Cohabitation, it isn't fair!

[shannyk]

They are closely linked but are not the same thing.

I think there is a confusion of terms here hence the misunderstanding maybe.

I think PODO means grave matter, not grave sin.

In order for a sin to be mortal, it must meet three conditions:

* Mortal sin is a sin of grave *matter*
* Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
* Mortal sin is committed with deliberate willful consent of the sinner

1857 For a sin to be mortal, three conditions must together be met: "Mortal sin is sin whose object is grave matter and which is also committed with full knowledge and deliberate consent."131

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: "Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother."132 The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

1859 Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God’s law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart133 do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin.

ETA: I believe PODO to be right abuot this statement

Since you ( as an objective 3rd party) only know that it is a grave sin you can only label it as a grave sin. You do not know that the person has complete knowledge and you do not know his heart therefore you cannot label any grave sin as a mortal sin.

This is why we examine our consciences and go to confession.

If we are conscience of a mortal sin; one of grave matter that we willfully and knowingly committed, we should be running to the confessional, no doubt.

But, it has to be said that there are times when a perosn can commit a sin of grave matter, but one of the three other conditions is missing. This is not a mortal sin then, and the Church agknowledges this.

1862 One commits venial sin when, in a less serious matter, he does not observe the standard prescribed by the moral law, or when he disobeys the moral law in a grave matter, but without full knowledge or without complete consent.

Additionally, something that is otherwise a mortal sin (e.g. slander) may be in a particular case only a venial sin. The person may have acted without reflection or under force of habit. Thus, not fully intending the action their guilt before God is reduced. It is always good to remember, especially those who are trying to be faithful but sometimes fall, that for mortal sin it must not only be 1) serious matter, but 2) the person must know it is serious and then 3) freely commit it.

I think this is what PODO was getting at

 

[Jennifer_J]

I think there is a confusion of terms here hence the misunderstanding maybe.

I think PODO means grave matter, not grave sin.

In order for a sin to be mortal, it must meet three conditions:

* Mortal sin is a sin of grave *matter*
* Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
* Mortal sin is committed with deliberate willful consent of the sinner

ETA: I believe PODO to be right abuot this statement

This is why we examine our consciences and go to confession.

If we are conscience of a mortal sin; one of grave matter that we willfully and knowingly committed, we should be running to the confessional, no doubt.

But, it has to be said that there are times when a perosn can commit a sin of grave matter, but one of the three other conditions is missing. This is not a mortal sin then, and the Church agknowledges this.

Additionally, something that is otherwise a mortal sin (e.g. slander) may be in a particular case only a venial sin. The person may have acted without reflection or under force of habit. Thus, not fully intending the action their guilt before God is reduced. It is always good to remember, especially those who are trying to be faithful but sometimes fall, that for mortal sin it must not only be 1) serious matter, but 2) the person must know it is serious and then 3) freely commit it.

I think this is what PODO was getting at

Just wanted to agree with this, 100%

 

[Sierrah]

5 years is ridiculous, I suggest you stop wasting your time and find a woman who is ready to be married, such a long engagement is a huge temptation to sin as your question here today shows.

While I wouldn’t say the word ridiculous I would say it’s a little unusual. Are you sure the both of you are on the same page? Is one or the other maybe afraid of the final commitment. You said there’s always an excuse but lets face it if you both really wanted to be married you would have don’t it by now. Sometime it’s easier to let things be if you’re unsure then to break things off and deal with the pain and suffering that comes with it…even if you know in your heart it’s better in the long run. I’m not making judgements. I don’t know you well enough for that or have enough information. I’m just asking you to think about things and really ask yourself what you want. Then ask you’re fiance. My prayers are with you.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

I’m going to rehash what others said, but here goes…

Hello, everyone. I just need some support in my life and hope to get it here.
I live alone and I’ve been engaged for 5 years, no joke! She lives with her parents all that time.

5 years is a long time. Do you guys have some sort of serious impediment to marriage, i.e. distance, jobs, housing, debt and so on?

Every time we try to get married something comes up! “She needs to finish school! She needs a job! We’re broke! My brother needs surgery!” Something always comes up! She loves me no doubt, she’d marry me tomorrow if she had to, but she wants that BIG wedding!
She and I are young, okay I understand the wait to a degree. I am just so lonely!

While some of these are probably valid items to delay and engagement or marriage, if everytime you want to set a date an excuse comes up, I would seriously question her intent to get married.

Secondly, what’s more important, your wedding vows or putting on a big show/party?

As Dr. Laura says (paraphrasing), you aren’t serious about marriage/engagement/the relationship/the other person if you don’t have a ring and a date.

I get so upset at my cousins for having live in girlfriends! They live together and even have kids out of wedlock! One cousin even lives at home with his parents AND his girlfriend! I play by the rules and get WHAT? I understand I’m doing the right thing but sometimes I get so angry at my fiancee for being such a “good girl”! She’s 24, I’m 28. She just wont live with me until we marry. Her parents are strict Catholics. It’s not fair!:crying:

So what if you have cousins and/or friends that have live-in girlfriends or boyfriends and ahave children out of wedlock. Doesn’t make it right.

Statistics show that people who cohabitate before marriage have a higher risk or divorce. Also, break-ups of cohabitating couples if not married can be messy.

Jesus said it wouldn’t be “easy” but it would be “worth it.”

If everyone jumped off a bridge, would you?

Marriage right now is not going to happen for personal reasons, I wont explain…

Then why complain that she won’t marry you?

I am just tired of the situation. Why is cohabitation such a bad thing? My cousins get along fine with their girlfriends. My family actually thinks I AM crazy for waiting until marriage!

See my reasoning above.

Your family may think you’re crazy, but you can’t let them live your life for you.

I love her and I will wait for as long as it takes, but doing the right thing is very heartbreaking…

God bless…

Methinks you may need some time to think things through.

 

[Podo2005]

I think there is a confusion of terms here hence the misunderstanding maybe.

I think PODO means grave matter, not grave sin.

In order for a sin to be mortal, it must meet three conditions:

• Mortal sin is a sin of grave matter
• Mortal sin is committed with full knowledge of the sinner
• Mortal sin is committed with deliberate willful consent of the sinner

ETA: I believe PODO to be right abuot this statement

This is why we examine our consciences and go to confession.

If we are conscience of a mortal sin; one of grave matter that we willfully and knowingly committed, we should be running to the confessional, no doubt.

But, it has to be said that there are times when a perosn can commit a sin of grave matter, but one of the three other conditions is missing. This is not a mortal sin then, and the Church agknowledges this.

Additionally, something that is otherwise a mortal sin (e.g. slander) may be in a particular case only a venial sin. The person may have acted without reflection or under force of habit. Thus, not fully intending the action their guilt before God is reduced. It is always good to remember, especially those who are trying to be faithful but sometimes fall, that for mortal sin it must not only be 1) serious matter, but 2) the person must know it is serious and then 3) freely commit it.

I think this is what PODO was getting at

Yeah thats exactly what I meant… I’m glad somebody understood me

And I’m guessing you like the nickname “Podo” seeing as you capitalized it thoughout your post…or you thought it funny, either way I’m glad I brightened somebody’s day and made my point

Your brother in Christ
Zachary

 

[Col40]

Hello, everyone. I just need some support in my life and hope to get it here.
I live alone and I’ve been engaged for 5 years, no joke! She lives with her parents all that time.
Every time we try to get married something comes up! “She needs to finish school! She needs a job! We’re broke! My brother needs surgery!” Something always comes up! She loves me no doubt, she’d marry me tomorrow if she had to, but she wants that BIG wedding!
She and I are young, okay I understand the wait to a degree. I am just so lonely!

I get so upset at my cousins for having live in girlfriends! They live together and even have kids out of wedlock! One cousin even lives at home with his parents AND his girlfriend! I play by the rules and get WHAT? I understand I’m doing the right thing but sometimes I get so angry at my fiancee for being such a “good girl”! She’s 24, I’m 28. She just wont live with me until we marry. Her parents are strict Catholics. It’s not fair!:crying:

Marriage right now is not going to happen for personal reasons, I wont explain…
I am just tired of the situation. Why is cohabitation such a bad thing? My cousins get along fine with their girlfriends. My family actually thinks I AM crazy for waiting until marriage!
I love her and I will wait for as long as it takes, but doing the right thing is very heartbreaking…

God bless…

You’re displacing your jealousy at your cousins for living together when what you really have an issue with is your fiancee’s constant excuses for not getting married. You need to find out if she really wants to get married, and if so, if you’re the one she wants to marry. I can see holding off until the degree is finished or she has a job—but how much longer is all that going to take? Ask for some time frames. If she refuses to give you any, she’s stringing you along.

 

[karea]

I feel like a lot of responders are stuck on the ‘premarital sex’ part of cohabitation. Yeah, it’s bad, but the other parts of cohabitation that don’t work are being ignored.

My best friend has been living with her boyfriend for about 7 months now, they’re on the verge of breaking up. See, the problem with their relationship wasnt just the pre-marital sex in itself, it was the lack of commitment. They are both struggling financially, and are having a rough time being together so much all the time. Their relationship is stressed and they’re taking it out on each other. See, without that ultimate commitment, they don’t have that real incentive to make things work through the hard times. They were ‘doing great’ when everything was rainbows and sunshine, but once reality and real-life set in, they started struggling. Her boyfriend said that living with her hasn’t been what he ‘thought it would be’ and that he now ‘doesnt feel the same way’ about her anymore…

My mother calls co-habitation ‘playing house’ which I believe is correct. During the initial phase of moving in together its all fun and great, a ‘honeymoon’ period if you will–but without that ultimate commitment its really just a shallow version of the real thing, which is why it doesn’t work.

Couple try to ‘play house’ by living together, but by playing instead of engaging in the real thing, they’re setting themselves up for failure, as they can just get up and leave whenever things get hard and have less of an obligation to try to make it work (in a marriage you have to learn to give and take, in co-habitation its too easy to just ‘quit’ since that commitment isn’t there).

That’s just my take on it. From what I’ve seen of my friends that have tried to live with their partners, it just does not work.

You two need to sit down and plan things out. Maybe get pre-marital counseling and financial advising to help with the process. Once you have your goals on paper you can start working to put them into motion–life is ALWAYS going to be there, you’re going to need to learn to work with it or else nothing will ever happen.

 

[chevalier]

Your mother is wise.