N
Nuruns
Guest
My bestfriend who moved away to live with her boyfriend recently invited me to stay for a week. Is it moral to stay with a couple living together?
- Status
E
Eileen_T
Guest
IMO this is like eating meat sacrificed to idols, a possible cause of scandal that could lead others to believe you are accepting of the situation. Not good.
Personally, I wouldn’t. I used to visit a Catholic friend (a widow) a few hundred miles away (with my daughters, one of whom is her god-daughter) and stay a few days. After she married a divorced Catholic I no longer visit her as I can’t afford a motel and could not stay under her roof.
I pray for her every day and hope for her eternal happiness but we are no longer close.
Personally, I wouldn’t. I used to visit a Catholic friend (a widow) a few hundred miles away (with my daughters, one of whom is her god-daughter) and stay a few days. After she married a divorced Catholic I no longer visit her as I can’t afford a motel and could not stay under her roof.
I pray for her every day and hope for her eternal happiness but we are no longer close.
S
st_ignatius110
Guest
My first thought on this is that I don’t see how anyone could think you personally are fully supportive of what your friend has done just because you remain friends with her and visit her. That does not make sense to me. Should you follow this then logically you will take the same approach the previous poster has taken. You will cease communication with someone you consider a friend. This also makes no sense to me. I think your friend should know that you fully disagree with her and why. The why is very important. Perhaps this is something that could be discussed on your next visit with her? I would let her know I am still her friend and I will be praying for her and loving her the same as always.
G
GregoryPalamas
Guest
Why do you have to pretend that the shack up situation is actually a marriage in order to act as a friend?
CDL
S
setter
Guest
You would run the risk of being guilty of the sin of scandal.
http://beta1.catholicculture.org/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=36307
M
Matt_Collins
Guest
When Jesus ate in the homes of sinners, was he giving scandal by appearing to approve of their behavior?
S
setter
Guest
Was there ever any question by those involved or who observed Jesus where he was coming from or what he was about? Whether they fully understood his message is a different issue. Jesus was only a cause for scandal to those who rejected his message or identity. Can the same be said of the person visiting the cohabitating couple?
M
Matt_Collins
Guest
I’m not sure what you mean…
What I mean is that it is only by associating with sinners, actually being their friend and doing what friends do together, that Jesus was able to move their heart. I don’t recall that he ever put a minimum standard on a person’s behavior before he would be their friend or agree to visit them.
It is only through genuine friendship, which involves accepting people AS THEY ARE AT THE MOMENT, that we can ever hope to gain a misguided friend’s trust so that they might listen when we have something to say to them that will be hard for them to accept.
Accepting people as they are at the moment does not imply that you approve of all their actions. Rather, it means that we recognize that we’re all sinners in various ways, and that in the end, it is really God who saves and we who are His instruments. If we never visit those whom He would like to save, then how can He use us as His instrument?
If they are genuine friends, then the person living in sin will know the OP’s opinion on the matter. They can choose to “agree to disagree” in the interest of maintaining their friendship. This is in no way cause for scandal.
Suppose that rather than “living in sin” by fornicating, the OP’s friend was “living in sin” by working for an abortion clinic. Which is worse? If it is immoral to stay in the home of a fornicator, then isn’t it even worse to stay in the home of an abortion supporter?
I see no reason why we can’t be real friends with those who support and actively work with abortion. I don’t see any other way, in fact, to win their hearts and minds over to the truth. And I would have no reluctance to spend the weekend in their home.
So if I could spend the night in the home of an abortionist, then I see no reason why I could not spend the night in the home of a fornicator.
Any scandal that might arise would be only be because people assumed something about me that they have no right to assume.
M
mdgspencer
Guest
Actually, the Pharisees asked Jesus why he ate and drank with tax collectors and sinners. He said that those who are well have no need if a physicianm but those who are sick"(Lk 5:3–31). That is, he visited them in order to convert them to a better way of life, just as a doctor heals who who are sick. That is, he associated with people with immoral lives in order to change them, not simply to make a social visit.
Several of my children have fallen in this way. One of my sons lives with a women he is not married to and has two children from her. In fact she is married to someone else. I would never visit them at their home because, I feel, it would be to accept their life style. I am not willing to seem to accept it.
Several of my children have fallen in this way. One of my sons lives with a women he is not married to and has two children from her. In fact she is married to someone else. I would never visit them at their home because, I feel, it would be to accept their life style. I am not willing to seem to accept it.
F
Friar_David_O.Carm
Guest
I do not think the question is whether or not to stay friends and visit this person. No one has really said that the OP should not stay friends nor have they said that the OP should not visit.
What the question is should the OP stay the night in a house where the couple is living immorally.
I had friends who used illegal drugs. I stayed friends with them and did things with them but they knew how I felt about their drug use. I never stuck around while they were using their drugs and I never allowed its use in my house.
I do not think the OP should stay over night in this situation becuase it sends a bad message to her friend. If she has told her friend that she is against cohabitation yet she stays there then she is sending a mixed message.
What the question is should the OP stay the night in a house where the couple is living immorally.
I had friends who used illegal drugs. I stayed friends with them and did things with them but they knew how I felt about their drug use. I never stuck around while they were using their drugs and I never allowed its use in my house.
I do not think the OP should stay over night in this situation becuase it sends a bad message to her friend. If she has told her friend that she is against cohabitation yet she stays there then she is sending a mixed message.
E
ElizabethAnne
Guest
I heard a great homily about this very reading just the other day. The priest was saying that we are not supposed to identify with Jesus in this story but with the sinners. We are the sinners that Jesus dines with. Jesus dines with us because we are in need of healing.
It is not our job to heal others. We may be an agent of the Lord’s healing, but it really is His work. I don’t think there is anything wrong with merely visiting or being friends with someone who is cohabitating (as long as they know you do not approve), but sleeping at their house is another thing altogether. Sleeping over implies approval, implies that you are comfortable enough with their living arrangement to be part of it for at least a night.
My brother and his girlfriend live together. I would never let them sleep in the same bed in my home, nor would I sleep at theirs as long as this continues. Additionally, when we go on vacation together, I cannot reserve a hotel room for the two of them. I will not support their living arrangement, no matter what difficulties arise.
N
Nuruns
Guest
Excuse my stupidity - what is ‘OP’?
M
Matt_Collins
Guest
Not stupid at all. OP means “original poster”.Excuse my stupidity - what is ‘OP’?
M
mdgspencer
Guest
I would think that if there was no other reason for trying to change those living sinful lives, a person may do it out of love. For someone to live in darkness and then perhaps be lost when he dies would be very bad for him to say the least. I would think it could be appropriate to be friends with such a person, but all the same it is better to try to help them too.
S
seekerz
Guest
I like your answer. Though I probably would not stay over at the friend’s home and would not allow the two to share a room at mine, I would certainly remain friends.
The best way to influence sinful behavior is by continuing to model Christ to that person and I can’t do that if I’m out of his/her life.
We have to remember too that while it’s important to not cause scandal, much sin occurs in the heart where no one can see. While avoiding an obviously sinful living arrangement is easy, worse sin may actually exist in the people closest to me - even within my own home, so it would do me well to pray for all rather than be judgemental. Who knows from what direction the next scandal’s going to come?
M
Matt_Collins
Guest
That’s my point. But to change them he had to socialize with them. He had to be their friend. And it is my belief that the various ways they had to change their lives was not the only topic of conversation when he visited them. I’m sure he talked about other things, too, like the news of the day, the Palestinian equivalent of the World Series, the economy, how their kids were doing, etc. And peppered through all of this was his love, affection, and his clear teaching.
I’m sorry your children have chosen to live this way. But your role as their parent is different from the role of friends. I agree that as his parent you might be thought to be giving your approval. But this is because of your special role in his life. The role of friends is different. When they visit your son and his girlfriend it doesn’t have the same meaning or impact.
Suppose, for example, that two women are very close friends and are shacking up with their respective boyfriends. One of them converts to Catholicism, repents of her previous way of life and commits to live according to Christ’s teaching. She remains friends with the other woman and hopes through their friendship to share the Good News with her. But because she doesn’t want to alienate her friend, she does so slowly, over a period of time, but always is clear that she believes that premarital sex is wrong. May she accept an invitation from the couple that’s still living together to have dinner in their apartment? Is that giving her friend a confusing message?
I don’t think so. The message she’s giving is that she values her friendship even though they no longer sees eye to eye on an important matter.
If you agree that she may accept a dinner invitation then what’s so different about accepting an invitation to sleep on the couch?
I’m not assuming you do agree that she may accept a dinner invitation, but since I think she may, I would have to see some qualitative difference between that and sleeping over to change my position.
BTW, I am open to changing my position here. I just need someone to show me where I’m wrong.
E
ElizabethAnne
Guest
I never advocated not helping others!
What I said was that we cannot change “those livng sinful lives.” We cannot bring them out of darkness. We don’t have that power - only Christ does! While Christians may act as agents of Christ, it would be wrong for them to believe they are saving others. Christ is always the Savior.
S
StCsDavid
Guest
What was your response when she told you she was moving in with her boyfriend? If you were supportive or silent at that time, then you can’t very well play the rightous card, today. If you advised her not to do it, then you have a little more room to work with. If it was the latter, I would tell her that you love her dearly and that you would be more comfortable giving them their privacy and staying at a nearby motel…can she recommend any? Say it in a cheerful voice. No need to be judgemental. Now she will say you’re silly and you should say, “well, that’s me”, but stick to your guns and insist that you need to stay at motel for your own comfort. You don’t need to give any other reason than that. She will know. If she cannot respect that, then perhaps now is not a good time to visit with her.
Now if you were supportive or indifferent when she told you that she was going to shack up with the boyfriend, I would stay with her. And regardless, pray for her.
E
ElizabethAnne
Guest
If she sleeps on the couch she is saying that she is comfortable enough with the living arrangement to be a part of it, even temporarily. Sharing a meal together does not give the same message, but I would understand if someone chose not to do that either.
S
seekerz
Guest
Only Christ saves, but many times He works through us. Who did He send to take the Gospel to all the world?
There may be people who have come to Christ totally on their own, but I don’t know of any; it’s always been a parent, a friend, a coworker…somebody who cared enough to connect with another human being in need of God.
- Status