cohabitation, the new norm?

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How would the concept of marriage annulments fit in with this line of thinking. Under the present teaching of marriage annulments, as it is practiced by the American tribunals, just about anyone can ger their marriage officially annulled for the most trivial of reasons, even after having several children or after having been married for ten or fifteen years. This would appear to be contrary to what you have written.
I said that consummation without commitment is a damaging lie; and I believe that to be true. If one speaks wedding vows without meaning them, that’s damaging. If one engages in intercourse without permanence, that’s damaging. Speaking vows without meaning them is also a cause for annulment.

If tribunals give annulments for the most trivial of reasons, then they do damage to the institution of marriage. But not having been on a tribunal, I cannot judge their actions. People do lie, and they also lie with their bodies. An increasingly casual indulging in fornication cannot help, I would think, but result in an increase in annulments.
 
just about anyone can ger their marriage officially annulled for the most trivial of reasons, even after having several children or after having been married for ten or fifteen years.
If a marriage did not take place to start with, then it is immaterial how much time has passed since. It still didn’t take place. An annulment is a determination about if it took place or not.
 
Hi everyone. I’m new here because I’m looking for answers for my teenage son. He believes that living with someone before marriage is ok. He says that he does not plan to have sex before marriage but living with someone is ok. He believes that he can overcome the temptation and not ever have sex with the woman he lives with. I tried to explain although temptation isn’t a sin, putting yourself in temptations way is a sin. Am I wrong here? Am I saying the wrong thing? I need some back up!

How can I explain that living together before marriage is not the way to go. The child is highly intelligent, he completed school and is now attending college. He demands facts. I personally, am not a fact person. I believe and have faith. I need something to back up my beliefs. Can anyone tell me where in the Bible or other writings where it would address this issue? He needs to see this in order to believe it is wrong.

I would appreciate any help in the matter. Thanks in advance.
~Sky
WOw sounds like me once upon a time. My now husband and I, when we first started dating thought that we could “overcome temptation” a few nights every year and go camping or just have a “sleep over” we were DEAD wrong. While we never went all the way, there are other things that can happen that are indeed very sinful, and I am very ashamed to admit that we fell into it. And all it atkes is falling once, because when you start it’s almost impossible to stop! While LIVING together may not be in itself sinful, I would say it’s impossible to do it and not sin. I mean, everyone who messed up started off thinking they were SO strong, and later learned they were SO wrong! You can tell him that you know people who would tell him point blank it’s mpossible to live together and not be sexually intimate. Why do you think so many protestants think mary had other kids? hehehe

If he really needs a bible verse, I don’t know the address, but it says in the NT to even avoid even the appearance of sin.
 
If a marriage did not take place to start with, then it is immaterial how much time has passed since. It still didn’t take place. An annulment is a determination about if it took place or not.
That’s funny.
In 1930, there were 9 annulments in the USA.
Since Vatican II, it has been running as high as 60,000 marriage annulments per year, and in some dioceses 95% of those who apply are granted the annulment. It looks like there has been an explosion in marriages which never took happened in the first place. No wonder so many people are cohabiting. If they spend all that time and money for the wedding ceremony, only to have it declared null and void after ten or fifteen years down the line, then why go through the ceremony anyway. According to Catholic sources, it can almost always be determined that the marriage was null and void in the first place for the most trivial of reasons.
 
That’s funny.
In 1930, there were 9 annulments in the USA.
Since Vatican II, it has been running as high as 60,000 marriage annulments per year, and in some dioceses 95% of those who apply are granted the annulment. It looks like there has been an explosion in marriages which never took happened in the first place. No wonder so many people are cohabiting. If they spend all that time and money for the wedding ceremony, only to have it declared null and void after ten or fifteen years down the line, then why go through the ceremony anyway. According to Catholic sources, it can almost always be determined that the marriage was null and void in the first place for the most trivial of reasons.
It is quite scandalous, millions of non-marriages were taking place left and right…

I’m laughing, but something is seriously out of wack here. The why and how of this phenomena ought to be cause for serious pastoral concern. Tons of families with kids growing up in “marriages” without the graces proper to the state. Well, I sound a little worked up for me, but still.
 
this fits too.
it just hit my mailbox and i thought it appropriate.
  • Septmeber 12, 2007
    Chastity
“Purity? They ask. And they smile. They are the very people who approach marriage with worn-out bodies and disillusioned minds. How I wish your bearing and conversation were such that, on seeing or hearing you, people would say: this man reads the life of Jesus Christ.”
St. Josemaria Escriva

For Reflection:
Why does an unchaste life lead to “worn-out bodies” and “disillusioned minds?” Does my bearing and conversation speak of my relationship with Jesus Christ? *
 
this fits too.
it just hit my mailbox and i thought it appropriate.
  • Septmeber 12, 2007
    Chastity
“Purity? They ask. And they smile. They are the very people who approach marriage with worn-out bodies and disillusioned minds. How I wish your bearing and conversation were such that, on seeing or hearing you, people would say: this man reads the life of Jesus Christ.”
St. Josemaria Escriva

For Reflection:
Why does an unchaste life lead to “worn-out bodies” and “disillusioned minds?” Does my bearing and conversation speak of my relationship with Jesus Christ? *
I guess the truth is, and this is something the OP should suggest too, is that sex is powerful. It’s the most powerful thing we know save for our relationship with God. I don’t mean to give TMI, but when my husband and I came together for the first time on our wedding night…we were honestly scared!! Scared because we knew how close we were to BLOWING it completely by not waiting. We remembered all the times we came so close to not making it and ruining the best thing we experienced. We called all our single virgin friends we could (sadly, there weren’t many, and that wasn’t because they were married either:( ) and begged them to keep up the good fight because it is beyond worth it. You don’t want to do anything to jeopardize that gift. It’s incredible and priceless, and once it’s gone it’s GONE.
 
People say values are “old-fashioned” and act like the word “morality” is negative simply to make themselves feel better. Maybe if they act like they don’t feel guilty, they won’t anymore. But you can’t escape your conscience.

More and more people these days are conservative, even if they’re not necessarily Christian. The young generation has grown up watching the baby boomers try “free love” and go through divorce after divorce. We don’t want to live like that and we don’t want to expose our children to that. So we’re slowly changing. It is slow, but good things come to those who wait.

❤️
 
forget about dating what happen to courting?
spending time with the family and her with the focus on marriage.
My husband and I always saw our daughter and her boyfriend courting.

He had said when he first saw her in 9th grade “Thats the girl I am going to marry”

He waited for her to be old enough to visit her at our home.
We had told her that 15 was when she could be courted.

She at first stayed away from him because somehow she knew he would be the one. That scared her!😛

He carried her books and spent lots of time around us.As a family.

The plan? After graduation they will marry in the church. Then live with us until enough money is saved for their first home. At our invite of course.It is how my husband and I started out. We have been together 20 years.

My husband has been a great role model for our daughters to look to for an example of a good husband.
With me trying to show them to respect and love him.
I tell our daughters that Dad is the only “man” in their lives until he takes their hand and places it in their husbands hand at their weddings. Until that day they belong to him.He is the head of the house.

I remember telling our daughter’s fiance that! He totaly understood! He had never thought about it that way!

It is our jobs as parents to teach our children the way.
 
I agree with everything you’re saying, and I’m not saying people have to marry in their late teens. I’m less enthusiastic about dating than you are, though I agree that in many parts of society today it has given place to far more destructive patterns. I think that 1950s-style dating was probably harmless, but the serial (non-sexual) monogamy that relatively conservative, serious Christian young people engage in does (as the more radical conservatives are fond of claiming) set them up for divorce, because they come to expect to move through one relationship after another and think that this is the path to maturity.
Why do you think that warning people against the superstition of the “right person” (not the same thing as a pious trust in divine Providence) is not a good place to start?

You are right that basic moral principles and character-building are the most important thing, but it’s also important to think about how our society constructs marriage and sexuality, because this sets us up to fall into certain kinds of temptations.

Edwin
Hi Edwin,

You’re obviously sincere, but individuals construct their lives, not the society around them. Catholics need to be reminded that God is the central relationship in their lives, followed by family and friends. At the end of our lives, that’s what we have.

It’s interesting that following a perverse “sexual revolution” in the late 1960s, primarily due to the availability of the birth control pill, Catholics have been gradually weaned away from proven, time tested ways for young men and women to get to know each other in a Godly way.

Courtship with the knowledge and approval of parents.
Chapperoned dates for younger teens.
Discussion with both parents about engagement and future plans relating to marriage and children.
Talking to a priest, both of you, about your feelings and plans.
Engagement, during which practical discussions occur about the future. Admit your faults to one another.
Marriage. Either party can back out at the last minute.

Pray to God for guidance during the entire relationship. We cannort exclude Him from this.

American society began to slowly slide into an abyss in the late 1960s. Movies and television amplified and hastened this slide.

The National Organization of Women, instead of establishing ways to solve problems between men and women, aroused fear, suspicion and a feeling of victimization among women. “Throw off the chains of your oppressor!!” Men were made the enemy.

As No-Fault Divorce completed its sweep across the country in the 1980s, I began to hear, “Hey, if it doesn’t work out, we can always get a divorce.” Porn proliferated via Adult Bookstores and Hotels and Motels. By the end of the 1990s, porn on the internet and Partial Nudity and Adult Language on network TV.

Wake up my brothers and sisters in Christ. Some of us have walked so far away from God that we are living just like the world. Divorce around the same rates, promiscuity, kids who aren’t raised but fed and clothed and out the door by 18.

If we look back, the holiness and manifestation of Christ’s life in our lives, families and neighborhoods has been severely damaged. The National Organization of Women, an explosion in the number of Adult Bookstores, porn on the internet, partial nudity magazines on supermarket shelves, NONE of this was going on in the 1960s.

I grew up with modesty in dress and speech, politeness, gentleness, a sense of guilt and remorse for sins. Now, everything is eXtreme, no modesty, cussing and swearing, rudeness toward all, including parents, and sin, what’s that?

Just as the Israelites in the Bible, repent of your sins and return to the way God wants you to live. Society is of the world, but although we are in the world, we are not of the world. We should be strangers to this sort of behavior. I can’t take a date to a movie nowadays as in the past. Odds are, we’re going to see an attractive couple hop into bed, then declare a relationship, get married, and after shooting first and asking questions later, then they find out who they are really with. Example: I met a beautiful young lady who told me she had only been married 9 months. Apparently, AFTER the ceremony, she found out her husband was a “nut,” And before the ceremony?

A revival of the Holy Spirit must occur in our lives. “Society” did not become the way it is now by accident. Buy and read Catholic magazines and newspapers. Get a Catholic perspective on the world. Examine your life and begin cutting out what’s unGodly about it. There are groups like Ave Maria Singles where Catholics looking for other committed Catholics can get together. It can be done but we must return our thoughts and our lives to God.

God bless,
Ed
 
Hi Edwin,

You’re obviously sincere, but individuals construct their lives, not the society around them.
We seem to be miscommunicating somehow. Exactly what are you disagreeing with? The rest of your post indicates that you recognize that society does affect individual behavior–you can’t separate the two.

Society constructs marriage and sexuality in certain ways, and it’s easy to accept these constructions without thinking through them.

I find the remarks on the demise of dating interesting. I think that for my generation and younger “dating” means something different than it does for those in their 50s and 60s. Someone referred to people skipping the dating stage and going straight to “going steady.” “Dating” seems to be used today as a synonym for “being in a relationship.” I think that the “dating” of the 50s was quite different, though I don’t want to idealize the 50s either!

Edwin
 
‘i’ am the one who said that dating has been skipped and people go straight to going steady.
and ‘dating’ or ‘going steady’ doesn’t even mean there is an actual relationship in some cases.
kids in 4th, 5th and 6th grade are talking about what WE would have called ‘liking’ or a ‘crush’ as ‘the guy/girl i am dating’.
these kids see each other for 1 or 2 classes out of the day and they’re ‘dating’?
there’s talk of what girl/guy is trying to break them up and who’s jealous of who.
elementary playgrounds are like miniature peyton places.
high school halls are even worse.
it’s bizarre.
We seem to be miscommunicating somehow. Exactly what are you disagreeing with? The rest of your post indicates that you recognize that society does affect individual behavior–you can’t separate the two.

Society constructs marriage and sexuality in certain ways, and it’s easy to accept these constructions without thinking through them.

I find the remarks on the demise of dating interesting. I think that for my generation and younger “dating” means something different than it does for those in their 50s and 60s. Someone referred to people skipping the dating stage and going straight to “going steady.” “Dating” seems to be used today as a synonym for “being in a relationship.” I think that the “dating” of the 50s was quite different, though I don’t want to idealize the 50s either!

Edwin
 
I find the remarks on the demise of dating interesting. I think that for my generation and younger “dating” means something different than it does for those in their 50s and 60s. Someone referred to people skipping the dating stage and going straight to “going steady.” “Dating” seems to be used today as a synonym for “being in a relationship.” I think that the “dating” of the 50s was quite different, though I don’t want to idealize the 50s either!

Edwin
Well, yes. “Dating,” in the 1950’s and perhaps into the 60’s or beyond, meant going out with a girl to a movie on a Friday or Saturday night. The next weekend you might go to a movie with a different girl. There was no ongoing relationship. It was just a way of getting to meet a variety of persons of the opposite sex.

“Going steady,” --maintaining an exclusive relationship with just one person of the opposite sex—was considered a serious matter, and it was discouraged by parents and teachers, because teens were considered too young to have such exclusive relationships. Many also viewed it as an occasion of sin.

(And if anyone accused a child in elementary school of having a boyfriend or girlfriend, they would scoff and strenuously deny it.)
 
Thank you to all who have participated. This thread is now closed.
 
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