Cohabiting and Church Leadership

  • Thread starter Thread starter legaleagle
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
L

legaleagle

Guest
A fellow church member asked me to write him a letter of recommendation for a church program which would allow him to be involved in leadership in the parish (he’s already a Eucharistic minister). At the time he asked me, I wondered if he and his fiance were living together (I had no evidence but I knew they had taken a trip together and wondered about hotel rooms, etc.). In retrospect, I should’ve told him I need to ask him some questions before writing the letter but I was cowardly and thought I might be wrong about his living situation and his private life isn’t my business. Plus, around that time, I noticed his fiance had signed her name with the guy’s surname and they were sharing an email address, so I reasoned that they must’ve gotten married in a small ceremony.

The whole thing has been nagging at me so the last time I saw them, I came out and asked if they had gotten married. The response was “no” and then I asked about the woman’s surname change and one of them answered something to the effect that they thought she might as well change it. I was shocked and perplexed and didn’t ask any follow up questions. Since then, I was chatting with a mutual friend who told me she assumed they had married because she was pretty sure they are living together.

I am worried that I have committed a sin in writing the letter. I wrote a good letter for him where I spoke well of his spirituality (from what I knew) but if he’s in mortal sin and distributing Communion, then that’s a major problem.

I am debating what to do. I hate thinking the worst about someone but I feel he duped me. I don’t know whether to ask him about things and tell him that I could not have recommended him for the program and then contact the person to whom I wrote the letter. Or whether to just let this go. After all, the priest also wrote him a recommendation letter and somewhere along the way, someone should’ve checked out his living situation. I’m torn up because I feel I’ve done grave wrong in this matter and I know if I ask this guy for clarification, he’ll probably get angry. :confused:
 
Perhaps one should talk with the person first…??

and if things do not resolve… one person (instead of writing the letter??) to talk with perhaps is the Pastor…??
 
Let it go. It is the responsibility of the person hiring/appointing for the position to determine if this man meets the required qualifications. Living arrangements are fairly easy to determine by asking a question. Your recommendation should speak to the man’s abilities, skills, talents, and qualities that he has that would allow him to excel at running the program he is applying for.
 
If you have not written the letter, do not do so until you have talked with the individual. If his response is that it is his private business, then politly refuse to write the letter and tell him why,
If you have already written the letter, honesty demands that you contact the addressee and let him know that you have been duped and that you wish to withdraw your recommendation.
If this person is a Eucharistic Minister and is Cohabiting without benefit of Catholic Marriage, your Pastor should be informed because that in itself is a source of scandal. That sort of behavior on the part of a Eucharistic Minister is an affront to our Lord and Savior and cannot be justified.
 
Thanks everyone, for your replies.

I still haven’t decided what I’ll do - - the fact is I do not know with 100% certainty that he his cohabitting. I strongly suspect it, someone else told me they think he is, the woman has changed her surname to his, but even then, there is a chance they are sharing expenses and it’s not conjugal (I know, that’s probably ridiculous but it’s possible).

If I do anything, I will have to speak to him first as it would be unfair to go behind his back but it’s so awkward. I just know it will be perceived by him as judging (even though I know it’s not judging to try and help a wayward brother). At the very least, he’s in mortal sin and his eternal resting place is in jeopardy.

I will pray and perhaps talk to a priest for advice. I can’t speak to the priest that wrote the recommendation letter for him because that priest is gone now and we have a new one who doesn’t know either of us. And I may just drop it because the priest had a responsibility to check this out when he wrote his letter.

Anyway, thank you for your advice. I really appreciate it.
 
legaleagle said:
A fellow church member asked me to write him a letter of recommendation for a church program which would allow him to be involved in leadership in the parish (he’s already a Eucharistic minister). At the time he asked me, I wondered if he and his fiance were living together (I had no evidence but I knew they had taken a trip together and wondered about hotel rooms, etc.). In retrospect, I should’ve told him I need to ask him some questions before writing the letter but I was cowardly and thought I might be wrong about his living situation and his private life isn’t my business. Plus, around that time, I noticed his fiance had signed her name with the guy’s surname and they were sharing an email address, so I reasoned that they must’ve gotten married in a small ceremony.

The whole thing has been nagging at me so the last time I saw them, I came out and asked if they had gotten married. The response was “no” and then I asked about the woman’s surname change and one of them answered something to the effect that they thought she might as well change it. I was shocked and perplexed and didn’t ask any follow up questions. Since then, I was chatting with a mutual friend who told me she assumed they had married because she was pretty sure they are living together.

I am worried that I have committed a sin in writing the letter. I wrote a good letter for him where I spoke well of his spirituality (from what I knew) but if he’s in mortal sin and distributing Communion, then that’s a major problem.

I am debating what to do. I hate thinking the worst about someone but I feel he duped me. I don’t know whether to ask him about things and tell him that I could not have recommended him for the program and then contact the person to whom I wrote the letter. Or whether to just let this go. After all, the priest also wrote him a recommendation letter and somewhere along the way, someone should’ve checked out his living situation. I’m torn up because I feel I’ve done grave wrong in this matter and I know if I ask this guy for clarification, he’ll probably get angry. :confused:
Click to expand...
Marriage is ultimately a matter of public honesty. The Sacrament of Matrimony even more so…which is part of the reason why the Church of God has at all times detested and prohibited clandestine marriages.

Cohabitation, however, is something very prickly. No one ever defines what it means, like it is some nicer way of stating a harsh truth that everyone already knows, but that is not fair. Not every instance of what could be called “cohabitation” is illicit behavior. What everyone SHOULD be taking exception with, if this is the case, is the assumption of conjugal life before the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. If this couple are taking on conjugal life and not yet married, then that is a HUGE grave sin!

To assume the name of the man, also, seems highly deceptive. It suggests a union is there which really isn’t.

If you had no good reason (i.e., fact) to believe that this man and woman were living in manifest grave sin, then I do not see that you sinned in writing the letter. However, you may wish to address this issue with your priest, since priests are highly versed in how to deal with such issues as far as whether you ought to retract your previous recommendation.

– Nicole
 
Not every instance of what could be called “cohabitation” is illicit behavior.
Click to expand...
Such as what kind of instances? A man living with a female relative, such as his mother or sister, is about all I can come up with. A man and woman shouldn’t be living together whether or not they are sexually active. Cohabitatoin is what it says- living together. If they are having sex, which they most probably are if they are living together, that’s fornication.

To the OP: Talk to the person you recommended. Tell them why you can no longer recommend them unless he immediately ceases cohabitating and/or fornicating with his girlfriend, and gets to confession. If he refuses, he has given you an answer- his personal choices come before Church teaching, in which case you can not recommend him for a position of leadership in the Church and must withdraw the recommendation.

Pax and God Bless.
 
Dan_Daly said:
Such as what kind of instances? A man living with a female relative, such as his mother or sister, is about all I can come up with. A man and woman shouldn’t be living together whether or not they are sexually active. Cohabitatoin is what it says- living together. If they are having sex, which they most probably are if they are living together, that’s fornication.

To the OP: Talk to the person you recommended. Tell them why you can no longer recommend them unless he immediately ceases cohabitating and/or fornicating with his girlfriend, and gets to confession. If he refuses, he has given you an answer- his personal choices come before Church teaching, in which case you can not recommend him for a position of leadership in the Church and must withdraw the recommendation.

Pax and God Bless.
Click to expand...
A priest is allowed to have a woman live with him, whether a mother, sister or aunt or other woman above reproach, by the first Nicene Council. That would not be illicit behavior.

Also, men are allowed to have their non-familial female housekeepers and servants live in the same house, cohabitating, and it is not illicit behavior.

Conjugal life before marriage is the illicit behavior, not necessarily cohabitation.

– Nicole
 
A priest is allowed to have a woman live with him, whether a mother, sister or aunt or other woman above reproach, by the first Nicene Council. That would not be illicit behavior.
Click to expand...
Also, men are allowed to have their non-familial female housekeepers and servants live in the same house, cohabitating, and it is not illicit behavior.
Click to expand...
And none of those situations apply here. The man is not a priest. The woman is not his housekeeper or servant. Exceptional circumstances which don’t apply to the actual circumstances are irrelevant.

That an unmarried man and woman live together, barring special circumstances such as those you mention, is a source of scandal and a sin, whether or not they engage in sexual relations.

Pax and God Bless.
 
Dan_Daly said:
Such as what kind of instances? A man living with a female relative, such as his mother or sister, is about all I can come up with. A man and woman shouldn’t be living together whether or not they are sexually active. Cohabitatoin is what it says- living together. If they are having sex, which they most probably are if they are living together, that’s fornication.

To the OP: Talk to the person you recommended. Tell them why you can no longer recommend them unless he immediately ceases cohabitating and/or fornicating with his girlfriend, and gets to confession. If he refuses, he has given you an answer- his personal choices come before Church teaching, in which case you can not recommend him for a position of leadership in the Church and must withdraw the recommendation.

Pax and God Bless.
Click to expand...
I rent a room in a house that is owned by a male (he is only home on weekends.) I am single , do not date, and I am celibate. So you are saying I am living in sin :confused:
 
George_Stegmeir said:
If you have not written the letter, do not do so until you have talked with the individual. If his response is that it is his private business, then politly refuse to write the letter and tell him why,
If you have already written the letter,** honesty demands that you contact the addressee and let him know that you have been duped** and that you wish to withdraw your recommendation.
If this person is a Eucharistic Minister and is Cohabiting without benefit of Catholic Marriage, your Pastor should be informed because that in itself is a source of scandal. That sort of behavior on the part of a Eucharistic Minister is an affront to our Lord and Savior and cannot be justified.
Click to expand...
But the OP doesn’t know he has been duped. Right now, all he is going on is gossip. Imagine if the OP passes on this gossip, and in turn the OP loses the position? Or the OP passes on the gossip and something is said to the woman in question.
 
maryjk said:
But the OP doesn’t know he has been duped. Right now, all he is going on is gossip. Imagine if the OP passes on this gossip, and in turn the OP loses the position? Or the OP passes on the gossip and something is said to the woman in question.
Click to expand...
Exactly. And what if they get married, say, in the next year? Would the gossip continue “Thank God they got married…did you know they were living in SIN before the marriage???”

I don’t see where there’s any deception going on. The person in question was asked whether or not he and his GF were married, and he said no.

You had no certain knowledge when you wrote the letter. If it is important to whoever is deciding on this person, it needs to be asked by them.

Don’t worry about having sinned, but if it bothers you, which it seems that it might, go to confession and ask for advice.
 
Newbie2 said:
Exactly. And what if they get married, say, in the next year? Would the gossip continue “Thank God they got married…did you know they were living in SIN before the marriage???”

I don’t see where there’s any deception going on. The person in question was asked whether or not he and his GF were married, and he said no.

You had no certain knowledge when you wrote the letter. If it is important to whoever is deciding on this person, it needs to be asked by them.

Don’t worry about having sinned, but if it bothers you, which it seems that it might, go to confession and ask for advice.
Click to expand...
Yeah, your idea about confession and advice is probably what I’m going to do.

To clarify, he asked me in person to write the letter. I agreed. Then he emailed me details about it and his fiance’s name was used for the name of the email account and she now had his surname. It made me stop and think. I wondered if they had gotten married but he is divorced and so I thought it might take longer than that for an annulment, etc. I fear that I sinned by not questioning him at that point (but I didn’t want to involve myself in his personal life).

Anyway, I wrote the letter, perhaps with some willful blindness on my part even though I had no evidence that there was any cohabitation. A couple of weeks later, the first time I saw the couple, I came out and asked them if they had gotten married. They said “no”. I was surprised and mumbled something about noticing the female had changed her surname. The male made some comment that they thought she “might as well”. I was more shocked and should’ve asked what he meant but I didn’t. After that, I spoke to a saintly and (non-gossiping) woman about it. This woman had actually asked me if I’ve seen this guy lately. I told her what I’ve told you all. She was surprised because she had assumed they were married because she was sure that the female had talked about selling her house and moving to the geographic area where the male lives.

Anyway, I like to think the best of people, but I am 99% sure they are living together. I feel duped because he knows the Church’s teachings very well and he asked me to write this letter which was supposed to speak of his moral character. Anyway, it’s not my business what he’s doing except for the fact that I wrote a glowing letter saying he was a good, upstanding Catholic Christian. I just don’t want to hurt him by asking him (if it turns out I’m wrong) and if I’m correct, then I’m not sure if he duped me or if he just thinks he can make his own rules about morality. I will also add that I care about these two people and it breaks my heart if they are doing wrong (but I don’t want to be the one to tell them this).

Thanks for listening and your thoughts on this.
 
At some point, you can ask, “Say, why haven’t you two gotten married yet? You’d make a perfect husband/wife team” . 😃

Doesn’t hurt to ask…😉
 
BrushedByAngels said:
I rent a room in a house that is owned by a male (he is only home on weekends.) I am single , do not date, and I am celibate. So you are saying I am living in sin :confused:
Click to expand...
Are you related to the man you rent from? Is he married? Does his wife live there as well? Do you have an apartment or just a bedroom- meaning you share bathroom, kitchen, etc when he is there?

Pax
 
Not related at all. He is single. I have my own room and bathroom. Kitchen is shared. I hardly see that as cohabitating. I consider cohabitating sharing a home with your sexual partner (whether you intend to marry them or not) and is grave sin.
 
BrushedByAngels said:
Not related at all. He is single. I have my own room and bathroom. Kitchen is shared. I hardly see that as cohabitating. I consider cohabitating sharing a home with your sexual partner (whether you intend to marry them or not) and is grave sin.
Click to expand...
I don’t know either of you, but based on what you’ve said, I’d at least be concerned about there being both a temptation of sin resulting from the arrangement- either for you or him, as well as an appearance that something may be going on that isn’t giving scandal to others.

Pax and God Bless.
 
You’ve got bigger problems than your letter! You say the priest himself wrote a recommendation? You say this fellow is a EMHC in the parish? So your priest is, possibly knowingly, allowing a sacrilege?

The critical issue is not this letter, although you may wish to send a simple retraction saying you were uncertain of the man’s living status when you wrote it (that’s all you need to say).

The issue is why on earth is this man, not only living in sin, but in deceit by the girlfriend changing her name, an EMHC?!? That is an outrage I would speak to the priest about immediately. Just tell him factually what you know and that’s all, the decision is the priest’s. Then you’ve done your part.
 
Margie9 said:
You’ve got bigger problems than your letter! You say the priest himself wrote a recommendation? You say this fellow is a EMHC in the parish? So your priest is, possibly knowingly, allowing a sacrilege?

The critical issue is not this letter, although you may wish to send a simple retraction saying you were uncertain of the man’s living status when you wrote it (that’s all you need to say).

**The issue is why on earth is this man, not only living in sin, **but in deceit by the girlfriend changing her name, an EMHC?!? That is an outrage I would speak to the priest about immediately. Just tell him factually what you know and that’s all, the decision is the priest’s. Then you’ve done your part.
Click to expand...
No one knows for a fact that he is living in sin. It is gossip, a rumor, nothing more.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top