Collect and collect...then select

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Ma.Eugenia

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****I was having a discussion with some of my friends and one of the guys in the group said that it was okay for guys to “collect and collect…and then select.”

Meaning, that for him, its alright that men to date many women at the same time to be able to choose the best one for him in the end.

It sounded s a bit “clinical” or me…as I think its best to let go of one relationship that is not working (first) before moving on to the next—it sounded to me, dating, for him was like a beauty contest (with him as a judge), or it was like an application for a job.:rolleyes:

Though, I do get his point that he needs to find out who will be best for him, is his method (dating multiple women at the same time) morally correct?
 
If he casually dates numerous women,not professing exclusivity to any of them, not hiding the fact that he is dating others from them, and dates while maintaining sexual purity, I don’t think it is immoral to date more than one person at a time.

Enjoying the company of numerous women before settling into a marriage decision does not automatically mean he is mistreating them.

I think it is fine for women to also date several men casually at once, as long as she is upfront with them about the situation, ie not leading any of them to think the relationship is exclusive or of a more serious nature than it is.
 
not hiding the fact that he is dating others from them
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I think this is the problem here. Some of the guys kidded him that one day he might get into trouble by calling one of the women another name by mistake.

So, I don’t think the women are aware that its not exclusive dating. Besides, I think one would really have to squeeze such information out of men before they admit that they are seeing other women to the women they are dating.

Wouldn’t that seriously jeopardize his chances with the woman who finds out?

I think that playing with people’s feelings and emotions is not a good thing.
 
When my mother was a young woman (in the 1930’s), it was common for both men and women to date a number of people at one time. She described it in a lighthearted and carefree way - people having fun with each other. At some point, they would develop strong feelings for one person and begin to date exclusively (going steady), then get engaged and married. But most of their dating lives was spent in casual dating.

I don’t know at what point in the 20th Century we switched from this to what we might call “serial monogamy,” that is dating one person at a time, or jumping directly into “going steady.” I’m not sure this is such a good idea. For one thing, it’s more difficult to remain chaste. For another, it creates a great deal of pressure to make emotional commitments that are inappropriate for people who will almost certainly not marry.

Betsy
 
😃 Hello baltobetsy,

Are you talking about group dates?🙂

Actually, on my part, I sometimes go on dates with my group. These are just for fun and I wasn’t seeing anyone there seriously–only as friends, though, of course there were some teasing as to can be a match. Pretty harmless. When I seriously like someone, I really concentrate my time and efforts to get to know that one person.

I’ve been thinking, you’re right that at first since you do not know yet whether the guy or gal (if the person asking is a guy) you are dating is the one for you, it is okay to go out with others because obviously it isn’t serious yet, you are free to see others.

But wouldn’t you know after the first month if its going to work out or not? Wouldn’t it be right for the person (by that time) to either “cut the line” or fess up that it isn’t really that serous with him/her and he/she is seeing other people —and if it is okay with both parties, then they still go out?

What is the right time frame for a person to decide to go from polyamory (means many loves–I researched the word, didn’t come straight from my head :D) to monoamory or just continue with polyamory?

I am thinking, how can a person really get to know another person if his/her attention is divided to many possibilities? For that matter, how can anyone be seriously consider someone who you know is considering others at the same time?

I think its not right to let a person hang on to the mistaken belief that a relationship is exclusive or more serious than it is for a long time. More so, if he/she is clueless about this and the rest of the “world” knows.

Just my thoughts. Sorry if my questions are a bit ridiculous. 🙂
 
No, I’m not talking about group dates. These guys and gals simply paired off differently every weekend for fun dates like bowling or dancing or movies. I suppose after three or four times around the cycle, someone might develop feelings for a particular date and begin dating that person steadily - and it would be the boy doing the deciding. It was generally assumed that everyone was dating around - no one would be under the mistaken notion that she was going steady. And besides, all the girls talked to each other and all the boys did the same.

I’m not convinced it’s a good idea to have a series of serious relationships, almost like trial marriages. That sets you up for heartbreak with each failed relationship.

Perhaps friendship is a better basis for determining compatibility. It’s more open and emotionally honest than a romantic relationship.

What do you think?

Betsy
 
I have never been able to date more than one woman at a time. If feels, well, a bit slimy. Then there is whole bit about telling those you have not selected “adios!” How about the women who may have been developing feelings.

It seems a bit self-centered. The potential for infliction pain is high.

It may not be efficient, but I prefer my one-at-a-time approach.

Besides it avoids awkwards questions like, “Who is Barb? And Candy? And Margaret? And Karen? And…?”
 
Hello rpp!

I agree with everything you said, especially this:
rpp said:
I have never been able to date more than one woman at a time. If feels, well, a bit slimy…It seems a bit self-centered. The potential for infliction pain is high.
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🙂
 
Hello Betsy! 🙂

Regarding what you said here:
baltobetsy said:
I’m not convinced it’s a good idea to have a series of serious relationships, almost like trial marriages.
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I have a different opinion.

I don’t think serious relationships are like trial marriages, unless sex is involved. Relationships can be chaste but at the same time serious and exclusive…and I am not speaking theoretically, because I’ve been there.

Though, I must admit, especially in this day and age, the pressure to be unchaste is great. One must have the fortitude to be different.
That sets you up for heartbreak with each failed relationship.
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While its true that any romantic relationship is a “leap in the dark”, and can end up in heartbreak, it can also go the other way. How will we know, unless we take a chance?
Perhaps friendship is a better basis for determining compatibility. It’s more open and emotionally honest than a romantic relationship.
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What do you think?
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I think friendship is a good jumping point for any relationship as you can get to know the negatives and positives of a person (including the quirks) without “rose-colored glasses”.

However, I think friendship is more superficial as compared to the depth of understanding you can get in an exclusive relationship. For example, bestfriends who end up being more than friends, still have to make the jump from friendship to a more deeper, exclusive relationship.

While casual dating is the norm for teenagers and those in their early 20’s, I think those who are already working tend to look for a deeper, more permanent relationship and will go out on dates with this goal in mind.

With that, I think one shouldn’t unneccesarily prolong dating another person if they already know it will not work out. The least they can do is to admit that it isn’t serious and that they are seeing other people. I don’t agree, moreso, if dating (plural) is done for amusement. At least, thats my opinion.

🙂

Maria Eugenia
 
Ma. Eugenia, thank you for your thoughtful response.

There are many who think that marriage is the only goal of dating, and no one should date until they are ready to prepare seriously for marriage. I disagree with this. How would one learn to relate to members of the opposite sex without some social interaction throughout the teens and early 20’s?

The fact that rpp feels “slimy” dating more than one person at a time is an indication of the change in societal norms from casual dating to serial monogamy.

I do feel that exclusive, serious relationships are inappropriate for most teens, and perhaps this problem would be solved by all the parents agreeing to forbid anything other than group dates until the teens reach a certain age. This is probably really impractical!

I also feel strongly that young adults need to be on their own, in every sense of the word, before they settle down to a serious relationship. Freedom is important to the development of the young working person.

So maybe what I’m saying is that I prefer to see exclusive, serious dating reserved for the time when a person is getting ready to settle down and get married, and that should ordinarily be well into the 20’s.

Betsy
 
Hello again Betsy! 🙂

Regarding what you said here:
baltobetsy said:
…I prefer to see exclusive, serious dating reserved for the time when a person is getting ready to settle down and get married, and that should ordinarily be well into the 20’s.
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I totally agree with this. I suppose dating can be categorized into 2:
**1. DATING FOR TEENS : **
In which the goal is socialization.
I agree that this is not a time for serious
relationships. I’ve noticed, however, that teens
nowadays tend to delve into relationships that are
too serious for their age. The trivializing of sex is
fostered by peer-pressure (the need to fit in) and the
media. The consequences are mind-boggling:
Teenage pregnancy, abortion, etc…

***and ***

2. DATING FOR THOSE IN THEIR MID-20’s and ABOVE:
In which, the goals tend to be geared towards
stability in relationships, usually, corresponding with
the ability to provide for one’s own family. (Example:
the working class)

I think the God’s purpose for those in the second category is already marriage. So, serial polyamory in my opinion,for those belonging to this age group is already wrong especially if dating is thought of as nothing but a game or leisure activity.

Maybe, if **both **parties are fully aware and are agreeble to a prolonged, open (non-exclusive) relationship with no end in sight, then perhaps, its already a personnal choice on the individual.

Still, I don’t see how this kind of relationship can be God’s will for anyone.

🙂

Maria Eugenia
 
But is there an age at which we can say that a person is now definitively preparing for marriage? That varies according to the development of each individual. So at age 25, one person may still be involved in a series of non-exclusive relationships purely for fun, while another, at another developmental stage, is ready to begin having exclusive relationships.

There are some people who have not matured enough to sustain an exclusive relationship by the time they’re 35! And some who never do. So where you have indicated an appropriate age (mid 20’s and above), perhaps it would be better to divide things by stage of development.

I think you and I are approaching this from different directions. You see people consciously preparing for marriage and searching out a marriage partner. I see people living their lives and being overtaken by love when God sends the right person.

The beautiful thing about our faith is that it is less an either/or and more of a both/and. There’s room for both approaches, don’t you think?

Betsy
 
Hi Betsy! 🙂

I stand corrected. 🙂 You are right that age is not the basis for readiness for marriage—mental, emotional, physical, psychological, financial capabilities etc… are better gauges.

I believe casual dating is fine as long as all parties involved knows it is just that–for fun, for companionship with no pretense of exclusivity on anybody’s part.

However, if one is left in the dark as to the intentions of the other or perhaps, one is lead to believe that the relationship is more than what it really is…then, I think there is a moral problem already. Example: if the guy lead all the women he is dating to believe that each of them have his undivided attention.
The beautiful thing about our faith is that it is less an either/or and more of a both/and. There’s room for both approaches, don’t you think?
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Though, we differ in perspective, Betsy, for me, its nice to know what others think, because it does influence my opinion on issues.

Its wonderful being a Catholic. 😃

Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

🙂

Maria Eugenia
 
I think baltobetsy is spot-on!

I’m a Gen Xer and never dreamed of such a concept when growing up. Such a thing was, by definition, CHEATING in the culture I grew up in.

I think the reason is the early sexualization of dating. Sex is so pervasive in our culture, that even if a typical couple on a third date these days doesn’t do anything wrong, the POTENTIAL is in the room like a 300# gorilla. That changes the entire dynamic.

I think things SHOULD go back to the way baltobetsy describes, but it will only work if the ‘dates’ are almost entirely platonic in behavior, if not thought. Flirtatiousness is fine, but kissing and such implies a committment. If you aren’t ready for the commitment, keep your lips and hands OFF.

Now lets get to work making this the norm before my 6 year old daughter hits puberty! Get to work y’all!
 
Ma.Eugenia said:
However, if one is left in the dark as to the intentions of the other or perhaps, one is lead to believe that the relationship is more than what it really is…then, I think there is a moral problem already. Example: if the guy lead all the women he is dating to believe that each of them have his undivided attention.
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There’s where we absolutely agree. That’s just plain wrong!

Betsy
 
manualman said:
I’m a Gen Xer and never dreamed of such a concept when growing up. Such a thing was, by definition, CHEATING in the culture I grew up in.

I think the reason is the early sexualization of dating. Sex is so pervasive in our culture, that even if a typical couple on a third date these days doesn’t do anything wrong, the POTENTIAL is in the room like a 300# gorilla. That changes the entire dynamic.
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Beautifully put, manualman! And this brings us right back to what the Church teaches us about sex: that sexual intercourse in and of itself unites the man and woman in a marriagelike way, whether or not they are married. So if a couple is having sex, it must be considered cheating to see anyone else, even in the absence of a formal commitment. And breakups are like ripping away part of oneself.

Betsy
 
To cast a little glimmer of hope… I have a 20 yo ds that goes out with friends, maybe Karen likes bowling, so when he goes bowling he asks her, while Barb likes geeky techno things and will go to tech shows with him… and so on… until he decides that one of them is well suited for him, then he dates the young lady. He has a great group of friends that all believe in chastity, so they tend to all hang out together for group things like parties. I think it is more like a support system for him, he tends to gravitate back to them if a girl wants to have a more physical relationship… I noticed as soon as this seems to be happening, he doesn’t go anywhere alone with the girl… if she doesn’t like it, she breaks up with him, but he still has his supportive friends around. I applaude his generation. They seem much better at this than I was at his age.
 
manualman said:
Flirtatiousness is fine, but kissing and such implies a committment. If you aren’t ready for the commitment, keep your lips and hands OFF
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.

I think flirting is alright—as long as it is not sexualized in any way.

I think you’re right about keeping hands and lips off—because one thing can lead to another—before you know it, the not so serious flirting can lead to serious consequences.
Now lets get to work making this the norm before my 6 year old daughter hits puberty! Get to work y’all!
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May I suggest that when your daughter reaches her teens–do not let her get her hands on any of those magazines for teenagers.

I recently read a magazine for teens and was surprised at how it talks about sex so openly. Example of a topic in the magazine: How lesbians/gay people do it. Can you imagine this is in a teen magazine?!!! 😦

I think its sad that chastity and virginity has little value for most of the young people nowadays. Today the norm is if you are in a serious relationship (girlfriend-boyfriend, sometimes not even that) you can have intimate relationships already. People tend not to wait for the wedding ceremony.
 
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