visit once every two months or so, but this cohabitation is a recent development. My father-in-law feels that if he tells his son they cannot cohabitate, that the son will not let them see their grandchild.

My wife and I are obedient Catholics, but obedient assumes you know the correct path to take. We have a visit planned next month, and have not talked about the logistics of this new development.

I feel as though staying with my in-laws when we visit would give our children the idea that the cohabitation is acceptable, and also give our in-laws the idea that we approved as well. The appropriate solution I think would be to stay either at a motel or at another relative’s home.

Am I off the mark? I could really use some advice.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Cohabitation aside stay somewhere else. You have a household of 4, they are a household of 4 (soon to be 5) and out of these 8 people one is pregnant and two are small children. It seems to me that everyone would be more comfortable if you stayed in a hotel. (Especially if you do this every 2 months…yeesh!)

In fact, what I just stated would be the perfect excuse for you to give about why you are staying in a hotel.

 

[deSalingAway]

It seems to me that everyone would be more comfortable if you stayed in a hotel.

The house is big enough, and there are enough beds for everyone.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

The house is big enough, and there are enough beds for everyone.

Oh darn! I thought you had an easy out.

I don’t think staying somewhere else in protest of who your in-laws open their home to is really the best idea, but if that’s what you and your wife think is right just be prepared to deal with the fallout that could result. Speaking of your wife how does she feel about it? As it’s her family that’s very important.

 

[Cristiano]

Cohabitation aside stay somewhere else. You have a household of 4, they are a household of 4 (soon to be 5) and out of these 8 people one is pregnant and two are small children. It seems to me that everyone would be more comfortable if you stayed in a hotel. (Especially if you do this every 2 months…yeesh!)

In fact, what I just stated would be the perfect excuse for you to give about why you are staying in a hotel.

I think that your suggestion kills to birds with one stone, moral teaching to the children and practicality. I also think that, in this specific case, staying in the house is not simply showing acceptance of sin, the girl is pregnant and I think that probably the grandparents are choosing the lesser of two evils.

 

[deSalingAway]

I think that your suggestion kills to birds with one stone, moral teaching to the children and practicality. I also think that, in this specific case, staying in the house is not simply showing acceptance of sin, the girl is pregnant and I think that probably the grandparents are choosing the lesser of two evils.

The pregnant girlfriend has a family in town, but she and her boyfriend are choosing to shack up. If they didn’t she’d still be staying with her mom and her boyfriend. She wouldn’t be out on the street.

 

[Cristiano]

The pregnant girlfriend has a family in town, but she and her boyfriend are choosing to shack up. If they didn’t she’d still be staying with her mom and her boyfriend. She wouldn’t be out on the street.

Either way it looks like the two future parents are not able to live by themselves and they are probably planning to rise the child together. I understand that you do not like the situation and you do not have to get involved with it, just stay in a hotel and things are going to be simpler.

 

[deSalingAway]

@BEL ~ your “easy out” remark presupposes that you yourself believe that we shouldn’t stay with the family.

It’s not a “protest”, I believe it’s avoidance of sin by omission, the omission being not saying/doing anything to protect my children from exposure to such lifestyles.

The primary purpose for not staying with them is to protect my children. If they see that it’s okay to stay with a family which includes a cohabitating couple, what does that tell them about cohabitation? “We don’t approve, but but it’s okay if they keep it in the other room.” That’s not something I want my kids exposed to.

The secondary effect is ceasing to enable my in-laws from allowing sinful lifestyle in their home, at least for the time during which we visit. I’m not trying to control my in-laws, but again, I’m trying to protect my children. If my in-laws wish to allow such activity while we’re there, we cannot stay there.

Would it be any different if instead of cohabitation, someone were doing drugs in the other room?

 

[Cristiano]

@BEL ~ your “easy out” remark presupposes that you yourself believe that we shouldn’t stay with the family.

It’s not a “protest”, I believe it’s avoidance of sin by omission, the omission being not saying/doing anything to protect my children from exposure to such lifestyles.

The primary purpose for not staying with them is to protect my children. If they see that it’s okay to stay with a family which includes a cohabitating couple, what does that tell them about cohabitation? “We don’t approve, but but it’s okay if they keep it in the other room.” That’s not something I want my kids exposed to.

The secondary effect is ceasing to enable my in-laws from allowing sinful lifestyle in their home, at least for the time during which we visit. I’m not trying to control my in-laws, but again, I’m trying to protect my children. If my in-laws wish to allow such activity while we’re there, we cannot stay there.

Would it be any different if instead of cohabitation, someone were doing drugs in the other room?

I honestly think that you are missing part of the picture but I ma not sure which part exactly. If I were you I would talk to my wife and see how she sees the situation and then decide together. I would not use internet forum comments to make your moral argument with her, it is a loosing proposition. Just speak from your heart and see how things go. Personally I would stay in a hotel but my preference is based on so many factors that might not apply to you, I would stay in a hotel even if the two were married.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

@BEL ~ your “easy out” remark presupposes that you yourself believe that we shouldn’t stay with the family.

It’s not a “protest”, I believe it’s avoidance of sin by omission, the omission being not saying/doing anything to protect my children from exposure to such lifestyles.

The primary purpose for not staying with them is to protect my children. If they see that it’s okay to stay with a family which includes a cohabitating couple, what does that tell them about cohabitation? “We don’t approve, but but it’s okay if they keep it in the other room.” That’s not something I want my kids exposed to.

The secondary effect is ceasing to enable my in-laws from allowing sinful lifestyle in their home, at least for the time during which we visit. I’m not trying to control my in-laws, but again, I’m trying to protect my children. If my in-laws wish to allow such activity while we’re there, we cannot stay there.

Would it be any different if instead of cohabitation, someone were doing drugs in the other room?

It sounds like you have your mind made up.

Actually, I do think that you should stay there, but it doesn’t matter what I think. I was just trying to give fair advice on how to not hurt feelings while not going against your beliefs.

My advice stands though. Talk to your wife and get her thoughts on issues regarding her family before asking strangers on the internet.

Full Disclosure: I live with my fiance, so obviously I view it a bit differently than drug use. If you want to debate the morality or wisdom of cohabitation feel free to PM me. But here I’m just trying to give advice that keeps you from violating your morals and keeps the peace.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I honestly think that you are missing part of the picture but I ma not sure which part exactly. If I were you I would talk to my wife and see how she sees the situation and then decide together. I would not use internet forum comments to make your moral argument with her, it is a loosing proposition. Just speak from your heart and see how things go. Personally I would stay in a hotel but my preference is based on so many factors that might not apply to you, I would stay in a hotel even if the two were married.

I wholeheartedly agree with this.

OP, you really need to hash this out with your wife.

And like Cristiano, I would be staying in a hotel regardless of who’s married, who’s not, and what’s happening behind closed doors. Unless your inlaws have a mansion, that’s just too many people under one roof for me, even if it’s just for a couple of days.

Luna

 

[deSalingAway]

Again, my wife and I are obedient Catholics. We don’t pick and choose what parts of Catholic teaching we wish to follow, as we wish to follow all of it.

I know in my heart what I want, but I guess I am looking for a statement of teaching of the Catholic Church to help articulate my position or correct it if my position is errant.

Considering this forum is called “Catholic Answers”, I thought I’d find actual Catholic answers, not worldly answers under the guise of Catholicism.

As for the cohabitation debate, Catholic teaching is clear and steadfast. There are plenty of Catholic resources and I assume you (BEL) know the teaching of the Church, but have chosen to follow your own path. I don’t know what there is to debate seeing as how cohabitation by a romantically involved, unmarried couple with a sexual relationship is objectively disordered (as is any sexual relationship by any unmarried couple). There would be nothing to debate.

I’m not at all trying to be offensive, nor am I judging (which would be to say you’re going to hell for your actions, which I am not at all in any position to make that assertion). I am simply stating that your (name removed by moderator)ut is not productive in this conversation and is counter to the information for which I seek.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and give your advice. I know you meant well in doing so. God bless you and have a wonderful day!

 

[bonvivantHermit]

You aren’t housing the couple- you would be staying w/ family that does. Don’t know how old your children are, but would they even know? And isn’t this unmarried woman a good example of doing what’s right despite the circumstances? Granted they are unmarried and “living together” but they seem, from your post, to be going in the right direction.

You will visit your family, the kids will know everyone lives there already. This young couple needs support and love. A kind word and good example your family in the home maybe good for them.

 

[Cristiano]

Again, my wife and I are obedient Catholics. We don’t pick and choose what parts of Catholic teaching we wish to follow, as we wish to follow all of it.

I know in my heart what I want, but I guess I am looking for a statement of teaching of the Catholic Church to help articulate my position or correct it if my position is errant.

Considering this forum is called “Catholic Answers”, I thought I’d find actual Catholic answers, not worldly answers under the guise of Catholicism.

As for the cohabitation debate, Catholic teaching is clear and steadfast. There are plenty of Catholic resources and I assume you (BEL) know the teaching of the Church, but have chosen to follow your own path. I don’t know what there is to debate seeing as how cohabitation by a romantically involved, unmarried couple with a sexual relationship is objectively disordered (as is any sexual relationship by any unmarried couple). There would be nothing to debate.

I’m not at all trying to be offensive, nor am I judging (which would be to say you’re going to hell for your actions, which I am not at all in any position to make that assertion). I am simply stating that your (name removed by moderator)ut is not productive in this conversation and is counter to the information for which I seek.

Thank you for taking the time to reply and give your advice. I know you meant well in doing so. God bless you and have a wonderful day!

So you are telling us that you already know the answer, you are not providing sufficient information and the one that you provide is biased. Why are you here?

For her part, the Church in the United States is called, in season and out of season, to proclaim a Gospel which not only proposes unchanging moral truths but proposes them precisely as the key to human happiness and social prospering.

Pope Benedict XVI

 

[deSalingAway]

So you are telling us that you already know the answer, you are not providing sufficient information and the one that you provide is biased. Why are you here?

I’m here looking for some official document on Catholic moral teaching and the explanation for if/why/what an obedient Catholic should do in this instance.

Maybe I picked the wrong forum. I thought I would get Catholic answers as in answers based in Catholic teaching from people who practice and follow all parts of Catholicism. Am I in the wrong place?

 

[DhuAlQarnayn]

There is no sin in staying in a household which also houses a cohabiting couple. It is not your business to decide whom your in-laws allow to stay at their house, and you have no part in the sin. You may choose to stay in a hotel for any one of a number of reasons, but you are not committing a sin if you choose to stay at the house. In any case, the hotel is bound to have more cohabiting couples than your in-laws’ house.

 

[Cristiano]

I’m here looking for some official document on Catholic moral teaching and the explanation for if/why/what an obedient Catholic should do in this instance.

Maybe I picked the wrong forum. I thought I would get Catholic answers as in answers based in Catholic teaching from people who practice and follow all parts of Catholicism. Am I in the wrong place?

Sorry for being snappy. I think that your problem, like a lot of other moral problems, is associated with a lot of other factors that while sinful might not be determining the morality of your actions. In a forum like this the information that you provide is not really sufficient. You are supposed to make a prudential judgement and you can do that only with a well formed conscience. The Church will not provide a document to cover cases like these because the variables involved are too many and no document can cover all the scenarios with different degrees of sinfulness. This is something that you need to discuss with a spiritual director because the morality of a behavior can be based on both objective (acts and circumstances) and subjective factors (intentions and circumstances).

 

[BlueEyedLady]

So you say you’re an obedient Catholic, but yet you seem to have made up your own mind about that the church teaches and now you’re looking for justification to support your stance, and it doesn’t seem that the church holds the teaching you’re looking for. That’s not obedience. Obedience would be seeking the teaching before making a decision, not after.

Furthermore, Jesus ate with sinners. That didn’t imply his support for the sin. I don’t really see a difference between eating with sinners and staying under the same roof as them.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I’m here looking for some official document on Catholic moral teaching and the explanation for if/why/what an obedient Catholic should do in this instance.

Maybe I picked the wrong forum. I thought I would get Catholic answers as in answers based in Catholic teaching from people who practice and follow all parts of Catholicism. Am I in the wrong place?

How would any of us know who’s following all parts of Catholicism on an anonymous Internet forum?

The only thing any of us knows for certain is that others have taken time out of their lives to give you advice as best as they know how. In your original post you did, after all, ask for advice…

If you don’t like the advice, feel free to ignore it. If this matter means a lot to you, and it obviously does, you and your wife should be taking it up with your priest or spiritual advisor anyway. But to ask for advice, get advice, and then complain about it or those who bothered to answer you, is churlish.

Luna

 

[Rich_C]

I’m here looking for some official document on Catholic moral teaching and the explanation for if/why/what an obedient Catholic should do in this instance.

Maybe I picked the wrong forum. I thought I would get Catholic answers as in answers based in Catholic teaching from people who practice and follow all parts of Catholicism. Am I in the wrong place?

dSA,

You’re asking lay people on the Internet for advice; you’re not always going to get a good answer. I skimmed *Casti Canubi *for an answer for you but couldn’t find one.

Do you know a good priest you could ask?