Cohen's re-written "Hallelujah" at Mass?

[pianistclare]

The term “Novus Ordo” was coined by the “Traditionalists” who believe that the mass of Pope Paul VI is invalid. It is not a proper term for the liturgy revised by Pope Paul VI after Vatican II. The proper term is “the mass” or the “Latin Rite.” It may be celebrated in Latin or in the common language of the people, called the “vernacular”. Currently, celebration in any language other than the vernacular requires permission of the local ordinary (bishop). Revision of the English version of this liturgy is currently in process.

The so-called “Tridentine Rite” is also misnamed. It is properly called the mass according to the Roman Missal of 1962, or even the liturgy of Pope Pius X, although he was not the last to revise it. Permission for it’s use was withdrawn by Pope Paul VI, but restored by Pope John Paul II, with permission of the local ordinary. When such permission is granted, it’s called an “indult” leading to the derogatory term “indult mass” by the “Traditionalists”. Pope Benedict XVI is reportedly considering removing the requirement that the local ordinary has to give permission to celebrate the mass in Latin.

When I use the term “traditionalist” I am referring to schismatic sects that claim the use of English in the mass invalidated the Church, and that they have “restored” it.

So use of the term “Novus Ordo” to refer to the proper liturgy of the Catholic Church is derogatory and should be avoided.

 

[Crocus]

I cringe at the thought of this song (any version) being used at mass. The melody is powerful and has the ability to pull its original lyrics with it, profaning the sacred space and, to my sensibilities, the name of the Lord.

 

[Spyridon]

Kansas’ “Dust in the Wind”

That would be a good song to play as the recessional at a Requiem Mass.

 

[casslean]

I don’t find the song irreverent, and I doubt most people will bother going to do the research into the original to allow it to profane the Mass, but I dislike it nonetheless. I find it drags and doesn’t add to the Mass. If they want a contemporary song on the Easter story, there are lots of good options among the contemporary Christian artists today.

 

[babochka]

Honestly, with all the good music out there to choose from, is it really necessary to rewrite somebody’s favorite pop songs into Mass songs?

I get what you’re saying about re-writing pop songs. I think it would be particularly troubling if it were a well-known song with problematic lyrics (as is the song being discussed).

In principle, though, I see nothing wrong with composing new lyrics for existing melodies and it is pretty common. The aforementioned “Greensleeves/What Child is This” comes to mind as well as the National Anthem of the United States, which was written to the tune of a British drinking song. And there is Londonderry Air, which has many, many sets of lyrics set to it, but is most famously known as “Danny Boy”. If you flip through a standard hymnal today, several of the songs will have notes that they are “to the tune of” a previous song.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

The songs you mention were rewritten hundreds of years ago. When I hear the National Anthem, I do not associate it with a 300-year-old drinking song as I have never heard it in that context.
Likewise, I do not know the original lyrics of “Greensleeves” and have never heard any lyrics sung to “Londonderry Air” other than “Danny Boy”.

By contrast, a pop song that is at most a couple decades old has not been around long enough to fall into “folk melody” status, and the rewriting is generally done by someone who is a fan of the original song but understands that the lyrics are grossly inappropriate for church. Also, the people listening to the song usually have heard the original and likewise it will bring up the thoughts in their head of the original lyric.

 

[Hereiam]

Novus Ordo is legit terminology

For those who are illiterate in Latin…there is nothing “new” about a legitamate form of the Mass authorized by the Church over half a century ago.

 

[Phemie]

I don’t find the song irreverent, and I doubt most people will bother going to do the research into the original to allow it to profane the Mass, but I dislike it nonetheless. I find it drags and doesn’t add to the Mass. If they want a contemporary song on the Easter story, there are lots of good options among the contemporary Christian artists today.

I think there are enough people who have grown up with that song that they don’t need to research the lyrics. Obviously they don’t use all the verses in Shrek or it would cease to be a kid appropriate movie. Many artists who’ve recorded the song don’t use all of Cohen’s lyrics.

 

[casslean]

I think there are enough people who have grown up with that song that they don’t need to research the lyrics. Obviously they don’t use all the verses in Shrek or it would cease to be a kid appropriate movie. Many artists who’ve recorded the song don’t use all of Cohen’s lyrics.

I’ve spent enough time in bars on karaoke night to know that the fact that people grew up with the song does NOT mean they know the lyrics.

They know the chorus. Really, really well. And the first line. The rest of it, not so much.

 

[Medawlinno]

I wonder what the people thought who heard What Child is This for the first time?

You beat me to this - exactly my thought - there are probably quite a few “tunes” now associated with “church” that have been adopted from secular songs - as an aside, the tune for our national anthem was derived from an old English drinking song!

“My Lady Greensleves”, I highly doubt, was ever written with the intent of it becoming a well-liked Christmas carol.

 

[Medawlinno]

300 years from now, people may well be thinking the same thing about “Hallelujah”.

 

[Medawlinno]

Dang, guess the National Anthem’s already been covered too!

 

[JanetF]

Music is fine, but lyrics may be an issue.

BTW: How many different sets of lyrics have been set to Beethoven’s Ode to Joy?

 

[kehwhelan]

So to get to my ORIGINAL question, as someone has most graciously done above, I’ll ask my parish leaders if this particular song has been approved by my local bishop (Diocese of Albany, btw) or by the wider U.S. CCB. If not I’ll ask them to consider not singing it at Mass in the future. If it has been approved, so be it.

As for using the term Novus Ordo, you say potato, I say solanum tuberosum.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

300 years from now is fine. I won’t be around to see it or hear it.

 

[Medawlinno]

Honestly, the thing’s starting to become cliché. How many versions are people gonna make of it??

 

[JulianN]

I don’t think anyone thinks Cohen’s lyrics are appropriate!

 

[LilyM]

The traditional melody that we use with the song ‘pange lingua’ on Holy Thursday was from a marching song used by Julius Caesar’s soldiers - with accompanying filthy lyrics.

There is nothing wrong with taking something that has a non-Christian bent - wedding veils and rings, the title Pontifex Maximus or Pontiff, Christmas trees - and giving it a Christian reframing.

 

[Roseeurekacross]

never mind

 

[TheLittleLady]

I get what you’re saying about re-writing pop songs

Makes me remember the episode of South Park where Cartman became a Christian Music star. He would simply take love songs and replace the word “babe” or “girl” to say “Lord”.