coherence of original sin doctrine

[famdigy]

The OT teaches that Sins are not inherited as shown in the few passages from exodus.

Exodus 21:12 “He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death.”

Exodus 21:14 “If, however, a man acts presumptuously toward his neighbor, so as to kill him craftily, you are to take him even from My altar, that he may die.”

Exodus 21:17 “He who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.”

Exodus 31:15 “For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a (B)sabbath of complete rest, holy to the LORD; (C)whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death.”

my question is why did Jesus have to be born in flesh in order to pay for Adam’s original sin having known that sins are not inherited?

And if God has the ability to turn to flesh then he also has the ability to forgive Adam’s sin without resorting to a bloody crusifixion, so why hasn’t he simply forgiven Adam?

another inconcistancy is that Original sin is unristricted by time or person. For many generations from Adam’s Era up to Jesus’s people were inheriting Adam’s sin. So how is it a restricted God in flesh can nullify an unrestricted sin. By restricted I mean human limitations in four dimensions, length (or depth), width, and height + time or space. Jesus in flesh was limited in all four dimensions, he had x length, y width, z height and lived 30-33 years. Logically in order for one side to completely cancel out the opposite side, both sides must be equal. However, Jesus being sent as God in flesh (restricted) is not enough to cancel out the unrestricted judgement passed onto Adam.

 

[06convert]

Well. God transcends time. Time as we know it only exists in the material world. In the spiritual world everything is eternally present.

As Catholics we emphasize on the teachings in the New Testament with a focus on the Gospels. Not that the Old Testament is wrong, it’s just not as easy to grasp on certain teachings.

CCC 402-404

Everyone Affected (402-403)
All are implicated in sin. “Death spread to all men because all men sinned” (Rom 5:12). However, all are offered salvation in Jesus Christ. “One man’s act of righteousness leads to acquittal and life for all men” (Rom 5:18).

This overwhelming misery which oppresses is connected with the fact that Adam’s sin has been transmitted to all at birth. This sin is the “death of the soul.” Therefore, the Church baptizes even tiny infants “for the remission of sins” (Council of Trent).

Transmission of Effects (404)
We do not exactly know how this “original sin” is transmitted. Adam and Eve were supposed to transmit original holiness and justice to everyone. In their “fallen state” they could only pass on a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. Therefore, original sin differs from other sins. It is contracted (a state) not committed (an act).

As for the reasoning behind Jesus being born into flesh. The reasons are numerous. The most simple of them is because God loves us and wants us to have eternal life. We humans aren’t too smart, so God sent us a perfect example.

Jesus would not have been much of a credible example if he just had this easy life going around forgiving sins and not ever experiencing any pain and suffering.

 

[Reuben_J]

The OT teaches that Sins are not inherited as shown in the few passages from exodus.

my question is why did Jesus have to be born in flesh in order to pay for Adam’s original sin having known that sins are not inherited?

And if God has the ability to turn to flesh then he also has the ability to forgive Adam’s sin without resorting to a bloody crusifixion, so why hasn’t he simply forgiven Adam?

another inconcistancy is that Original sin is unristricted by time or person. For many generations from Adam’s Era up to Jesus’s people were inheriting Adam’s sin. So how is it a restricted God in flesh can nullify an unrestricted sin. By restricted I mean human limitations in four dimensions, length (or depth), width, and height + time or space. Jesus in flesh was limited in all four dimensions, he had x length, y width, z height and lived 30-33 years. Logically in order for one side to completely cancel out the opposite side, both sides must be equal. However, Jesus being sent as God in flesh (restricted) is not enough to cancel out the unrestricted judgement passed onto Adam.

I would like to approach this in a purely layman term (which means I’m quite a dummy in theology ).

First thing to accept is that we live in a fallen world. It was not so in the beginning. Everything was good. Toady we experience death and suffering. This is definitely not the way God wanted it.

The next thing to know is why this is so? The answer is obvious; our forefather sinned by disobeying God and got the consequence. They were driven out of paradise.

God plan is to bring back his original plan. He could not go against his own justice. He had to be faithful to his own rule. Thus he could not just forgive our forefather as if nothing happened.

He said the wages of sin is death. Thus sin must be paid by death. Question is who can pay for the sin? Not Adam not anybody else. God himself only can do it if he chose to.

Thus the reason for Jesus.

Original sin is not a sin per se. It is the propensity to sin. It is the reality of the fallen world. No amount of our repentance can make up for the mistake of the forefather. We can only do as much but we cannot return back to it once was. Jesus therefore only can be the savior to all that.

The rest I need some theologian here to explain the details.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

The OT teaches that Sins are not inherited as shown in the few passages from exodus.

How do these passages relate to original sin? The “original sin” is that committed by Adam and Eve in Genesis. The consequences of which, the OT tells us, are endured by Adam and Eve as well as the progeny of Adam and Eve.

So, we do not inherit “original justice” as was enjoyed by Adam and Eve in paradise. Instead, we inherit the consequences of the “original sin” of Adam and Eve, unless God Himself intervenes supernaturally.

Another way of saying it, we are not born holy through *natural *generation. Instead, we must instead be “born again” or “born from above” in order to receive supernatural Divine gifts.

why did Jesus have to be born in flesh in order to pay for Adam’s original sin having known that sins are not inherited?

Personal sins are not inherited. Original sin is.

However, Jesus did not have to be born in the flesh, absolutely speaking. Because God is All-Powerful, God could have restored us to Him in many number of ways. However, God determined it was most fitting to restore us in a very specific way, by sending us His Son.

Which ever way God chose to restore man’s communion with Him, it must be understood that man, as an imperfect finite being, could not reconcile himself to an infinite perfect God. Only God can reconcile man again with God.

God had to do it. God chose to do it through his Incarnate Son. Many other ways were possible for God.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

…another inconcistancy is that Original sin is unristricted by time or person…

Your understanding of the doctrine of original sin is incorrect.

Catholicism teaches that human nature of Adam and Eve after their “original sin” in Genesis, remained the same, but the preternatural gifts and supernatural gifts were removed (as punishment). In other words, Adam’s human nature was just like all of humanity, except that his nature was supercharged with supernatural and preternatural catalysts (gifts) that intrinsically elevated his human nature. After the fall, the catalyst was removed. In this sense, human nature was intrinsically changed (due to the lack of divine catalysts). The nature is said to be damaged, but strictly speaking, it is the same nature as it was before, but without the supernatural catalyst (grace), it is a “fallen” nature (as opposed to a once “elevated” nature), it is a “concupiscent” nature, also called a “sinful” nature. Catholicism teaches that this sinful nature can still desire the good, but it is not likely without the gift of grace (Divine catalyst).

This is in stark contrast to the erroneous view of “total depravity.” Catholics would say depraved, yes, but not totally depraved. God creates every human nature. God only creates good. But, without the help of supernatural gifts, our (good) natural gifts are at a disadvantage in dealing with the temptations of Satan. In other words, without grace our natural selfishness is bound to result in personal sin.

The notion of original sin is simply the assertion that natural generation does not produce Original Justice (sanctification). One must be born again. One must be “saved.” Both the OT and NT affirm that God is our Savior.

…a restricted God in flesh

Jesus is not “a restricted God in flesh.” His is both God and man. So, your conclusion is hampered by an incorrect premise. God can never be restricted. So, the Incarnate Jesus is all-powerful God who, by His Divine power became man without diminishing or changing his Divinity in any way. He is true God and true man.