cohabitation???

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It’s easier because there is no awkwardness, no appearance of shacking up, no temptations.

If you’re determined to blow off centuries of wisdom, I’m not going to be able to talk you out of it. But those willing to look at actual outcomes have to admit the the plain old roomate system worked quite well.
Who says there have to awkwardness, you really shouldn’t let gossip get to you, and it is your job to know your limits with respect to temptation.

Centuries of wisdom, huh?

Cause the whole roommate before marriage thing totally predates the decay of the nuclear family in the second half of the 20th century?
 
That is not what the sin of scandal means at
I’m aware- the idea behind the scandal argument, as I understand it, is as follows- “well, people could assume you’re having sex, think that means having sex before marriage is okay, and then br led astray.”
That, in my view, does not meet the CCCs definition. Writing a book entitled “Sex before marriage and why Jesus wants you to have it.” on the other hand would.
 
Who says there have to awkwardness, you really shouldn’t let gossip get to you, and it is your job to know your limits with respect to temptation.

Centuries of wisdom, huh?

Cause the whole roommate before marriage thing totally predates the decay of the nuclear family in the second half of the 20th century?
Sometimes you wonder about people. You surely cannot be arguing that shacking up has a respectable history in christendom.

Instead you attempt to dodge the issue by making the specific alternative to it (roomates) the focus instead of the main topic (cohabitation). I’m not interested in arguing for points. Good day.
 
Sometimes you wonder about people. You surely cannot be arguing that shacking up has a respectable history in christendom.

Instead you attempt to dodge the issue by making the specific alternative to it (roomates) the focus instead of the main topic (cohabitation). I’m not interested in arguing for points. Good day.
“If you’re determined to blow off centuries of wisdom, I’m not going to be able to talk you out of it. But those willing to look at actual outcomes have to admit the the plain old roomate system worked quite well.”

You don’t see how mentioning the “centuries if wisdom” I’m discarding and how the facts support the “plain old roommate system” in the samr breath, with no clarification implies that the roommate system is the wisdom to which you were alluding?

The old system has been thrown out, simply by virtue of the fact that a young adult is expected to move out and become financially independant asap rather than living with the family till marriage.
 
The old system has been thrown out, simply by virtue of the fact that a young adult is expected to move out and become financially independant asap rather than living with the family till marriage.
My experience has been that only a few parents expect their child to move out before marriage. Help support the household yes, but move out? It strikes me that moving out is often driven by the young person who does not want to keep to the values he was raised with and moves out to support a period of dissipated living and indeed shacking up. Its not the parents that generally are supporting this “custom.”
 
The old system has been thrown out, simply by virtue of the fact that a young adult is expected to move out and become financially independant asap rather than living with the family till marriage.
Farm families keep their grown children home until marriage even until now - in the big city, however, it has always been that as soon as the boy was finished school, his father got him an entry level position in the business of a friend of his, and he moved out on his own to live in rental accommodations or in a men’s boarding house. At the end of a year, when he had saved up enough money, he would then go to University to study for a degree, and it was expected that he would live in the dorm.

Girls were sent forth to finishing school or to teacher’s college, and were expected to board with some kind old lady until they finished school, and then to take up teaching school or sewing, or secretarial work of some kind, until they met a nice man.

Once married, of course, it was expected that they would retire from their job and start having kids - but it was always considered unwise for a city kid to marry straight from home.
 
I didn’t say it did- I was simply responding to a false claim.

What makes you so sure of that? A couple could have sex just as easily without cohabiting, save the necessary walk or drive. Would you object to a couple moving into the same apartment building but renting different rooms?

What on Earth is an easier way to save on overhead costs then by splitting them?
hi,
so ive read a bunch of answers here regarding this situation but none have helped me because they all seem to be 1> personal opinions or 2> serious presumption (ie: you presume they are having sex).

so ill give you my REAL situation and you can give me some opinions…

A few days a week my GF spends the night at my house. The reason for this is that we live pretty far from each other so after we’ve spent some time together i dont want her to drive home late.

We do NOT have sex.

Are we in mortal sin?

.
 
hi,
so ive read a bunch of answers here regarding this situation but none have helped me because they all seem to be 1> personal opinions or 2> serious presumption (ie: you presume they are having sex).

so ill give you my REAL situation and you can give me some opinions…

A few days a week my GF spends the night at my house. The reason for this is that we live pretty far from each other so after we’ve spent some time together i dont want her to drive home late.

We do NOT have sex.

Are we in mortal sin?

.
You seem to have misunderstood my arguments- I was claiming that cohabitation is not a sin on its own.
 
You seem to have misunderstood my arguments- I was claiming that cohabitation is not a sin on its own.
i wasnt arguing, i simply used your post as a ‘reply to’ . i wanted to give people my situation and receive feedback. thats all.
 
TG,

I think it is risky. I believe you should try to avoid even the appearance of sin. It’s so easy for the appearance to become the reality. “They all think I’m doing it anyway, so I might as well do it.”

Examine your conscience about this situation, looking especially for selfishness. How much sacrifice are you prepared to make to protect her chastity? her reputation?

God bless you,
 
As someone who chose not to cohabit before marriage, I’d like to touch on the idea of “appearances.” I think the appearances argument is a poor one to justify not cohabiting because anyone can see a couple together at what could be considered a “questionable time” and blow everything out of proportion. Not to mention, it places the responsibility of others’ thoughts and perceptions onto the couple which is not theirs to take. An example would be going out on a date and it’s late at night. Anyone could see the couple arrive at either the boyfriend’s or girlfriend’s home and assume something.

The problems are more about issues with mindset and temptation. I hate to say it, but when you are in love with someone and you spend an extended amount of time together-- there are times where you want to get frisky :o because it’s that difficult to hold back. I’m not talking about a week or a few days, but extended amount of time, such as a few months. There is nothing holding you back from indulging in that temptation except good judgment. We all know that the flesh is very strong and the drive to sate those desires is extremely strong, and even addicting. When I hear of a Christian couple who move in together before marriage, I wonder why they would put themselves through such physical torture. The Bible flat out says “flee from temptation”-- moving in together is the opposite.

There’s a lot of stats that show cohabiting couples divorcing at a higher rate than non-cohabiting couples. We need to look at these stats critically. For one, the stats of the cohabiting couples show them divorcing sooner than non-cohabiting couples. If we were to draw a timeline comparing these groups, we would be able to see that the non-cohabiting couples end up getting divorced, but later down the line. So to say that living together before marriage causes later divorce would be a poor use of science, but cohabiting heavily contributes to later divorce more so than not doing so.

However, many stats show that couples who cohabited have less marital satisfaction, have poorer communication skills, and are more likely to experience domestic violence than couples who did not cohabit. Communication skills are extremely important to the success of a marriage early on, and without this vital skill couples are likely to go down a drain of failure. Living together before marriage also places more pressure on the couple to stay together, even when one or both people may recognize that the relationship is failing. But when you’ve invested your time and energy into getting a place together, pooling your resources, and sexual activity it’s much more difficult to leave the relationship and get into a more healthy pattern of living. There is also lots of reputable research out there that shows cohabiting before marriage can be more harmful for women because women have a lot more to lose than men.

Also another truth about marriage-- living together does not guarantee you anything about the character, habits, expectations, etc. of your partner. People are subject to change in the way they perceive the world, the way they act, how inhibited (or uninhibited) they choose to be around certain people, and what they expect from others. Life changes can cause drastic changes in others. I am speaking from experience and also from the experience of others. To say that living together will allow you to run a “trial” of what the other person will really be like is no different than saying you should have sex before marriage to “test drive” the other person so you know you are sexually compatible.
 
spunjalebi, thank you for posting a well thought out response to the original question and for addressing the weaknesses of many of the commonly used arguments (which fail to work because of those weaknesses.)

I would like to point out one more flaw in the cohabitation studies. They have also shown that couples who cohabitate with commitment in mind do not have higher divorce rates. I think there was one article I read, that had been linked from another thread, discussing cohabitation in a “betrothed” sort of situation, where the divorce rates were better than average if I remember right.

What is your take on that?
 
I haven’t read all the responses, but my experience with co-habitation is negative. I rejected the dating traditions and values I had been taught, in favor of the cultural norms of the times.
From a female point of view -
First of all, I really doubt you can cohabitate without having sex for very long. Anyway, what happens is you lose your objectivity about the other person. Dating is a period of observation! And co-habitation is too close to see the whole picture. Plus, you feel obligated to stay when you shouldn’t. You feel obligated to overlook things you shouldn’t. Your money is tied up with this person, maybe you don’t have anywhere to go if you want to leave. You experience all these subtle pressures that are hard to explain. I feel we lost much when we departed from the tradition of old-fashioned courtship with chaperones and long engagements.
 
spunjalebi, thank you for posting a well thought out response to the original question and for addressing the weaknesses of many of the commonly used arguments (which fail to work because of those weaknesses.)

I would like to point out one more flaw in the cohabitation studies. They have also shown that couples who cohabitate with commitment in mind do not have higher divorce rates. I think there was one article I read, that had been linked from another thread, discussing cohabitation in a “betrothed” sort of situation, where the divorce rates were better than average if I remember right.

What is your take on that?
That’s another thing that makes this topic tricky. From what I understand (I’ve read that before too), cohabiting before engagement is risky. I would assume that couples who are in a “betrothed” situation have seriously discussed engagement, marriage, the transitions, and have probably consulted someone at their church. I’ve noticed a lot of young couples who want to cohabit before marriage are talking with their priests to make sure they wouldn’t be breaking any cohabitation rules the church may have prior to marriage preparation. My church didn’t have a such rule, but the priest made it VERY obvious what his preference-- and God’s :)-- was.

The problem here lies with the mindset which is attached to cohabiting. The OP voiced the question in a manner that involved “testing” and “trial running” a relationship. These viewpoints imply that there isn’t enough trust in the relationship, or commitment, to accept another person completely for all their flaws and failures. If a relationship is truly secure in its love, why is there a need to “test” in the first place? I am guessing that couples who are in a betrothal situation have accepted that they will go through with engagement and marriage, but even THAT isn’t a guarantee. The truth is people act like humans have guarantees and we have expectations that aren’t going to be lived up to. I have met people who were engaged and cohabited yet still broke up because of interpersonal problems within their relationships. These problems became messier as time went by because neither person had the objectivity to address the problems due to the fact that they were living together.

That being said, having a “marriage mindset” should never be a way to justify cohabiting. Having a mindset is different from actually living out the real thing, which is solidified spiritually in accordance to our beliefs as Catholic Christians. Marriage isn’t a piece of paper that just gets signed in addition to the lease, and I would find it very sad if someone used that line to justify why cohabiting was a good idea.
 
That’s another thing that makes this topic tricky. From what I understand (I’ve read that before too), cohabiting before engagement is risky. I would assume that couples who are in a “betrothed” situation have seriously discussed engagement, marriage, the transitions, and have probably consulted someone at their church. I’ve noticed a lot of young couples who want to cohabit before marriage are talking with their priests to make sure they wouldn’t be breaking any cohabitation rules the church may have prior to marriage preparation. My church didn’t have a such rule, but the priest made it VERY obvious what his preference-- and God’s :)-- was.

The problem here lies with the mindset which is attached to cohabiting. The OP voiced the question in a manner that involved “testing” and “trial running” a relationship. These viewpoints imply that there isn’t enough trust in the relationship, or commitment, to accept another person completely for all their flaws and failures. If a relationship is truly secure in its love, why is there a need to “test” in the first place? I am guessing that couples who are in a betrothal situation have accepted that they will go through with engagement and marriage, but even THAT isn’t a guarantee. The truth is people act like humans have guarantees and we have expectations that aren’t going to be lived up to. I have met people who were engaged and cohabited yet still broke up because of interpersonal problems within their relationships. These problems became messier as time went by because neither person had the objectivity to address the problems due to the fact that they were living together.

That being said, having a “marriage mindset” should never be a way to justify cohabiting. Having a mindset is different from actually living out the real thing, which is solidified spiritually in accordance to our beliefs as Catholic Christians. Marriage isn’t a piece of paper that just gets signed in addition to the lease, and I would find it very sad if someone used that line to justify why cohabiting was a good idea.
well in that case why should god test us if his love for us is true? remember, true love is TESTED love. love is not fuzzy feelings, love is an act of the will.

the reason why divorce rates are high is because people get married without really knowing each other, then as time goes by they find a lot of things about the other they dont like and then get divorced. i mean… if you liked everything about the other person you would never get divorced.

i think getting to know someone as much as possible before marriage is OK so you know what your getting into. (and by ‘possible’ i mean as much as the church permits).

one of the arguments against cohabitation is that marriage is a sacrificial thing. well in that case you should marry the first person you date then right? of course not. you get to know people and find the right spouse for you.

i still wish some people would answer my first post regarding my situation. would love some advice there.

god bless
-tg
 
well in that case why should god test us if his love for us is true?
Let’s not try to equate earthly, humanly love with the same love we show God and He shows us. Really.
the reason why divorce rates are high is because people get married without really knowing each other, then as time goes by they find a lot of things about the other they dont like and then get divorced. i mean… if you liked everything about the other person you would never get divorced.
That’s a false assumption. The reasons why couples get divorced is because simply put, they are lazy, there are poor communication skills-- why else would Retrovaille exist??–and there is poor conflict resolution in terms of money, sex, and other issues. People also get divorced because if one partner isn’t putting in the same effort or refuses too–such as with couples where one person wants to seek counseling with a priest or therapist, but the other refuses. People are dating much longer nowadays than before. To many people, having dated for 2 years isn’t enough time. My husband and I were together for more than 3 years.

Once again, there is an argument with the expectation that humans ought to be predictable and perfect-- we are going to find something about another person that we don’t like, even our good friends who we rarely argue with! And research has shown that the longer a couple has been married, the more those little quirks bother them. But they choose to remain married.
i think getting to know someone as much as possible before marriage is OK so you know what your getting into. (and by ‘possible’ i mean as much as the church permits).
Yes, and that is why people need to approach dating/courtship from a serious manner which is about making the right choices, instead of being in the heat of the moment. I meet more Christians who believe that dating is about “seeing where it goes” than non-Christian theists.
one of the arguments against cohabitation is that marriage is a sacrificial thing. well in that case you should marry the first person you date then right? of course not. you get to know people and find the right spouse for you.
Married the first person I ever dated and despite the fact that he drives me crazy at times, I have what many people don’t seem to understand-- agape, which is Biblical, self-sacrificial love. So please, don’t knock those of us who decided that our first serious boyfriends or girlfriends were the one for us.
 
hi,
so ive read a bunch of answers here regarding this situation but none have helped me because they all seem to be 1> personal opinions or 2> serious presumption (ie: you presume they are having sex).

so ill give you my REAL situation and you can give me some opinions…

A few days a week my GF spends the night at my house. The reason for this is that we live pretty far from each other so after we’ve spent some time together i dont want her to drive home late.

We do NOT have sex.

Are we in mortal sin?

.
I wouldn’t say you are in mortal sin, but you placed yourselves at temptation’s doorstep. Now, if you had a Christian roommate who could have helped you be accountable, that would be one thing.

This is cause for a slippery slope that we humans are so great at doing to ourselves. The first few times there might not be sex, but then one night when you’re kissing and things start to get heated, it’s hard to turn back. As people who have had premarital sex tell me, once you start it’s hard to stop.
 
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