Cohabitation is fornication

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rayne89 said:
TrueLove just to clarify: you are now saying just being house mates, just loving together without any sexual involvement is not cohabitation and therefore not fornication? Am I correct?
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I said co-habitation I did not say living arrangements.
I learned that co-habitation does not include siblings, but there are some cases. :ehh:
anyway
If they are siblings I did **not say it would be co-habitation, I said it would just be improper and it could potentially lead to temptation which it could in some cases.
I corrected myself after talking to some more theologians about it, who said that unless **the person/s were already inclined to such habits and thoughts of impurity, there would be no problem in fact if the siblings were virtuous and **living there catholic faith **it would be a witness to all who visited them. Now if the siblings were party animals living a fast paced lifestyle and constantly had friends staying over, then that would be improper and immodest and could very certainly lead to temptation.
Now I would very much like to bring the topic back onto co-habitation being fornication and just drop the siblings topic for now.

God bless
 
truelove_88 said:
I said co-habitation I did not say living arrangements.
I learned that co-habitation does not include siblings, but there are some cases. :ehh:
anyway
If they are siblings I did **not say it would be co-habitation, I said it would just be improper and it could potentially lead to temptation which it could in some cases.
I corrected myself after talking to some more theologians about it, who said that unless **the person/s were already inclined to such habits and thoughts of impurity, there would be no problem in fact if the siblings were virtuous and **living there catholic faith **it would be a witness to all who visited them. Now if the siblings were party animals living a fast paced lifestyle and constantly had friends staying over, then that would be improper and immodest and could very certainly lead to temptation.
Now I would very much like to bring the topic back onto co-habitation being fornication and just drop the siblings topic for now.

God bless
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I wasn’t references the siblings thing. I think we’re all on the same page about that now. Non-relatives living in the same house in a non-sexual relationship, would that be cohabitation?
 
truelove_88 said:
I said co-habitation I did not say living arrangements.
I learned that co-habitation does not include siblings, but there are some cases. :ehh:
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Rayne’s question did not even bring up siblings. :confused: But she asked about other room-mate situations not involving sex ( not fornicating).
 
rayne89 said:
Non-relatives living in the same house in a non-sexual relationship, would that be cohabitation?
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For a man and a woman to live together outside of the Sacrament of Marriage is co-habitation period.

I believe that Truelove has already explained this quite well. Yes for unmarried people of the opposite sex, non-related, to live under the same roof, in the same house, would be co-habitation/fornication, as Truelove very eloquently put it, they say fallen human nature is just that fallen.
This is my (name removed by moderator)ut
For one it is very improper and immoral for a girl and boy who aren’t married to live together, two it would be extremely immodest, three it would be an **occasion of sin **period.
It seems to me that we are trying to find loop holes in the Teaching of Holy Mother Church, by creating scenarios that were not acceptable 20 years ago and are not acceptable today but are happening just the same.
The church looks at the situation the same now as it did before, this is a teaching that will not change over time just because it has become a norm among the masses. That is not how Holy Mother Church works.
I hope that this will help to make things a bit more understandable.

God Bless
sensum_fidei
 
rayne89 said:
TrueLove just to clarify: you are now saying just being house mates, just living together without any sexual involvement is not cohabitation and therefore not fornication? Am I correct?
Click to expand...
truelove_88 said:
I said co-habitation I did not say living arrangements.
I learned that co-habitation does not include siblings, but there are some cases. :ehh:
anyway
If they are siblings I did **not say it would be co-habitation, I said it would just be improper and it could potentially lead to temptation which it could in some cases.
I corrected myself after talking to some more theologians about it, who said that unless **the person/s were already inclined to such habits and thoughts of impurity, there would be no problem in fact if the siblings were virtuous and **living there catholic faith **it would be a witness to all who visited them. Now if the siblings were party animals living a fast paced lifestyle and constantly had friends staying over, then that would be improper and immodest and could very certainly lead to temptation.
Now I would very much like to bring the topic back onto co-habitation being fornication and just drop the siblings topic for now.

God bless
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TrueLove88,

Are you not able to answer a direct question directly. You have been asked this and similar questions numerous times. Each time your answer obfuscates the issue more. If I did not know better (and I actually don’t) it almost seems you are doing this intentionally.

So please answer this question. You should be able to answer this question with a single word.

In your mind do you equate co-habitation with sexual relations?
 
sensum_fidei said:
For a man and a woman to live together outside of the Sacrament of Marriage is co-habitation period.

I believe that Truelove has already explained this quite well. Yes for unmarried people of the opposite sex, non-related, to live under the same roof, in the same house, would be co-habitation/fornication, as Truelove very eloquently put it, they say fallen human nature is just that fallen.
This is my (name removed by moderator)ut
For one it is very improper and immoral for a girl and boy who aren’t married to live together, two it would be extremely immodest, three it would be an **occasion of sin **period.
It seems to me that we are trying to find loop holes in the Teaching of Holy Mother Church, by creating scenarios that were not acceptable 20 years ago and are not acceptable today but are happening just the same.
The church looks at the situation the same now as it did before, this is a teaching that will not change over time just because it has become a norm among the masses. That is not how Holy Mother Church works.
I hope that this will help to make things a bit more understandable.

God Bless
sensum_fidei
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I’m not trying to find loopholes. First off I’m already married so this doesn’t even apply to my life (and no we did not live together before hand). The definition of fornication from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is:
**2353 *Fornication ***is carnal union between an unmarried man and an unmarried woman. It is gravely contrary to the dignity of persons and of human sexuality which is naturally ordered to the good of spouses and the generation and education of children. Moreover, it is a grave scandal when there is corruption of the young.
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We need to use proper terms because while a man and woman who are not related living together can definitely be a near occasion of sin and scandalous -absolutely in agreement there-the church defines fornication as a carnal union between unmarried persons. If a woman and man are living together without sexual relations, while it may defined as sinful in relation to be a cause for scandal, it is not defined as fornication by the church.
 
rayne89 said:
I’m not trying to find loopholes. First off I’m already married so this doesn’t even apply to my life (and no we did not live together before hand). The definition of fornication from the Catechism of the Catholic Church is:

We need to use proper terms because while a man and woman who are not related living together can definitely be a near occasion of sin and scandalous -absolutely in agreement there-the church defines fornication as a carnal union between unmarried persons. If a woman and man are living together without sexual relations, while it may defined as sinful in relation to be a cause for scandal, it is not defined as fornication by the church.
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Then how would you define a man and a woman not in a relationship living together in the same house as?
The church looks at it as co-habitation/fornication because there is absolutely no reason that an unmarried, non-related, man and woman should even live together. There is no point in even suggesting it, except to find a clause somewhere that might make it permissible.
Living arrangements was a term I used for siblings not non-related people.
Again there is absolutely no good reason that non-related unmarried people of the opposite sex should live together, it would only cause trouble and it would be an occasion of sin, not a near occasion but a definite occasion of sin.
 
truelove_88 said:
Then how would you define a man and a woman not in a relationship living together in the same house as?
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In the vast majority cases- a very imprudent living arrangement. I do believe generations back priests did have female house keepers living in the rectory -usually widows, or older never married women. Obviously there is nothing sinful or scandolous about that.
I don’t like labeling a non-sexual relationship as fornication because that is not accurate. Fornication involves a sexual relationship.
 
rayne89 said:
In the vast majority cases- a very imprudent living arrangement. I do believe generations back priests did have female house keepers living in the rectory -usually widows, or older never married women. Obviously there is nothing sinful or scandolous about that.
I don’t like labeling a non-sexual relationship as fornication because that is not accurate. Fornication involves a sexual relationship.
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Ok, that involves much older people. NOT the young ruled by there smaller brains, hormone raging, often sex oriented people we are talking about.
Not to mention you said widowers and spinsters. Not young unmarried women in the prime of life.
 
cohabitation in our current popular culture means sharing a household with the person with whom you are romantically linked, and sharing bed and privileges of marriage as well, without benefit of legal or religious marriage. to use it in another context is obfustication imo. Living in the same household with a person of the same or opposite sex because of a family relationship or simply friendship or economic reasons, without any sexual or romantic activity, is called, member of the same household or simply living together.
 
truelove_88 said:
Ok, that involves much older people. NOT the young ruled by there smaller brains, hormone raging, often sex oriented people we are talking about.
Not to mention you said widowers and spinsters. Not young unmarried women in the prime of life.
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This why we can not speak in absolutes about two people living together and make broad statements without exceptions.
You said
there is absolutely no good reason that non-related unmarried people of the opposite sex should live together, it would only cause trouble and it would be an occasion of sin, not a near occasion but a definite occasion of sin.
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You did not specify age or circumstance and said it would be a definite occasion of sin.
What sin would it be an occasion of by the way?
 
rayne89 said:
What sin would it be an occasion of by the way?
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May I asnwer w/ some humor?

It would be slander and gossip.

Two unmarried people (I don’t know why gender of the two people is an issue considering the fact that homosexuality appears to be the lifestyle of choice if the media coverage is representative) living together will cause tempt some to gossip and slander. We have to be more cognizant of how our actions cause people to gossip by making generalizations for which there is no evidence but only personal conjecture.
 
truelove_88 said:
cuf.org/LayWitness/online_view.asp?lwID=372
This is a link to an article put out by LAYWITNESS magazine, On co-habitation.
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And, IMO here are some of the key quotes form the article:
“Perhaps now you can better understand why Dad and I feel so
strongly about going to the home of two people who are stealing or cheating in another way—***by living together as if they are husband and wife, ***
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when they are not married,” I explained.
they’ve stolen each other’s virginity
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and chastity;
Sex outside of marriage
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is a grave sin. It causes shame to the couple; brings scandal to others who see their open defiance; holds the potential for physical health risks such as herpes
(which is a lifetime affliction), venereal disease, and AIDS; but sadder still, it involves the very real possibility of placing at risk innocent children who may be conceived from this unstable relationship.”
Clearly this is only discussing a couple that shares a home and is having sex.
 
truelove_88 said:
First off, to co-habitat means that there is a sexual relationship going on, so co-habitation in and of itself is sinful. I am simply stating that to co-habitat is gravely sinful and should be avoided at all costs.

I will say, however, I was a little too over zealous about the siblings situation so let me clarify. Living together just to make ends meet, or to help with rent, or because you need a roommate, that is really not a necessity for a brother and sister to live together outside of the family life,

A brother or sister living together is family life.

it would be improper and and could potentially lead to immodesty, temptation and sin. It could be very easily mistaken for something it is not, such as co-habitation because people do not know thats your sibling.

You’ve got to be kidding. Tempted by my brother? EWWWWW.
Besides, no one would ever mistake us for anything but siblings, we look very much alike.

I seem to confuse people very easily, so let me correct myself about my earlier posts. These particular situations deal with a case by case basis,i.e for the previous OP’s particular situation, where to live with a sibling would be completely fine and the best option, since out of necessity it is the safest thing for that person right now, they are also in a society where the cultural norms are very different. i.e woman hold hands while shopping completely normal, people don’t assume they’re homosexual.

I** live in the US and I know that living with a sibling of the opposite sex here has the potential** to lead to scandal.

Where do you live?

So I will state again that it is a case by case basis, and in no way am telling the OP to not live with her siblings. Just don’t co-habitat with the siblings, which is a completely different thing.
God Bless
finis
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