Collection/tithe envelopes--needed to make Sacraments?

[KathleenElsie]

Just a reminder. If you don’t put your money in the envelope then please write $0 on the front. Those that have to count the money would save time this way.

I know of one person that turns in the empty envelope and places cash in the basket. But, then again they can’t deduct the amount off of the taxes they pay.

 

[whatevergirl]

That fact is many perople would be embarrased by the amount they contribut. They actually do not want the church to know how little they contribute to the care and upkeep of *their *parish.

I have noted in earlier posts [on related threads] my parish [which is an up scale parish that is generally considered ‘generous’ and gives more than the archdiocesan average] gives relatively little according to its means each Sunday…

Catholics rank last in support of their church and its mission, giving less than other Christian denominations to the support of their church and charitable causes…I can only guess that catholics prefer Bingo and Bake Sales to Sunday Collections…as the Bingo and Bake Sales do not really cover costs…we will continue to see school and church closings.

I attend a relatively affluent parish, but it could be that people are also giving to other charities…I know that I also tithe to charities, and this is also part of tithing. But, my ‘first’ tithe goes to the Church…I just thought it interesting that the parish is requesting that people use the envelopes…

But you make such interesting points. I guess we simply cannot judge.

 

[YADA]

I am not judging what a person places in an envelope. My grandson attends our parish school because my dughter’s family receives a scholarship. Without that scholarship there is no way my daughter and son-in-law coud pay the tuition. Our parish exxpects school families to contribute $10 per week to the parish, attend Mass each Sunday, and volunteer a certain amount of hours for fundraising and in the classroom.

The parents are expected to meet these goals, it is called being responsible. Some families will pay a designated amount to ‘escape’ the fund raising hours, but parish support and classroom hours are not escapable. Mass attendance is expected but not monitored…

One would ask why send your child to a catholic school if you are not an active practicing catholic but…

Now the average per family contribution [last I saw] for the archdiocese was about $6 per family per week. My parish was at $8 per family per week.

$6.00 per week equals 2% of a $7.50 per hour job

$8.00 per week equals 2.5% of a $7.50 per hour job

$10.00 per week equals 3.33% of a $7.50 per hour job

My parish is full of Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, Engineers, Police and Fire, Realestate Agents, Mortgage Brokers…not many McDonalds employees [except the children]. Houses cost $200,000 to the multi-millions with the average around $400,000. We do have some retirees but while thier retirements may not have exactly kept up they were on the high end of the pay scale when they retired [for the most part].

Perhaps catholics fail to reflect properly upon the awsome gifts we have. I heard a catholic once say his dad always put a couple of bucks in the plate…I put in five…but $2 in the 1960’s does not equate to $5 today.

There are people who spend $3.90 for a cup of Starbucks EVERYDAY…

 

[whatevergirl]

I am not judging what a person places in an envelope. My grandson attends our parish school because my dughter’s family receives a scholarship. Without that scholarship there is no way my daughter and son-in-law coud pay the tuition. Our parish exxpects school families to contribute $10 per week to the parish, attend Mass each Sunday, and volunteer a certain amount of hours for fundraising and in the classroom.

The parents are expected to meet these goals, it is called being responsible. Some families will pay a designated amount to ‘escape’ the fund raising hours, but parish support and classroom hours are not escapable. Mass attendance is expected but not monitored…

One would ask why send your child to a catholic school if you are not an active practicing catholic but…

Now the average per family contribution [last I saw] for the archdiocese was about $6 per family per week. My parish was at $8 per family per week.

$6.00 per week equals 2% of a $7.50 per hour job

$8.00 per week equals 2.5% of a $7.50 per hour job

$10.00 per week equals 3.33% of a $7.50 per hour job

My parish is full of Doctors, Lawyers, Teachers, Engineers, Police and Fire, Realestate Agents, Mortgage Brokers…not many McDonalds employees [except the children]. Houses cost $200,000 to the multi-millions with the average around $400,000. We do have some retirees but while thier retirements may not have exactly kept up they were on the high end of the pay scale when they retired [for the most part].

Perhaps catholics fail to reflect properly upon the awsome gifts we have. I heard a catholic once say his dad always put a couple of bucks in the plate…I put in five…but $2 in the 1960’s does not equate to $5 today.

There are people who spend $3.90 for a cup of Starbucks EVERYDAY…

I should have clarified…I wasn’t saying you were judging…sorry about that. I was just saying in general, because I have belonged to affluent churches…and I have seen very ‘wealthy’ people putting in $1…and I have to fight that judgement myself.

 

[YADA]

Yes, I know that…If someone watched my husband and I they would see us place*** no*** envelope in the plate [except at another parish near my mothers…we go there enough that we have envelopes and I guess they see us as regular members…they even called my mothers house for me to clean the parish one month - we bought my mothers home and have a local checking account for bills and such witht hat number and address on them…that is how they made us parishioners with envelopes as we never registered].

We make my contribution through our banks online bill pay service. I make the amount once a month based upon the number of Sundays and Holy Days that month. I also use our envelope number as our account number. Even though we do not use envelopes weekly, we attend mass each week [no matter where we are in the world!]. We also contribute something to the parish we might be visiting. [As I said, that is how we became envelope carrying members of this other parish]

 

[whatevergirl]

Yes, I know that…If someone watched my husband and I they would see us place*** no*** envelope in the plate [except at another parish near my mothers…we go there enough that we have envelopes and I guess they see us as regular members…they even called my mothers house for me to clean the parish one month - we bought my mothers home and have a local checking account for bills and such witht hat number and address on them…that is how they made us parishioners with envelopes as we never registered].

We make my contribution through our banks online bill pay service. I make the amount once a month based upon the number of Sundays and Holy Days that month. I also use our envelope number as our account number. Even though we do not use envelopes weekly, we attend mass each week [no matter where we are in the world!]. We also contribute something to the parish we might be visiting. [As I said, that is how we became envelope carrying members of this other parish]

hi yada…that’s interesting…i have never heard of this method of tithing…cool! I went to Confession over peering over at that one wealthy couple a while back…(we’re talking they are W-E-A-L-T-H-Y) LOL …and since, have stopped peering over at my neighbors…it’s not for me to judge. It shows me though how human I am. lol

Thanks for sharing…my husband would probably like to do YOUR method.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

Of the 7 Sacraments, instruction is required for 3 (Reconciliation, 1st Holy Communion and Confirmation), so the parish would know if you are attending class. Of the other 4, I doubt any priest would be too worried about checking to make sure you are a parishioner for Anointing of the Sick and Holy Orders. So that leaves Weddings and Baptisms. I sympathize with pastors for wanting to have some way to make sure you are a practicing catholic for those two, because there is so much room for error these days. When I was a kid, the parish I lived in sent a book with all of the family’s names and how much they gave a few times a year. That was awful.
Fortunately (or maybe unfortunately) for me, the priests in my parish know my family and me quite well, and I have to say they really go out of their way to get to know the people at Mass on Sunday. Goodness knows, I see the people enough to know who is going to Mass regularly.

 

[YADA]

Instruction is required for baptism and marriage too. Parents seeking baptism for their infants are required to receive instruction [and also the God parents] in our parish. Marriage preparation, marriage encounter weekend and natural family planning are required of couples seeking to be married.

Holy orders requires its own religious formation/instruction - years of it…not at the parish level tough LOL

 

[Lovemyfaith]

Sorry, I was trying to find a way for people to not equate envelopes with Sacraments. When you are ready for your 1st Reconciliation, Communion or Confirmation it is understood you have been participating in classes for years.
The wedding date will usually be set before you attend the classes, same with Baptism and I remember one or two classes were all that was needed for our family for those Sacraments.
As far as Holy Orders, I think any priest would sit down with a total stranger who had questions about becoming a priest, and give him direction. There again, years of formation is needed for that Sacrament.
I agree 100% with people who feel like they are “paying for Sacraments” and are uncomfortable with that. On the other hand, I see where the Church is put in an awkward position of giving the gifts of the Sacraments to people.
My suggestion is, get to know the priests in your parish, a simple handshake on your way out of Mass, attend parish events, send them Christmas cards, volunteer. They will know who you are the day you come in to schedule your child’s wedding.

 

[true_believer]

I would say that it is wrong if the parish is trying to make people contribute money by writing announcements which sound as if the sacraments will be denied to a person if they don’t contribute to the parish financially.

My solution would be, as others have said, to place a blank envelope in the basket each week so that the church can see that you are a parishoner

 

[SyCarl]

It is actually already being done with envelopes! They are pre-printed for you and everything. As an aside, when I have attended a non-Catholic church (my husband is Lutheran and when we were first married and moved he was “looking for a church home”) the cards were for guests to fill out so they could evangelize you. We had this happen at least once, had a group of Baptist men come to my apartment door, bibles in hand and when I told them I was Catholic and had a church to go to they more or less told me I was going to Hell and that I needed to listen to them. I am not saying this is what was happening at your former church but I will bet it was and you just didn’t know it because you were a member so they didn’t need to evangelize you

Brenda V.

In Prebyterian Churches it is necessary to have an accurate roll of active members and adherents. Due to our form of church government, Presbytery requires the signatures of a certain percentage of the congregation to do certain activities. For example, to call a minister requires 80% of those on the church role to sign. If the church roll is full of non-active members, this percentage can be very hard to reach. I don’t know how it is for other denominations.

 

[YADA]

Have you not ever asked [or expected] a spouse or room mate to assist with household expenses and chores? A child? In your homes do you not expect all members to participate in maintaining the home?

Whose parish is it? Just the priest’s? I thought the parish was us! That the facilities were our responsibility.

Do we just want the parish to be available to us only when we “want”? like it is time to get a child baptized, or some other life event? What about each Sunday…too often? Perhaps the occassional Christmas or Easter?

How does a person identify themselves as an “active, practicing, filled with the love of Christ” catholic christian? By an empty envelope? By dropping by once in a while for mass?

Who is supposed to pay the utility bills, the payroll? Who pays for the Eucharistic elements [bread and wine]?

If you do not support your parish with your presence at mass in addition to financially, and with volunteering your time and using your gifts and talents, then just whose responisbility is it to provide that support?

 

[Brenda_V]

In Prebyterian Churches it is necessary to have an accurate roll of active members and adherents. Due to our form of church government, Presbytery requires the signatures of a certain percentage of the congregation to do certain activities. For example, to call a minister requires 80% of those on the church role to sign. If the church roll is full of non-active members, this percentage can be very hard to reach. I don’t know how it is for other denominations.

That is interesting to know. Then I as a visitor would not and should not be asked to sign anything then. I will admit that my experiences outside of the Catholic Faith are, Lutheran, Anglican and Baptist. I have only ever attended as a guest these other churches and the Baptist one is the only one that ever asked us to fill anything out which turned into what I said in a previous post - not a pleasant experience for a young, newly married, newly pregnant Catholic in the big city of Phoenix and the first time far away from family.

Brenda V.

 

[the_phoenix]

While I attend Mass every Sunday, and fully believe in my responsibility to financially support the Catholic Church, I do not always use my parish envelope.

1. I travel quite a bit, so there are many weekends out of the year when I attend Mass out of town. In which case, my Sunday offering goes to the parish where I am visiting.
2. I sometimes attend Mass downtown where an indult Latin Mass is offered. In which case, my Sunday offering goes to this parish downtown.
3. Even when I do attend my own English-speaking parish for several weeks in a row, there are times when I prefer to write one check to cover two weeks worth of Sunday offerings, thus I use one envelope in cases where others might use two.

It logically follows that the parish computer which keeps track of Mass attendance based on envelope use may well consider me as someone who only attends Mass about half the time, when in fact I attend Mass each and every Sunday.

I can only hope and pray to St. Joseph that I will have the grace of a happy death complete with receiving the Sacraments.

~~ the phoenix

 

[YADA]

I only send a check once a month but my parish knows I attend every sunday regularly as I volunteer and am involved. I actually do not believe they use the contributions to track attendance per se.

Laudable to support other parishes when visiting. My husband I and do as well. We also contribute the amount to our …
parish, just as if we’d been there. In fact we feel connceted to our home parish [and the worldwide commmunity of believers at every mass].

Just curious…

When you travel and pay your hotel lodging bill does that mean you do’nt need to make your mortgage payment on your home for the time you are away?

How about your insurance and utility costs; are they not paid at home while you are away?

What is differnt about your home parish…?

 

[Lovemyfaith]

It is important to support your parish with your time, talent, and treasure. I also think it is important to support your parish school if there is one. There are other ways besides envelopes however, to make sure families are in good standing with the church, like block collection. I know parishes that still have priests visiting families every few years. There could certainly be a parish census done every few years, even without visitations. The idea of a letter mentioning using the envelopes together with the Sacraments still does not sit well with me.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Just a reminder. If you don’t put your money in the envelope then please write $0 on the front. Those that have to count the money would save time this way.

I know of one person that turns in the empty envelope and places cash in the basket. But, then again they can’t deduct the amount off of the taxes they pay.

People who do the counting, count the contents of the envelope, not what’s written on the outside. Too often people write a different amount on the envelope than what they put inside. How
do you tell the bank you’re depositing $1500 into the checking account when you really only have $1200, because you counted what was written on the outside of the envelope instead of the actual money?

Jim

 

[KathleenElsie]

People who do the counting, count the contents of the envelope, not what’s written on the outside. Too often people write a different amount on the envelope than what they put inside. How
do you tell the bank you’re depositing $1500 into the checking account when you really only have $1200, because you counted what was written on the outside of the envelope instead of the actual money?

Jim

The amount written on the from is used as a way to double check the amount in the envelope. In our case mostly cash. Checks are another thing altogether. But the cash is verified for everyones sake.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

The amount written on the from is used as a way to double check the amount in the envelope. In our case mostly cash. Checks are another thing altogether. But the cash is verified for everyones sake.

Actually it is very important to match the amount on the envelope to the contents as someone in the parish office will most likely use the envelopes with the family names on them to enter the amount contributed by the family. The parish would then be able to give a count of contributions for tax purposes. Counters will change the amount if it doesn’t match.

 

[PaulaB52]

I was Parish Secretary for a while. People were required to register with the Parish to receive Sacraments, but they were not required to use the envelopes.

What was really sad were the people who registered their family just in time for 1st Communion or a Baptism and then we never saw or heard from them again. CCD Registration was also another large registration in the parish.

Father was adament when saying contributing to your parish does not need to be all financial. There are so many things you could volunteer for in the parish.

FWIW, we use the envelopes and we are registered members of our parish. We travel quite a bit, so we give a smaller amount to the visiting parish and our usual amount to our regular parish.