Cohabitation

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vtech2009

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Hello,

I am a little troubled/mad/confused about my recent experience with two different priests during confession where I did not receive absolution. A part of me also is saying that I should take the priests with a grain of salt because each priest has a different interpretation, and following the religion to the letter could make you miss the point/purpose - like “it is better to cut off your arm than to sin”.

Each priest is saying something different, and the literature surrounding cohabitation isn’t crystal clear. I mean look at Amoris Laetitia - everything is not black and white. Everything depends on the context and situation. How is cohabitation any different?

I understand that the general view is that cohabitation with sexual relations is a sin. However, if I have a deep urge to stop sexual relations, should I not be forgiven and receive absolution?

Also the context is quite important. Long story short, we never intended to live together, it was supposed to be temporary. I had to move out of my place. Now living separately seems counter-intuitive, and not the way forward. We intend to get married, but everything requires some time.

First, I don’t understand how this sin can receive no absolution, while others, can be forgiven. If someone is addicted to pornography, and uses the computer to watch pornography, shouldn’t this person not receive absolution until he gets rid of this computer? Isn’t it the same logic here? If I review my sins over the past years, most of them are repeat sins, and each time I fall, each time I try to get up, but I receive absolution. Somehow it seems that cohabitation is different? Why?

Really everywhere you go is a near occasion to sin. I mean, you have violence and sex everywhere. You walk outside, see a pretty lady, - boom occasion to lust and sin. How is this different from cohabitation where its really the same near occasion?

In addition, the fact that I am living with my partner has led me out of more serious mortal sins that I have never been able to manage on my own. The probability is high, that moving out will lead me back to my old sins. So it seems counter intuitive to move out and risk falling back into much more destructive sins.

Also, I understood cohabitation without sexual relations is rather OK. So theoretically I can move out for a short-time, receive absolution, move back in, stop sexual relations, and it seems all good on paper. Seems fake to me.

I am also surprised that the two priests had different views. The first was willing to give me absolution if I had proposed with a wedding date set. The other said he would not absolve even after proposing and setting a wedding date. Maybe I should find a priest that will lean towards a different interpretation.

Also, there is no definition of living together. Before moving in we spent 24 hours a day together. Does it mean we share the bed only sometimes? What is sometimes? Or should we try not to see each other, which seems counter-intuitive.

The first priest was quite mad and suggested that I may at any time “pack her bags and kick her out”. I felt quite sad that the priest was able to judge me like that, and put words in my mouth. The second priest was more understanding, but it seems like after I told him I did not receive absolution, he didn’t give me absolution either. So seems like the strategy is to go to confession as many times, maybe the priest won’t ask if I received absolution, and then I will receive absolution, because it seems like a destructive cycle.

Another tandem, each time the priests only focus on sexual sins - seems like fornication is the sin that needs to be discussed, topping all other sins like fighting with parents, or treating people bad.

Also, I told the second priest that my partner received absolution. The priest said that really the absolution isn’t valid and my partner shouldn’t receive communion. Then my question is, when looking at the stats of divorced, cohabitators, etc. etc. I mean, seems like a huge portion of the population is in mortal sin and shouldn’t be receiving the Eucharist, but the line to the Eucharist tells a different story. So are they all lying to themselves?

In short, I am quite angry that I have come with a sincere desire to amend my sexual sins and I am very sorry for offending God, yet I receive no absolution and I am not able to receive the Eucharist. It is also troubling, that in the case I die, I risk going to hell.

Also, going to confession seems pointless, which then makes a lot of things pointless, so you can see it can become very discouraging.

To be honest, I doubt moving out will change anything. We had sexual relations before moving in together, and most likely will have sexual relations after moving out. The only difference is I will receive absolution, and we will try to work on becoming better Catholics, but realistically given biology, seems nearly impossible to stop all sexual sins.

Also, my friend told me there are 2-3 churches in my area where they are known to absolve cohabitation. Has it really come to this that I need to shop for the right church and priest? Seems confusing.

Sorry for the long post.

Please let me know your thoughts.
 
I don’t see how you can receive absolution with the intent to continue the situation. You are looking for a validation of all your excuses. No validation from me. Peace.
 
Maybe I missed something in your post, but I didn’t see what your intent was regarding absolution. I also didn’t see any sort of expression of reverence or love of God in your post. If you are seeking to have God forgive your sins, and yet you still think that moving out would be to much of an inconvenience, why would a priest give you absolution?

AL is meant to address complex, unitive relationships. You are simply saying you don’t want to move out from your girlfriend - that’s not complex, it’s not even a unitive relationship.

You should be a whole person, on your own, ready to be married - before you get engaged. You indicated you didn’t want to move out because you might fall back into some sort of vice. Your wife, and much less, your girlfriend should not serve as a life preserver for you. If you cannot take care-spiritual or otherwise-of yourself, on your own, then you should not get married; so, there goes your excuse for co-habitation.
 
I like the way you think because it is similar to the way I think- I have a whole notebook full of questions like yours- the seemingly uneven scales of situations and what I’ve heard said by priests of religious and wondering to make sense of all of it… How does it fit? And what does it say about me and what I should do!? But I came to realize that none of us are God, so why expect perfection from them? Don’t expect perfection from yourself either, but ultimately, we will be judged by God. Ultimately we have to make decisions about things in our lives. Priests and religious are there to help guide, share their knowledge and expertise,… just like if you were seeing a doctor. Heck, hardly any of those agree on things either! Its tough! But that’s a part of life! Its also something to be thankful for- we grow when we get through it.

So anyway, you asked us, what we thought… Here goes…

Why not just get married? (And I even mean like find the chapel today and get hitched type married- that is if you want it, really want marriage) Why or why not are you not making a choice?

Honest question. Why not? (You don’t have to share the reasons here, but its perplexing to me, why not?) Then you wouldn’t have this problem to contend with or all the others that you spoke of if you followed the advice of the priest. Why aren’t you married? Why are you waiting? What are you waiting for?

You think this issue is about priest shopping and absolution. What I see is its about : WHY HAVEN"T YOU MARRIED? AND YOU dodging that issue. What is the underlying issue there? You seem to be evading it. I mean, do you want the big fancy expensive wedding and the party and are waiting until the right time to afford it? Or you don’t have enough money to pay the priest? What is the issue? What are you waiting for? Are you waiting for someone better to come along? Are you only ‘so so’ with who you are now with? What is the fear behind the procrastination? I mean, you love your partner, right? So why haven’t you made it final?

I think those things are the main issue here. No, in fact, it darn right SCREAMS to me that is the real issue- not the priests, the church. I would also sense you feel pressured, you feel scared and when something gets too close- you somewhat lash out… So whatever this is, its private, to you and its between you and God but you seriously need some time to examine it thoroughly and come to Jesus. Maybe take a trip and stay at a monastery … they have more time to guide you than a priest often does. I think you are here too because you want to examine this issue, but I say go to the heart of the church- a monastery. Talk with them there about it… ask them to pray for you while you stay and work on it!

Some other rambling thoughts from me…

From what I heard cohabitation without sexual relations is NOT ok as you put it. Never heard that before- maybe you didn’t mean that? I can see in extreme cases why it might be excused slightly- like in non romantic situations with necessity… but even at that it could be a recipe for disaster. (Happened in my own family tree)

You said yourself that without this cohabitation you could easily fall into sexual sin, so why is it ok that you pick one person to use sexually when you have no intention of marrying that person? Even if your partner agrees to sin together with you in that…why is that ok to do that to your partner? Forgive me for being a bit frank, but it is rather immature and abusive to do that because you are not putting the other’s best interest first. You aren’t putting God first either… How is that preparing you for marriage? Even if a partner says its ok to do that to them, its not. Just like the people saying, " well the porn star doesn’t mind me watching, in fact they want to because its more money for them", - yes, but God and maybe some of their family members do mind their son or daughter’s likeness is being abused for money. Just because two people get an equal exchange from an unlawful deal does not make it ok. The means don’t justify the ends.

You aren’t even putting God or the other first even when you say “hey this is so unfair I may go to hell” Its not the priest’s fault dear! Its like you are too afraid to make the decisions and make those sacrifices necessary for those decisions. Ultimately every single soul on this earth has to decide and will do so- even if they 'never decide" and let things fall- that’s a choice. You need to look inside yourself in prayer for the answers and not priest shop… as like you said, that’s no good. its like the person that asks for the sign and they got one but they are unsure so they ask again, and again and again… and you and I both know that won’t lead to anywhere good.
Code: 
Ironically enough, this is why you should not cohabit either!!!!!!!   Settling with someone now because they are mr or mrs right now  can lead to some massive heartbreak later...     What happens when you make wedding plans finally with this partner and lets say, 'the one' shows up in your life?!!  Would you be able to break it all down and do what you ought to do (that is, don't go through with the wedding since you have conflicted feelings- ones you might be tempted to ignore!  Can people adequately fake love?  Can humans ignore real love?!      Right now, it is seemingly like you are waiting for something better to come along.   Otherwise, you would have married.  Am I judging you wrongly in this?    And sadly because sexual relations DO BOND people-  people get comfortable in situations that God did not plan for them.   We can all settle for lukewarm.  A lot of people do, because its easier.   We ultimately choose what we are willing to do.
I also apologize for my long post.
 
Amoris Laeticia is not doctrine.
It was just a letter. It’s not Catholic doctrine. The Pope did not declare it infallible, and can only declare it infallible is he declares it from the Seat of St Peter in the Vatican. The only other way it can be declared infallible is if a whole congregation of the world’s Bishops vote in majority for it. None of this has happened. So it is not church law nor is it anywhere in Catholic doctrine, nor is it permitted anywhere in the Catholic catechism of the Catholic Church, which is the guidebook for all venial and mortal sin for the current church.

The Previous two Popes, Pope Benedict and Saint John Paul the Great, said that cohabitation is a mortal sin, with or without romantic behaviour between the couple, because of the risk of fornication and because of the scandal that everyone else will presume that.the cohabitating couple is fornicating. And this will lead others to actually follow bad example and cohabitate/ fornicate.

Bible words of St Paul:
“Did you not know that sexual sin is a sin like no other?. Every other sin is a sin committed outside the body. But sexual sin is a sin against your own body. Did you know you are not your own? You were bought with a price. Your body is a Temple of the Holy Spirit.”

Book of Revelation:
Words of Jesus to St John:
“fornicators will NOT enter the Kingdom of Heaven. They will be cast into the outer darkness with the Beast and the Antichrist where they will burn in the Lake of fire for all eternity. There there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Jesus Himself has spoken on this in the above two quotes.
Jesus also said through St Paul in the Bible,
“If you cannot restrain yourself you do better to marry.”

Nowhere does it say, “If you cannot restrain yourself then cohabitate until marriage.”
No Pope has ever said that. No word in the Bible has ever said that.

It wouldn’t kill you to have separate accommodation for the good of your own soul, for the good of her soul, and for good example to other souls, and to have a wedding within 6 months (which is the Catholic church’s minimum amount of time a person must wait before marrying.)

Our Lady of Fatima:
“97% of the souls who are in Hell are there for unchastity/ impurity.”

Purity isn’t just a thing.
It’s a matter of Heaven or Hell.

God’s words through Jesus in the Bible:
“Only the pure will see God.”

“Be holy for I am Holy.”
“Be pure, for I am pure.”

If you want to know what God the Father thinks of impurity read the scourging at the pillar, where Jesus was stripped naked and beaten with sticks, then whips, and then whips with metal hooks which tore all His flesh off piece by piece until He was one gaping wound of blood.
 
It is a lie of the devil to believe “cohabitation is keeping you from worse sins.” actually cohabitation is one of the worst sexual sins because you are damning the other persons soul to hell by their thoughts or actions.

You would be 200 times closer to God by living in separate accommodation and practicing purity and good example.

If you don’t care about your own soul, what about the soul of your partner.
What if they burn in hell for all eternity because of your relations with them.

How is that fair on them?
How is that you truly loving them?
How is that fair on her parents who may reach heaven and spend eternity without their daughter, and spend eternity with the knowledge that their daughter is burning with the fallen angels in the 7th circle of hell?
 
Sex outside of marriage is a sin. Don’t expect absolution until you stop and repent.
 
vtech2009 said:
Hello,
…
I understand that the general view is that cohabitation with sexual relations is a sin. However, if I have a deep urge to stop sexual relations, should I not be forgiven and receive absolution?

Also the context is quite important. Long story short, we never intended to live together, it was supposed to be temporary. I had to move out of my place. Now living separately seems counter-intuitive, and not the way forward. We intend to get married, but everything requires some time.
…

Also, I understood cohabitation without sexual relations is rather OK. So theoretically I can move out for a short-time, receive absolution, move back in, stop sexual relations, and it seems all good on paper. Seems fake to me.

I am also surprised that the two priests had different views. The first was willing to give me absolution if I had proposed with a wedding date set. The other said he would not absolve even after proposing and setting a wedding date. Maybe I should find a priest that will lean towards a different interpretation.

Also, there is no definition of living together. Before moving in we spent 24 hours a day together. Does it mean we share the bed only sometimes? What is sometimes? Or should we try not to see each other, which seems counter-intuitive.
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I am trying to put the bits and pieces together from your post.

Some definition first. What do you mean by cohabitation? Are both of you sharing the same room and bed and living like husband and wife? In this case, no priest would absolve you until you make a decision to stop whatever that you are doing.

It is not fake actually because if you revert, then it is a sin again.

Or are you staying together, perhaps out of necessity, sharing an apartment, staying in different room and maintain your chastity, perhaps a temporary arrangement when marriage can be arranged? I think in this case, a priest may be sympathetic to your situation and may absolve you.

You see, it is hard for a priest to justify cohabitation (living like husband and wife without being married) because it is fundamentally against Catholic living. I heard some Christian denominations allow it but we certainly don’t.
vtech2009 said:
In addition, the fact that I am living with my partner has led me out of more serious mortal sins that I have never been able to manage on my own. The probability is high, that moving out will lead me back to my old sins. So it seems counter intuitive to move out and risk falling back into much more destructive sins.
Click to expand...
This is rather immature, not that you are, but absolving sin does not work this way. Bottom line is you do not sin. There may be mitigating factors but ultimately you are accountable for what you do. You decide the best way to avoid sins but when you commit them anyway, you have sinned again.

God bless.
 
Place yourself in the position of those two priests:
How could they, in their own good conscience, absolve you of sins that you persist in? They dole out the Blood of Agnus Dei. How do you suppose they defend their reckless action of illicitly absolving you of your unrepentant sin? Please try your best to regularize your living situation. Ask St. Augustine to intercede on your behalf so that you may resist those temptations. You risk scarring your soul by committing mortal sins, please do not do them!
 
Peter_J said:
Did your post contain an expression of reverence or love of God?
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Would you consider charitably instructing the ignorant or admonishing the sinner a form of expressing reverence or love of God?
 
Wannabe_Monk_16 said:
Would you consider charitably instructing the ignorant or admonishing the sinner a form of expressing reverence or love of God?
Click to expand...
I don’t think it would be for me to say who has Christian charity and who doesn’t. But in any case, reading the last two posts (post #11 and post #12) I would say that both you *and *I should be subject to the same “didn’t see any sort of expression of reverence or love of God in your post” comment that 1Lord1Faith extended to vtech2009. (Well, unless you count having “Religion: Catholic” in my profile.)
 
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