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LatinCat
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Owning a computer will not send one to hell, but millitant unbelief in the face of the evidence of our ordered universe will.
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solarwind23
Guest
I’ve studied the evidence and found it severely lacking. There is certainly resonable doubt about whether the gospel Jesus even existed in the first place.
If God sends me to hell for not believing with the evidence that I’ve seen, I’ll gladly go because I won’t have anything to do with a deity who sends people to hell because they honestly concluded that there is insufficent evidence for a given religion.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. 4 gospels at least 30 years after Jesus’ death and Paul’s letters that fail to mention many of Jesus’ deeds and fail to quote him aren’t exactly extraordinary evidence in my book. They’re not even first hand witness accounts. Why should I give my life to a belief system based on this? It’s hardly fair to expect anyone to do this. If God wants me to believe all he has to do is provide solid evidence.
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MichaelTDoyle
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If we believe we are the measure of all things because we can order our lives as we see fit, it becomes difficult to allow for the mysterious nature of God. Our wealth and our will become impediments to faith. This and not “science” may be the cause for a difficulty with faith among high end professionals. A special effort I think is needed for us who have so much.
All things are possible with God.
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LatinCat
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That is interesting. You arbitrarily decided that miricles require extraordinary evidence. Hmmm. Guess you atheists get to make all the rules. I would like some extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that you get to decide that miracles require extraordinary evidence.
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solarwind23
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Let me explain why. Jesus is not the only ancient miracle worker, there are accounts of pagan heros performing healing and other miracles as well. Should I believe that?That is interesting. You arbitrarily decided that miricles require extraordinary evidence. Hmmm. Guess you atheists get to make all the rules. I would like some extraordinary evidence for the extraordinary claim that you get to decide that miracles require extraordinary evidence.
I bet now you could get a whole bunch of people claiming that they’ve experienced “faith healing” or people who witnessed this event.
I have spoken to a Charismatic Protestant who firmly believes she has the gift of tongues. She says she’s experienced it and witnessed other peopple experience it.
I remember seeing the story of a Hindu man who went without water for an incredibly long time or something along those lines.
Should I believe all of this? Come on. I mgiht as well believe people are being abducted by aliens.
Ghosts? Sure. You name it. What about psychics? There are tons that follow them!
What do we really know about Jesus’ miracles? We know what people 30 years after his death wrote down in the gospels. Before that the information travelled by word-of-mouth in a fairly backward culture. They wrote he healed people, multiplied bread/fish to feed many etc. This is all great, but second hand accoutns written 30 years later after the fact is in my opinion not very credible. We don’t even have people claiming to be healed in the gospels. Maybe they were word-of-mouth exaggerated legends that later got written down.
Paul wrote about Jesus 20 years after the fact, but Paul never saw Jesus.
If I’m going to use a standard of evidence that admits the gospels I’m going to have to admit ghost stories, abduction stories, faith healings, and above all every other ancient miracle story, pagan or otherwise.
Sorry, but until I see concrete evidence I’m not going to buy any of it.
If Jesus is real and wants me to believe, he can accomplish it in about a minute by appearing to me and one other person and letting me feel his wounds and doing something that only God could do.
That’s really all it would take.
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