I would say that it is a desire for reverence that can be assured at most EFs, not by virtue of the form but rather the fact that its priests and congregation are largely self-selecting.
you’re probably the only one. I swore I’d never attend one.
This is pretty much what I was thinking. Also, the same qualities guarantee orthodoxy. In the modern day receiving faithful teaching and good spiritual guidance is very important. I’d assume that someone who happened to grow up with liberal catechesis, yet tried to be faithful, would be fed up with fighting against their teachers and wouldn’t want to search for a good parish. They’d rather go where they knew it would be orthodox. Due to the nature of the EF, a person knows exactly what they will find.
I am not sure we agree. I am saying that the EF is orthodox because it is self-selecting, not because of its nature. This is evident because irreverent Masses existed before the OF existed.
By nature I was referring to the people who would choose to attend such a parish. Sorry, for the poor word choice.
Then we do agree!
It might make it more tolerable to attend OF’s in my area, but I would probably still attend the EF every opportunity I got, there’s more to the Old Mass than “smells and bells”, at least for me.
I would hope that the opportunity to attend a Mass celebrated as the Church wishes would be far more than merely tolerable.
Why?
My experience is limited to only a couple of different TLM communities, but yes, there are quite a few young adults that attend the EF (of course, with that limited demographic group, many are away at college at any given time).
Could it be that college age people just aren’t interested in the Mass, period?
It seems to me (now I start to anger people) most of the young people who are actually concerned about God, their life, staying in a state of grace, and getting to heaven (prayer, penance, mortification, etc.) generally attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Read YoungTradCath’s post about how priests sometimes in the OF try to attract youth to Mass. Just my honest opinion.Could it be that college age people just aren’t interested in the Mass, period?
I think we need to be careful with making generalizations like this. Attendance to the ordinary or extraordinary is a matter of personal preference. The Masses are equal to each other. As a result, I’d imagine that an equal number of devout young people attend the ordinary form. We also should note that the smaller number of parishes offering the extraordinary form creates an appearance that more young adults attend there. In actuality I’d imagine this is because the larger number of ordinary form parishes keeps them spread out.It seems to me (now I start to anger people) most of the young people who are actually concerned about God, their life, staying in a state of grace, and getting to heaven (prayer, penance, mortification, etc.) generally attend the Traditional Latin Mass. Read YoungTradCath’s post about how priests sometimes in the OF try to attract youth to Mass. Just my honest opinion.
I would strongly disagree. In most Ordinary Form H. Masses, unfortunately sins and doctrine of the Church aren’t taught in the sermon (not that this is necessarily the time to teach) but, the people in the pew don’t know/and follow them if they do know. I didn’t know masturbation and viewing pornography was mortally sinful until I learned on my own. I promise you, if you walk into an Extraordinary Form parish and ask a teenager guy if masturbating and watching porn is sinful he will say yes. If you walk into an Ordinary Form parish and ask one; don’t expect him to say that it’s sinful. It isn’t that I hate the OF as many people probably think — the EF and OF both consecrate the Most Blessed Sacrament. Then again, we also need to think how many of youth are choosing to go to Holy Mass on Sunday by their own free will — I bet the youth at the EF would, but, the youth at the OF; I don’t know. It isn’t merely catechetical either, (even though many parishes refuse for some reason to teach orthodox, sound, Catholic teaching to their youth) it is also rubrical (the way the priest sacrifices or says the Mass.) Many priests today think they are attracting the kids and the young to church when they use music that has drums, guitars, and pianos; they aren’t. Many priests also think that when they make Mass more of a performance, more of an act, more entertaining that they are attracting young people. This sounds reasonable as who doesn’t enjoy being entertained? But, in reality it is insane. I am young, I know many people who are young. This pastoral plan isn’t working, the youth aren’t attracted to a Church where there is no rules because although we may be somewhat rebellious, we know deep down that rules are real; they are needed. The young are attracted to reverence and to beauty. When we start to return to churches looking like churches, sacred music sounding like sacred music, priests acting like priests, nuns acting like nuns, the laity acting like the laity, and the liturgy being reverent and beautiful; we will have a young Church full of many, but until than this will not happen. I don’t think it is coincidental that dioceses and religious orders that have returned to this basic authentic Catholic characterization have seminaries that are full, convents that are full, and guess what else; churches that are full of none other than young people. Please priests, please Bishops, even Cardinals, wake up. Things aren’t getting better, they are getting worse and they will not get better until this happens. I love the OF and the EF because both are valid and both can and should be reverent and beautiful as Holy Mother Church intends. Sacred Heart of Jesus, Have Mercy on us!
I can tell that you don’t hate the OF and in essence I agree with most of your post. I think the problem is that you seem to say the ordinary form is responsible for the problems. In actuality I’d say the problem is primarily catechetical (it’s a mistake to place blame on the rubrics, the only time problems occur is when they are intentionally altered) and due to parishioner attitudes. A large portion of those who lived through Vatican 2 misinterpreted the council. As a result, they thought they could improvise liturgically and had presented doctrine in a watered down fashion or failed to teach that which they disagreed with. The problem isn’t the OF, but with how parishioners are taught. Bad teaching can cause great harm to a parish. Since the people with these beliefs wouldn’t elect to attend the EF, those parishes have remained, for the most part, problem free. The Ordinary Form parishes have suffered from these attitudes, but I believe it would be a mistake to say most have, although we can say that it’s a large portion. I also, think we need to be careful saying what is or isn’t taught. While my youth group was more emotional based we did have a talk about the dangers of exposing ourselves to certain forms of entertainment. This was at a parish that I would label as mostly liberal. At the same parish we had two nuns (in full habits) come and speak of the need for confession and the dangers of mortal sin and Hell. Again, at this parish, the lay leadership was very liberal (though the priest was fairly orthodox). This shows that even in parishes that aren’t the best, good teachings can be heard, if the people listen. I have also experienced the Ordinary Form celebrated with great reverence and it was very beautiful. I think those who improvise and try to make the Mass “more relevant,” are those who chose to violate the rubrics in the first place. They see that their changes didn’t work and believe it’s because the youth want more changes. They don’t realize that the attempts to make the Mass relevant have actually rendered it irrelevant. But this has more to due with attitudes in specific parishes (probably a minority by now), not the Ordinary Form itself. Also, we see that the younger priests tend to celebrate the Mass more reverently and preach orthodoxy. In addition, more faithful catechetical material has been produced. As time passes, the problems are being fixed. Implementing a new council is difficult and would naturally cause temporary problems. Honestly, I have a hard time saying that these problems are widespread. It may be common to find small problems, but ones that are spiritually damaging are quite rare. Although, I think the area in which a person lives will affect their perception of the commonality of such issues. Problems would tend to be more common in liberal areas. But still I think 95% of issues aren’t spiritually dangerous. This is not to say that they are okay. I’m bothered by even the smallest alteration to the rubrics.
I don’t think that’s the case. I think they just don’t know! My experience is that young Christians/Catholics who form groups do it out of love for God, but also for the social/camaraderie experience. What I’ve seen in Catholic circles is that the mass to them is another social gathering where they can express their talents and all that other stuff. But I’ve also experience fallen away Catholics who say they just don’t like going to mass because it’s very banal or boring. In a way it has no sense of mystery and holiness. Some have even asked me why don’t priest talk about hell and all the stuff that scares one straight, instead all they talk about is how to be nice to each other. One thing about my generation is that we were brought up with NICE being pounded in our heads all our lives. We were raised by TV/internet so most of our imaginations went out the window. When we go to “banal” masses it just SEEMS the same as any other gathering. So when you put this so called gathering against gatherings such as parties, concerts, clubs, and sports events well I am afraid there is just no comparison. Yes, to someone who is schooled in Catholic thought knows very well that the Mass is the mass regardless of the form. But expecting for this generation to know that is like expecting a dog to sit on the command without ever being trained. Just wont happen.Could it be that college age people just aren’t interested in the Mass, period?