Coitis Interuptis with NFP

[LilyM]

I think she means hygienic as in “leaking throughout the day” and being messy. Which it is.

And there is no problem with bearing down and wiping oneself afterwards - what’s inside is inside - the rest of it left behind in the vagina isn’t going to suddenly get inside - it’s gonna leak out. May as well get rid of it right away, if one wishes. How does one talk about this tactfully?

And yes, it’s a good idea to urinate afterwards to avoid UTIs.

Well God fobid any of you ever WANT to have children - pregancy involves a heck of a lot worse than a bit of semen y’know! May as well get used to the whole gloriously(?) messy kit’n’caboodle from the beginning.

(Doesn’t apply to you, sancta, I know you’re a mother already )

In all seriousness, just wear a pantyliner if necessary. And of course urination afterwards is a good idea.

 

[stadre]

Better bone up on your biology, it doesn’t “do it’s job” instantaneously. People trying to get pregnant are often instructed to lay with hips elevated to help the sperm reach their objective.

yes, I know about leaking, but this isn’t an issue of convenience…or at least I thought it wasn’t according to the church. Removal of the semen because it’s a “bother” doesn’t strike me as being totally giving. " I love you honey, but yuk, residue, how unhygenic, let me hurry to the bathroom to pee, bear down and rid myself of your gift of self and life…"

how loving is that?

The reasons for eliminating seminal fluid are:

1. to prevent confusion in mucus observations
2. to prevent bladder infections &
3. to avoid the discomfort of an additional discharge
   in that order.

When making mucus observations, SF can look like peak type mucus. As for your quote about hygiene, all I can say is that you are fortunate to not have this problem. As a woman who had frequent and debilitating UTI’s after intercourse, I can assure you that this is not an insult to DH. In fact, the instructions I follow are a lot easier, kinder and less invasive that what I used to have to do to avoid the UTI’s.

As for biology, I would need to have your references. Mine (as a Creighton instructor) assure me that as soon as the SF comes into contact with cervical mucus, there is no way to stop the sperm from penetrating. By the time the woman gets up and gets to the bathroom, the sperm are already through the cervix. Removing seminal fluid is not the same as removing semen.

 

[whatevergirl]

Semen 'makes women happy’

Women exposed to their partner’s semen during sex may find themselves feeling happier than those who use a condom, say scientists. Scientists in the US believe the mood-altering hormones in semen absorbed through the vagina help to boost women’s mood.
Semen contains a range of hormones, including testosterone and oestrogen, both of which have been shown to improve mood.

more…

what??? that is fascinating!

 

[mamacita]

Better bone up on your biology, it doesn’t “do it’s job” instantaneously. People trying to get pregnant are often instructed to lay with hips elevated to help the sperm reach their objective.

yes, I know about leaking, but this isn’t an issue of convenience…or at least I thought it wasn’t according to the church. Removal of the semen because it’s a “bother” doesn’t strike me as being totally giving. " I love you honey, but yuk, residue, how unhygenic, let me hurry to the bathroom to pee, bear down and rid myself of your gift of self and life…"

how loving is that?

**So are you trying to say that those of us that don’t lay with hips elevated are not being “loving” because the gift of life can’t take place? Are we sinning because we are not “elevating our hips” to try to get the full effect everytime?? It sure sounds like you think we should lay there all night and not go to the bathroom?? Sorry but I can’t stand that wetness feeling on my underwear. A woman is not fertile everyday, so therefore, bearing down, urinating, etc, is not wrong because she may not be fertile at that time,right?? **

 

[cheddarsox]

**So are you trying to say that those of us that don’t lay with hips elevated are not being “loving” because the gift of life can’t take place? Are we sinning because we are not “elevating our hips” to try to get the full effect everytime?? It sure sounds like you think we should lay there all night and not go to the bathroom?? Sorry but I can’t stand that wetness feeling on my underwear. A woman is not fertile everyday, so therefore, bearing down, urinating, etc, is not wrong because she may not be fertile at that time,right?? **

I’m not claiming anything is sinful. I am rather surprised that semen is being referred to as unhygenic, and women are talking about getting up to quickly rid themselves of it…the same who often talk about how wonderful NFP is, all about love and giving and receiving and being total and not rejecting any part of what the partner has to offer…etc. etc.

This does seem like an inconsistent mindset to all that other good stuff.

“Hurry, lets get that semen out of there so I can check my mucus accurately tomorrow, so we can have more sex without pregnancy…” sorry. That is how it came across to me.

If NFP is more than just fulfilling the letter of the law, but a mindset of total giving, trust and love. Then rushing to eject the maximum amount of semen possible, does smack of not being so loving.

It feels like using NFP with a less than loving, trusting mindset, which, I have been told here on CAF, is NOT the Catholic use of it.

It seems inconsistent.

 

[pumpkinbeast]

I’m not claiming anything is sinful. I am rather surprised that semen is being referred to as unhygenic, and women are talking about getting up to quickly rid themselves of it…the same who often talk about how wonderful NFP is, all about love and giving and receiving and being total and not rejecting any part of what the partner has to offer…etc. etc.

This does seem like an inconsistent mindset to all that other good stuff.

“Hurry, lets get that semen out of there so I can check my mucus accurately tomorrow, so we can have more sex without pregnancy…” sorry. That is how it came across to me.

If NFP is more than just fulfilling the letter of the law, but a mindset of total giving, trust and love. Then rushing to eject the maximum amount of semen possible, does smack of not being so loving.

It feels like using NFP with a less than loving, trusting mindset, which, I have been told here on CAF, is NOT the Catholic use of it.

It seems inconsistent.

I don’t think there is that much of a hurry, most of the time… I’m not married, so I don’t know, but I don’t think I would want to jump out of bed just after my husband had finished his part of the act, and rush to the bathroom. I don’t think people are doing that. The loving part is in accepting the gift where it is supposed to go. Bearing down and urinating and stuff is more like discarding the wrapping paper. The packaging has done it’s job, and is no longer needed. For some people, the process of getting rid of the seminal fluid might be unloving, and they might have the mindset you’re describing, but most people who practice NFP don’t have that attitude. They just don’t want the ‘wrapping paper’ dripping out of them for that long.

 

[StratusRose]

I’m not claiming anything is sinful. I am rather surprised that semen is being referred to as unhygenic, and women are talking about getting up to quickly rid themselves of it…the same who often talk about how wonderful NFP is, all about love and giving and receiving and being total and not rejecting any part of what the partner has to offer…etc. etc.

This does seem like an inconsistent mindset to all that other good stuff.

"Hurry, lets get that semen out of there so I can check my mucus accurately tomorrow, so we can have more sex without pregnancy…" sorry. That is how it came across to me.

If NFP is more than just fulfilling the letter of the law, but a mindset of total giving, trust and love. Then rushing to eject the maximum amount of semen possible, does smack of not being so loving.

It feels like using NFP with a less than loving, trusting mindset, which, I have been told here on CAF, is NOT the Catholic use of it.

It seems inconsistent.

Have you not read anything other posters have been saying? You are simply repeating yourself and the basis for your argument is crumbling. You’re putting words in people’s mouths by saying that they want the sex with no babies by bearing down after sex. The semen has already done its job!! No where have I ever read that going to the bathroom after sex to “clean up” is wrong or unloving. It’s going to come out anyway, isn’t that in itself natural?

 

[DailyBread]

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=1591691%between%
I think astegallrnc’s response at 22 will help clear things up…

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I’m not claiming anything is sinful. I am rather surprised that semen is being referred to as unhygenic, and women are talking about getting up to quickly rid themselves of it…the same who often talk about how wonderful NFP is, all about love and giving and receiving and being total and not rejecting any part of what the partner has to offer…etc. etc.

This does seem like an inconsistent mindset to all that other good stuff.

“Hurry, lets get that semen out of there so I can check my mucus accurately tomorrow, so we can have more sex without pregnancy…” sorry. That is how it came across to me.

If NFP is more than just fulfilling the letter of the law, but a mindset of total giving, trust and love. Then rushing to eject the maximum amount of semen possible, does smack of not being so loving.

It feels like using NFP with a less than loving, trusting mindset, which, I have been told here on CAF, is NOT the Catholic use of it.

It seems inconsistent.

I think that the fault here lies because you are making interpreations of what everyone is saying. I am not sure if it is because you have a problem with NFP, with sex, with the love of a husband and wife, or just with a Catholic’s view of sex? As it was just mentioned by Stratus Rose, your arguement is losing its “punch” (so to speak) when you continue to make assumptions.

Your view that the marital embrace consists of the husband climaxing inside his wife and then in a matter of seconds she gets up and runs to the bathroom to urinate and bear down to get rid of all of the semen that is inside of her. Correct me if I am wrong, but your posts have clearly stated that this is your view. You are saying that this is unloving and no one has ever said that you should run up and take care of this as soon as the marital act is complete.

I feel that you are missing the point of the entire discussion. You have turned this into a debate of NFP and being open to life when the OP’s question was:

sock89:

My wife and I are trying our best to follow church teaching. We practice NFP and obstain during fertile times right now for spacing and finacial reasons.

Even during the safe times, my wife does not like for me to remain in her until completion. She says that she (here goes) does not want the stuff coming out over a period of time.

The technical question is…does one have to deposit the entire amount or is “some” enough? Say I start to release inside and then stop and release the rest outside…good, bad, indifferent?

If you want to touch on the specific question that he has raised then lets do that. If you would like to discuss NFP and being open to life that would be for another thread.

As you can see from the OP, the question is that his wife does not want the semen to come out over a long period of time, others have offered their suggestions on how to remedy this. I am not a female, I am not aware of this feeling and think that the advice given by other women has been sufficient, kind, loving and respectful. For some reason (I am not sure why) you want to twist it into something disrespectful and “unloving?”

To the OP: I would echo what the others have said about the ways to assist your wife and would say that to “pull out” after starting your climax would be not completing the marital act. It is like being in prayer and saying…“Our Father who art in heaven hollowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be…” and getting up to go do something else.

 

[Dandelion_Wine]

!!! hygienic reasons? Is this implying that semen is unhygienic?
Expelling semen purposely, to make observation easier>>>sort of smacks of not so much trusting God, but “yeah, well, we completed the act right, but now we are going to whisk away these er…troublesome…residues.”

That “residue” is what makes babies.

Calling it unhygienic and hurrying to rid oneself of it…not very NATURAL.

“Residue” is YOUR word.
“Hurrying to rid oneself of it” is YOUR phrase.

You’re putting words in people’s mouths by saying that they want the sex with no babies by bearing down after sex.

I think that the fault here lies because you are making interpreations of what everyone is saying.

Thanks for saying what I was thinking.

I didn’t post that our NFP practictioner told us to get out of bed as soon as the act is complete so we could rid ourself of some residue. For those who want to know and aren’t going to be combative about it, what she told us was that when we were ready, my wife should do kegel exercise to help prevent UTIs.

 

[cheddarsox]

To all,

I am not in any way debating NFP. When I read some of the posts reguarding seminal fluid, they honestly came across to me as being less than totally open and loving.

Since ridding oneself of seminal fluid is NOT an essential part of NFP, I don’t think that voicing my opinion of that is dissing NFP.

Ridding oneself of seminal fluid for the purpose of making it easier to read mucus to tell if it is a “safe” day ( I hate that term, because it implies that getting pregnant is dangerous), does smack, to me, of not being open to life.

That is how it feels to me. Like the woman is saying, through her actions, “I don’t want your yucky stuff oozing out of me.”

Personally, I find it a wonderful reminder of lovemaking. It brings a smile to my face and a swell to my heart.

Just voicing my opinion.

 

[whatevergirl]

I’m not claiming anything is sinful. I am rather surprised that semen is being referred to as unhygenic, and women are talking about getting up to quickly rid themselves of it…the same who often talk about how wonderful NFP is, all about love and giving and receiving and being total and not rejecting any part of what the partner has to offer…etc. etc.

This does seem like an inconsistent mindset to all that other good stuff.

“Hurry, lets get that semen out of there so I can check my mucus accurately tomorrow, so we can have more sex without pregnancy…” sorry. That is how it came across to me.

If NFP is more than just fulfilling the letter of the law, but a mindset of total giving, trust and love. Then rushing to eject the maximum amount of semen possible, does smack of not being so loving.

It feels like using NFP with a less than loving, trusting mindset, which, I have been told here on CAF, is NOT the Catholic use of it.

It seems inconsistent.

Acutally, from a health standpoint…if ‘it’ sits ‘in there’ too long, it can cause a UTI.

 

[Ziggamafu]

Not to be graphic, but guess we’ve crossed that bridge…

We use NFP too (Creighton), and this topic is addressed to some extent, mostly to allow the woman to take proper observations the next morning. During “clean-up”, does she “bear down” to umm, squeeze the seminal fluid out? If not, she can try that.

According to Moral Theology, by Fr. Heribert Jone, what you are describing may be gravely sinful.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

According to Moral Theology, by Fr. Heribert Jone, what you are describing may be gravely sinful.

Could you please provide his quote and support saying that “bearing down to release semen” is a “grave sin.”

I humbly disagree.

 

[Questionsabound]

The “bearing down” and expelling of semen immediately after intercourse was tought in the NFP class we went to.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

The “bearing down” and expelling of semen immediately after intercourse was tought in the NFP class we went to.

:yup:

 

[Ziggamafu]

Could you please provide his quote and support saying that “bearing down to release semen” is a “grave sin.”

I humbly disagree.

MORAL THEOLOGY
by Fr. Heribert Jone
b) Onanism is…done especially…c) by applying pressure on the vagina to expel the semen
…
a) “A woman sins gravely by expelling the semenal fluid or preventing its entry into the uterus. It is not sinful to do so if she is the victim of rape or deception provided she does so before conception, since in this instance the semen is equivalent to an unjust aggressor. Urination after coition does not prevent conception and hence is not sinful; however, one may sin gravely by resorting to it with an evil intention.”

 

[StratusRose]

MORAL THEOLOGY
by Fr. Heribert Jone
b) Onanism is…done especially…c) by applying pressure on the vagina to expel the semen
…
a) “A woman sins gravely by expelling the semenal fluid or preventing its entry into the uterus. It is not sinful to do so if she is the victim of rape or deception provided she does so before conception, since in this instance the semen is equivalent to an unjust aggressor. Urination after coition does not prevent conception and hence is not sinful; however, one may sin gravely by resorting to it with an evil intention.”

I think this is what we are talking about here…going to the bathroom. When women urinate, they have to squeeze their muscles to do so, which, in effect, expells the semen. No one here is suggesting that a woman should deliberately expel semen to prevent conception. I think you are splitting hairs.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

MORAL THEOLOGY
by Fr. Heribert Jone
b) Onanism is…done especially…c) by applying pressure on the vagina to expel the semen
…
a) “A woman sins gravely by expelling the semenal fluid or preventing its entry into the uterus. It is not sinful to do so if she is the victim of rape or deception provided she does so before conception, since in this instance the semen is equivalent to an unjust aggressor. Urination after coition does not prevent conception and hence is not sinful; however, one may sin gravely by resorting to it with an evil intention.”

Thanks for posting that.

I think that what you have to bear in mind is that “Onanism” refers to what the male does, “spilling his seed” and not specifically to the woman.

I think that what Fr. Jone may be refering to is using the “bearing down” as a way to get all the semen out as to avoid conception. (I think). The one thing that needs to be pointed out is that we must remember how quickly after the male orgasm the semen and sperm get into the cervix.

“Bearing down” does not eliminate all of the sperm and semen as some of it has already “made it’s way” inside the cervix. To think that by simply “bearing down” you can avoid conception, would be a mistake.

“Bearing down” is used by women to get rid of excess semen after the marital act. This just “speeds” up a process that would happen anyway. Naturally the semen would begin to come out of the vagina throughout the day and this helps to take care of that sooner. This, as a part of NFP, is taught for hygenic reasons as well. As you can see that it was mentioned in your above post when Fr. Jone said “Urination after coition does not prevent conception and hence is not sinful; however, one may sin gravely by resorting to it with an evil intention.” I am not female and am not aware of what happens as she urinates after sex, but have read enough and talked to my DW enough to know that as you apply pressure to urinate semem will come out as well (sorry to be so graphic).

If after the husband has an orgasm the wife runs immediately to the bathroom and bears down, I can agree that this would be sinful as she has the wrong intention. Little does she know that the semen and sperm are already working their magic, if you will.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I think this is what we are talking about here…going to the bathroom. When women urinate, they have to squeeze their muscles to do so, which, in effect, expells the semen. No one here is suggesting that a woman should deliberately expel semen to prevent conception. I think you are splitting hairs.

See I knew that someone (a wife) could say this so much better than myself and in less words. Great post, SR!