Collection plate

[joeybaggz]

joeybaggz:

Because cash is a tangible statement of the value society puts on your talents and effort. Those pieces of paper in your wallet are a statement about your character and value. Having to part with cash creates in the mind of the owner, a tangible sense of the value of what his/her cash is being exchanged for. Clicks on a keyboard accessing and disbursing nothing more than a number cannot create the moral understanding of the true nature of money.

True, but the Church does better when people use e-giving & it’s easier for the person.

People through the ages brought the products of their weekly labors and efforts to donate at the offertory of the mass. A previous poster alluded to the fact that livestock, produce, fabrics, etc would be brought and gifted at the offertory. In fact, that is why the washing of the hands prior to the Eucharistic sacrifice is done. Priests in the old times got their hands dirty.
I’m sure it makes it easier. Wouldn’t it also make it easier if we used electric light instead of candles? How about recorded music; we could get rid of those paid music directors, how about using simple grape juice from concentrate, would save money on more expensive wine. Oh, I can probably think of a dozen or more “traditions” that are designed to remind us where the Mass came from and what earlier Christians did and went through to bring us the faith.
Directly putting money in the collection at the offertory is a call back to the earlier times in the Church. It recalls our traditions and the meanings of the Mass over time. Sure it’s easier. Heck, you don’t have to think about a thing. Giving to the church now in the way you love has no more meaning than buying the latest piece of clickbait on the internet, or some product the economic Antichrist Bezos is offering on the business that is destroying the traditional economic landscape of America and costing millions of jobs. But hey, let’s not stand in the way of convenience.

 

[phil19034]

phil19034:

joeybaggz:

Because cash is a tangible statement of the value society puts on your talents and effort. Those pieces of paper in your wallet are a statement about your character and value. Having to part with cash creates in the mind of the owner, a tangible sense of the value of what his/her cash is being exchanged for. Clicks on a keyboard accessing and disbursing nothing more than a number cannot create the moral understanding of the true nature of money.

True, but the Church does better when people use e-giving & it’s easier for the person.

People through the ages brought the products of their weekly labors and efforts to donate at the offertory of the mass. A previous poster alluded to the fact that livestock, produce, fabrics, etc would be brought and gifted at the offertory. In fact, that is why the washing of the hands prior to the Eucharistic sacrifice is done. Priests in the old times got their hands dirty.
I’m sure it makes it easier. Wouldn’t it also make it easier if we used electric light instead of candles? How about recorded music; we could get rid of those paid music directors, how about using simple grape juice from concentrate, would save money on more expensive wine. Oh, I can probably think of a dozen or more “traditions” that are designed to remind us where the Mass came from and what earlier Christians did and went through to bring us the faith.
Directly putting money in the collection at the offertory is a call back to the earlier times in the Church. It recalls our traditions and the meanings of the Mass over time. Sure it’s easier. Heck, you don’t have to think about a thing. Giving to the church now in the way you love has no more meaning than buying the latest piece of clickbait on the internet, or some product the economic Antichrist Bezos is offering on the business that is destroying the traditional economic landscape of America and costing millions of jobs. But hey, let’s not stand in the way of convenience.

Ok, I think you are twisting what I’m saying a great deal.

I am NOT advocating the total elimination of the financial offertory during Mass.

I think it should remain due to both tradition & frankly because it’s a good way to get donations from people who are not regular givers.

However, I also don’t see an issue with the eGiving either. Afterall, when someone wants to write Father a $100,000 check, they usually don’t put it in the collection basket.

As I said in a previous post some nations (like Ireland) do not pass a basket, they use a lock box by the door.

When some suggested at my Parish to eliminate the basket passing, I was totally against it. But at the same time, I do want to see more eGiving for regular givers because it helps the Parish.

The other silly things you mentioned either don’t help the Parish, don’t assist us in prayer, or are flat out sacrilege.

God Bless

 

[joeybaggz]

Ok, I think you are twisting what I’m saying a great deal.

The other silly things you mentioned either don’t help the Parish, don’t assist us in prayer, or are flat out sacrilege.
God Bless

Actually, I am not twisting or “condemning” what you are saying. I am only arguing for a tradition that goes back centuries. I am a bit leery of the effect of technology on the meaning and traditions of the Mass.

As to your other statement, I don’t think you are seeing the sarcasm in it. Then again, sarcasm is difficult to perceive in the written word only so your comment is understandable.

Shalom

 

[Pamsan]

My church has at least 2 poor boxes and even though they are locked and there are cameras…people still manange to steal from them. Just like when they manage to destroy some of our saint statues.

A box at the front of the church isnt safe. There are afternoon classes and meetings (like moms group, knights) so it isn’t like that box will only get money during Mass.

The current method of basket collections or electronic payments is the safer method of obtaining neccessary funds during mass. As another poster said, the basket can be moved to a more secure location that isn’t easily visiable to the public.

I don’t always put money in the basket. I do feel sad but generally peoole are too busy to notice everything you do and if they do, then they where probably led to believe in mandatory tithing from their protestant peers. They are in the wrong, not you. You give when you can and correct anyone who opens their mouth.

Also, as a side note. There are times when I do have money to give but I am so distracted by my two young children that I will forget until that basket is “shoved in my face” (as some try to put it) so I am very greatful for the reminder. When I am outside with one or both kids, I typically forget to run in and put the money in the poor box so I end up feeling worthless because I forgot to give the money I planned to give, to God. Auto withdrawls don’t work for us currently. One of the apps mentioned above might be helpful. Hopefully my church will implement that…but then again…one of my children sure do love to put money in the basket.

Please stop thinking negatively, it isn’t good for you. Don’t you walk out of stores empty handed sometimes? Do you feel guilty about that too? Don’t worry about it.

On the thing about distractions…is it that hard to refocus? When I forget to put my phone on silent, I don’t find it hard to continue conversations or reading my book after a quick adjustment to sound…

Anyway, take care

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Hmmm, the fruits of my labour lands in my bank account, not in coins and bills.

If I hand over cash the church faces bank fees for counting it when depositing. Which is wasteful.

A lot of poor people deal in cash and also go to church and make their donations in cash.
Not everybody is in a position to have direct deposit (or even a bank account) or donate electronically.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Because cash is a tangible statement of the value society puts on your talents and effort. Those pieces of paper in your wallet are a statement about your character and value. Having to part with cash creates in the mind of the owner, a tangible sense of the value of what his/her cash is being exchanged for. Clicks on a keyboard accessing and disbursing nothing more than a number cannot create the moral understanding of the true nature of money.

That’s your opinion, Joey. I barely use cash for anything, it’s all plastic and e-bills now. I barely even write paper checks. And I’m not going to withdraw 20, 50 or 100 bucks and put it in an envelope and throw it in a basket just to make it look “tangible”. I’m going to hit the “online giving” button like a normal person. God sees my donation just fine and I don’t have to worry about anybody being light fingered and stealing it out of the collection either - and before anyone criticizes me for saying that, I’ve been to 2 churches in the last 12 months where one of the parish staff was later arrested for stealing thousands out of the collection.

I understand why they pass the basket since like I said to SnowRose a lot of people deal in cash (especially around here, we have a ton of migrant workers and the like) and also it gets some people to give who wouldn’t think of it otherwise. But when I give, I am giving for the purpose of supporting the church, not so I can have a mindset of “tangible sense of value” which I very frankly do not associate with cash. I see cash as a giant pain in the butt more than any sort of tangible anything.

I’m constantly baffled as to why people who have some issue with today’s electronic technology impose their issues and hangups and mindset onto everybody else who is comfortable with it.

 

[Polak]

I understand the practicality of this but it’s easy how somebody could take this statement as no different to some of the televangelist scams. ‘Give back to the church and then God will reward you.’ It sounds a little bit too much like paying for you ticket to heaven. ‘How do you give back to the church? By giving us money.’ Hmmmmm.

I think a basket being passed makes it seem less voluntary and more forced, even if nobody will kick you out of church for not putting anything in. I am liking the sound of what the churches in Ireland do. They have a place where people can make donations and that feels like less pressure on the individual.

With the church I go to, you are encouraged to make a yearly donation [almost like a membership] as well as the weekly [often with 2nd collections] basket donations. So people do often end up throwing quite a bit of money at the church. Of course, there are worse things to spend your money on, but again, the very idea of having to pay to worship God just seems wrong.

Sure, perhaps it’s part of the psychology. It’s the churches reminder that the place you worship in can’t function without donations and the basket being put in front of you every week is a reminder of this. I don’t like it though. It can raise too many questions from others. ‘Oh, why didn’t that person donate? Are they really poor? Are they just greedy?’ I believe the church should have a bit more faith in its parishioners and have a box by the door [or wherever] in the church where people can put in money. I think most people will still make donations. If they go to church every week then they will probably feel a morale obligation themselves to help with its upkeep.

I’m constantly baffled as to why people who have some issue with today’s electronic technology

My only real issue with the gradual elimination of cash is that I don’t trust the reasons behind it. This might sound like I’m going in to conspiracy theory territory, but if everything is paid for electronically, then you can always be tracked when you make payments, travel etc. Where I live, they recently made it impossible to pay cash on buses. You have to use either a transport card or your bank card. As well your journeys always being noted electronically, it is also inconvenient. Sometimes you might be in a situation where you only have cash on you, no card, and then what? I know people who have had this problem and had to beg the bus driver if they could pay cash just this once. The funny thing is, there was a survey conducted before this was implemented, where people got to say if they wanted to get rid of cash payments on buses or keep them. As far as I am aware, the majority wanted to keep the cash option, but they still took it away.

Some shops are also beginning to take away the option of paying cash. One mobile phone shop I was in a while ago said it’s card only. It makes me suspicious. What is the issue with cash? Why can’t people have a choice?

 

[Tis_Bearself]

This might sound like I’m going in to conspiracy theory territory, but if everything is paid for electronically, then you can always be tracked when you make payments, travel etc.

I personally couldn’t care less about whether I’m tracked or not. The tracking of electronic activity has actually been really helpful when the police are trying to find a missing person or find someone who has committed a crime. I’ve done nothing wrong, so if the government is really interested in the fact that I went to Ace Hardware and then Walmart today, they can have a party with that information for all I care.

With all due respect, you have a lot of opinions that are particular to yourself. Not everybody shares them or cares or feels the same way you do about tracking, the collection plate, etc. It’s not a problem discussing these opinions, but the degree to which you are worried about tracking or collection plate is unusual and frankly weird to me, and may be unusual and weird to other people as well.

 

[YourNameHere]

As long as the financial needs of the Church are taken care of, does it really matter how $$$ is collected?
Let everyone give as much as they can and, may it be collected in which ever way is reasonable and convenient.
That is the bottom line on the bottom line.
God bless everywhere who participated in this discussion!

 

[SnowRose]

One of the upsides of a cashless society has been with less cash around in small shops, at home and carried on persons the number of robberies and break-ins is dropping.
Of course, to an extent they’re replaced by other types of crime, it’s not perfect.

It does affect beggars and buskers, though - most people just don’t carry much cash if any.

 

[Polak]

With all due respect, you have a lot of opinions that are particular to yourself. Not everybody shares them or cares or feels the same way you do about tracking, the collection plate, etc. It’s not a problem discussing these opinions, but the degree to which you are worried about tracking or collection plate is unusual and frankly weird to me, and may be unusual and weird to other people as well.

With all due respect, but surely the fact that I have opinions you disagree with and that as many people might agree with me as disagree with me, shows that people have different views on this and should be given a choice in this matter?

People like you can use cards all day long if you like and never use cash again, but some people like to use cash and they should be allowed to continue to do so, whatever their reason for it might be and however ‘weird’ you might think it is.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

People like you can use cards all day long if you like and never use cash again, but some people like to use cash and they should be allowed to continue to do so, whatever their reason for it might be and however ‘weird’ you might think it is.

Who’s stopping them?
Did I tell anybody they couldn’t use cash? No. I even acknowledged that a lot of poor people don’t have electronic options.

Did somebody try to say earlier on this thread that I shouldn’t use electronic donations? Yes.

How did you go from my statement to claiming that I said people shouldn’t use cash?

Kindly don’t put words in my mouth.

 

[Polak]

People like you can use cards all day long if you like and never use cash again, but some people like to use cash and they should be allowed to continue to do so, whatever their reason for it might be and however ‘weird’ you might think it is.

Who’s stopping them?

Did I tell anybody they couldn’t use cash? No. I even acknowledged that a lot of poor people don’t have electronic options.

Did somebody try to say earlier on this thread that I shouldn’t use electronic donations? Yes.

How did you go from my statement to claiming that I said people shouldn’t use cash

I can see from a couple of posts you have made on this forum in response to me, that you get agitated easily.

I never said you said people can’t use cash, but I mentioned before that we seem to slowly be heading towards a cashless society and you responded to my post by suggesting that my concerns about this are unusual or weird, hence I believe you wouldn’t have an issue with a cashless society? Or would you oppose it if such a suggestion was made?

Well I didn’t tell you that you can’t use electronic donations in church, so if somebody else said it, there’s no need to take that out on me.

PS - I’m not putting words in your mouth.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I can see from a couple of posts you have made on this forum in response to me, that you get agitated easily.

Me? Agitated? I’m not agitated because I disagreed with you.

You’re the one writing huge walls of text about your opinions and positions. This issue was even important enough to you to start a thread.

I think it’s all a giant non-issue.

Bye, have a nice day.

 

[Polak]

Me? Agitated? I’m not agitated because I disagreed with you.

No, you are obviously agitated. People can disagree with other people politely, while you seem to be very annoyed that I have a different opinion to you. Trust me, it’s obvious from the way you write your posts. Read them again.

You’re the one writing huge walls of text about your opinions and positions. This issue was even important enough to you to start a thread.

Wrong. My initial thread was about the necessity of the collection plate in church. It had nothing to do with cash or electronic payments. The discussion later moved in that direction, so I also gave my thoughts on that as well.

Bye, have a nice day.

Yeah you too

 

[LittleFlower]

I do the same thing.

I just usually shake my head, indicating to pass it on. I don’t like carrying cash with me, and in Melbourne we have had robberies now in churches after collections. Reinforces my current behaviour of giving either via direct debit or online.

 

[exnihilo]

You know your at the wrong church when the collection basket has a mouse trap inside of it

Actually, in the mind of G. K. Chesterton you’d be at the right church. He in fact got his umbrella stolen once. He remarked on it (as I recall) that he was able to safely leave his umbrella at the back of any Anglican Church with no worries. But he realized if the Catholic Church attracted these kinds of sinners, and not just saints, then it was the right Church for him.

 

[tafan2]

I think a basket being passed makes it seem less voluntary and more forced, even if nobody will kick you out of church for not putting anything in. I am liking the sound of what the churches in Ireland do. They have a place where people can make donations and that feels like less pressure on the individual.

I really don’t understand you thinking. While the collection basket is not there to force us to donate at any given time, your idea that giving to the Church is a voluntary think is wrong. We are obligated to give what we can to the Church. This is one of the precepts of the Church, it is gravely sinful to not support the material needs of the Church.

And it is certainly less “forced” now in the Catholic church than it has been in many places and times in the past. I grew up in a small German Catholic farming community. A few years ago I was spending some time in their local museum and they had Church bulletins from the 1920s, 30s, and 40s. At that time, the farmers were charged an annual tax based on the amount of land they owned. Once a year in the bulletin, they printed a list of families, how much of their pew tax was paid, and how much extra they donated. This was not a surprise to me, because my grandfather had told me about it. He claimed that there was hardly anything more shameful than not paying your tax.
A bishop would still have the right to do something similar today:

Can. 1260 The Church has an innate right to require from the Christian faithful those things which are necessary for the purposes proper to it.

I never understand how people say they think there is something unseemly about the church asking for money.

 

[YourNameHere]

Time, talent, and treasure. The big three T’s.

 

[Sunbreak]

There’s no need to feel embarrassed if you let the collection basket go right by you. Some people give online. Some people like to write 1 check for the month so they are not giving anything the other weeks. As for 2nd collections, most of those are for various collections the Archdiocese has decided on so it’s not the local church that is getting the extra money.