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Vico
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He interpreted theological concepts with an analytical process of symbols - relating objective and subjective.
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OneSheep
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I think that it is accurate to say that God communicates to us through many, many sources, including life experiences and circumstances.How are Christians supposed to interpret Carl Jung’s theory that there is a collective unconscious that all of mankind shares in which there are various archetypes some of which may be reflected in our religions including in Christianity. Is there a collective unconscious? Does God communicate to us through it?
Jung had listed archetypes, but he did not say they were “set” for everyone. I think he even said that the number cannot be determined, and most psychologists who pay attention to this way of looking at the psyche agree.
I think one aspect of this that involves spiritual growth revolves around the question, “Do I accept this archetype, this part of myself?” Jesus calls us to forgive, to reconcile, and that involves “removing the post from our own eye”, it means taking a look within and reconciling with the parts of ourselves for which we feel contempt. For example, we may feel contempt for the “Hero”, our own drive for righteousness (not that these always are to be equated) or for the “king”, our desire to dominate situations, to win (again, not that these are necessarily the same).
That’s pretty cool that you made that connection to the topic, and I think you have something there. For example, Jesus’ sermon on sheep and goats has been examined in terms of “parts of ourselves” because all of us have, for example, both been sheep, and been goats, in our behaviors. So we can use the sermon to look at the parts of ourselves, for example, that are holding us back from serving others.Right, and St. Paul explains it as made up of parts (1 Corinthians 12, Romans 12). If one part is suffering, every part suffers with it.
Here is an article about archetypes. Generally speaking, I think that people who are more into the arts and literature are more likely to find meaning in study and identification of archetypes. If a person is more like me, more science-minded, we prefer to look at the “parts of ourselves” in a more mechanical way, such as desire for control, desire for wealth, etc. I think both of these approaches are to be respected, and both approaches, when brought into self-reflective prayer, can lead to a greater wholeness, a holiness that is manifested in our freedom to love and accept ourselves and all others without hesitation or pause.
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GLam1761
Guest
You are RIGHT in one thing there is strength in numbers,
but the collective you are suggesting the Church is can
only be applied to an AA group, a Cult or a group of dissidents
and cannot rightly be applied to an assembly of worshippers
who are one in the Holy Spirit.
but the collective you are suggesting the Church is can
only be applied to an AA group, a Cult or a group of dissidents
and cannot rightly be applied to an assembly of worshippers
who are one in the Holy Spirit.
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JimG
Guest
My unconscious does not belong to a Collective. It’s not possible.
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Shakuhachi
Guest
It is called “Unconscious” because you are unconscious of it. Like your DNA.
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Erikaspirit16
Guest
Interesting. I don’t see any conflict between the idea of collective unconscious and religion, but maybe I’m naive.
In any case, whether you call it collective unconscious or instinct (is there a difference?) almost all people are afraid of either spiders or snakes, or both. Certain symbols are common to multiple unrelated civilizations (of course you could argue coincidence–there are only so many geometric arrangements).
Jerome Brunner wrote about childhood development, and there have been TV documentaries on the subject. One thing was “Cartesian reach”–if you put a cup of milk in front of a baby, he will initially reach his hand directly to it. Then he learns to reach for it by knowing its coordinates–not a direct reach, but a circling motion that ends up at the glass. And if a crawling baby approaches a stairway or something else that falls off dangerously, he will stop–even though he’s never seen such a thing before. Why? How does he know?
Most convincing of all is that I’ve read there was an experiment(s ?) where people were asked to draw an idealized scene. Almost invariably they drew a similar scene–a plain with a few trees, a lake, and a mountain range in the background. The African Savannah. I couldn’t find a link, but I’m sure it’s out there. I don’t think this is far-fetched.
There is also a personal story that I ran across some years ago doing genealogy. There is a present day family with three children. Each child has two given names. I discovered an ancestral family from 18th c. Scotland none of the current family had any knowledge of before. Eerily, the names of the children in that family were almost identical to the modern-day family: 5 of the 6 names were the same as in the 18th c. family. Now yes, it could be coincidence, and yes, the present day family used traditional names, but still…I have to think there was some unconscious “memory” of those names. There was something that made those particular names attractive.
And of course if you turn to animals, it’s just astounding. For example, the game “Concentration” where you have a grid with covered symbols or pictures, and one or two squares are uncovered at a time and you have to match them with their identical twin; or, in another version, they are revealed in order and you have to point to them in the same exact order. For a normal human, this is tough. But watch a chimpanzee do it – 3 minute clip –
and there are many more similar videos out there. And then there are Monarch butterflies who fly to the same little glen in Mexico every fall. Except that the butterfly who leaves, say, New York, in August is not the one who arrives in Mexico. It take them 4-5 generations to arrive. So it’s the great great grandson of the one who left NY who arrives in Mexico. How do they know where they’re going? How do they navigate there? And of course how to they get back? “Collective unconscious” ?
And of course there are a lot of other examples, both for humans and animals. The point is that they seem to know things automatically, without being taught, and the question is how?
In any case, whether you call it collective unconscious or instinct (is there a difference?) almost all people are afraid of either spiders or snakes, or both. Certain symbols are common to multiple unrelated civilizations (of course you could argue coincidence–there are only so many geometric arrangements).
Jerome Brunner wrote about childhood development, and there have been TV documentaries on the subject. One thing was “Cartesian reach”–if you put a cup of milk in front of a baby, he will initially reach his hand directly to it. Then he learns to reach for it by knowing its coordinates–not a direct reach, but a circling motion that ends up at the glass. And if a crawling baby approaches a stairway or something else that falls off dangerously, he will stop–even though he’s never seen such a thing before. Why? How does he know?
Most convincing of all is that I’ve read there was an experiment(s ?) where people were asked to draw an idealized scene. Almost invariably they drew a similar scene–a plain with a few trees, a lake, and a mountain range in the background. The African Savannah. I couldn’t find a link, but I’m sure it’s out there. I don’t think this is far-fetched.
There is also a personal story that I ran across some years ago doing genealogy. There is a present day family with three children. Each child has two given names. I discovered an ancestral family from 18th c. Scotland none of the current family had any knowledge of before. Eerily, the names of the children in that family were almost identical to the modern-day family: 5 of the 6 names were the same as in the 18th c. family. Now yes, it could be coincidence, and yes, the present day family used traditional names, but still…I have to think there was some unconscious “memory” of those names. There was something that made those particular names attractive.
And of course if you turn to animals, it’s just astounding. For example, the game “Concentration” where you have a grid with covered symbols or pictures, and one or two squares are uncovered at a time and you have to match them with their identical twin; or, in another version, they are revealed in order and you have to point to them in the same exact order. For a normal human, this is tough. But watch a chimpanzee do it – 3 minute clip –
And of course there are a lot of other examples, both for humans and animals. The point is that they seem to know things automatically, without being taught, and the question is how?
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Shakuhachi
Guest
I think of this collective unconscious more as hardware substrate.
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Anrakyr
Guest
In fairness we are of the option it hasn’t happened yet. Mostly because many of us had personal contact with god’s that would be dead in Ragnarok.
Also many of us haven’t heard from Baldur meaning he hasn’t resurrected yet which happens after.
Something else that I’ve found in abundance is video games that have been in development for years before 2020 are releasing and they’ll have a theme of death. Being a grim reaper or assisting people to the other side.
I say this because we had 2020 and there’s covid-19 going on but these games would have been in development years before it even was on the horizon all release at the same time?
Also many of us haven’t heard from Baldur meaning he hasn’t resurrected yet which happens after.
What I’ve noticed is people seem to be affected by ideas in waves. for example I noticed whenever I have a bad night sleep most people around me have a bad night sleep. Reasons don’t necessarily have to be tangible per se but it’s little things like that.I think of this collective unconscious more as hardware substrate.
Something else that I’ve found in abundance is video games that have been in development for years before 2020 are releasing and they’ll have a theme of death. Being a grim reaper or assisting people to the other side.
I say this because we had 2020 and there’s covid-19 going on but these games would have been in development years before it even was on the horizon all release at the same time?
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